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View Full Version : Learned a new shot last night

Steve Lipsky
03-11-2003, 03:27 PM
I was practicing by myself last night and had a decent run ended because I did not know how to play the following shot:

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I was left with this immediately after a break shot (there were more balls up than I put on the WEI diagram).

I know the combination goes, but never having practiced the shot, I was going to have to guess. I hit the first ball pretty thinly into the rail (in other words, I hit the 4 fairly full - about 3/4 of a ball).

I didn't even come close. I began to practice it, and started experimenting with where to hit that first object ball. And now I'm totally sick. The shot is a complete hanger. I basically aim to hit the first ball much thinner than my brain is telling me (I was now hitting it about 1/2 full).

I made it 10 out of 10 after I learned it... so I guess I should just be happy that now I have a new shot in my arsenal.

- Steve

nAz
03-11-2003, 04:17 PM
Funny i played a shot just like that two nights ago in a 1 pocket game i made it but found it very difficult to aim, maybe like you i should practice it a few dozen times /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Steve is it true that you once ran over 14 balls?? /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif
dude like you need more weapons in your arsenal!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Popcorn
03-11-2003, 05:20 PM
There is a simple system for rail first shots that I know you know, but I will show it anyway.
You measure from the point on the object ball you want to hit to the rail. Then go through the rail an equal distance and draw a line to the cue ball. Where the line crosses the rail point is where you hit to make the object ball rail first. It is worth knowing. It provides a very accurate reference point rather then guessing.

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Paul_Mon
03-12-2003, 06:18 AM
In the book "Winning 1 Pocket" they show an example of the system you've described below. With one exception. They make note of the fact that the mirror line is NOT the edge of the rail as you say. Instead it is the worn area on the cloth about 1 1/8" away from the rail, see Wei data below. I don't have the book in front of me but when I get home I'll edit this to include the page number. One other point that is well made in this book and by others is that this system is a guide. Too many factors can influence a bank or kick. Steve's method of practicing until it's automatic is vital for determining whether to use these shots in a match.

Paul Mon

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<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> There is a simple system for rail first shots that I know you know, but I will show it anyway.
You measure from the point on the object ball you want to hit to the rail. Then go through the rail an equal distance and draw a line to the cue ball. Where the line crosses the rail point is where you hit to make the object ball rail first. It is worth knowing. It provides a very accurate reference point rather then guessing.

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eg8r
03-12-2003, 06:47 AM
I think I am getting confused. How does either of your two examples relate to what Steve was showing? I thought from Steve's description, he is hitting the impeding ball first and then hitting the second ball. The two of you have shown examples of hitting the rail first.

Am I wrong Steve? If not, are you using a lot of follow on the shot you are describing, and if I am visualizing correctly how does the first ball have time to get out of the way before the cue ball comes forward?

eg8r

JohnnyP
03-12-2003, 07:27 AM
The first one is a combo, where the first object ball has to hit the rail first, so it can "cut" the second ball in.

The second example just illustrates how to guess a starting point.

Paul_Mon
03-12-2003, 07:29 AM
Popcorn and I described banking methods to determine how to hit the first ball so that it rebounds into the second ball.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> I think I am getting confused. How does either of your two examples relate to what Steve was showing? I thought from Steve's description, he is hitting the impeding ball first and then hitting the second ball. The two of you have shown examples of hitting the rail first.

Am I wrong Steve? If not, are you using a lot of follow on the shot you are describing, and if I am visualizing correctly how does the first ball have time to get out of the way before the cue ball comes forward?

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

Steve Lipsky
03-12-2003, 09:17 AM
Hi eg8r. Their examples are sort of corollaries to mine. Along the same lines, but not exactly the same shot.

I'm not putting force follow on this to miss a double kiss. If you try it, you'll see that there's really no kiss there. I guess it is an optical illusion, though.

- Steve

Popcorn
03-12-2003, 09:40 AM
I have never seen it described in a book, it is just passed on information. Like any system it is more of a reference guide and there are many variables. It is much better then a random guess though. I actually use this shot in one pocket all the time if the shot is easy and I am too straight in on the ball. See below. Thank you for the correction. When I am showing stuff like this to someone, it is always in person so it is easy to demonstrate how it is done. I think I may have trouble expressing my self in print some times. Thanks for the added info.We just want to be sure that anyone wanting to learn the shot understand it.

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SpiderMan
03-12-2003, 10:23 AM
Getting a little off the original topic, but as long as we're talking about rail-first shots I have 2 cents' worth.

When I talk about aiming a rail-first shot I refer to the "dirt track" next to the rail as being the indicator of the playing-surface edge from which the ball rebounds. You also have to remember that you are calculating where you want the CENTER of the cue ball (the point where it touches the table) to be when it hits the object ball.

Taking all that into account, this system is very accurate and easy for a soft hit with a little running english. If you need, for example, to apply a little draw also (for position), you will drastically overcut (hit too thin) the object ball if you don't adjust by hitting further along the rail (closer to the object ball). Follow will have the opposite effect, just not as severe. You have to shoot these a lot to get a feel for the correct compensation.

As an extension of this system, if you find you cannot hit the correct point on the "dirt track" because of blocking balls, you can also aim to hit long or short and still make the shot by using top or bottom to warp the path of the cueball after rail contact. Again, this compensation requires beforehand familiarity.

SpiderMan

Rod
03-12-2003, 10:55 AM
Paul,
The mirror system is based on the gutter line which is 1/2 balls width from the cushion nose. Depending on the table conditions new cloth etc changes the aim point a small amount. My tendacy was to hit those shots a little fat like Steve did on his first try. The table conditions definately make a difference. Pages 180 and 181 describe the mirror system for rail first shots. In the first example you aim to the center of the mirror ball(the 5 ball) to hit the center of the o/b. These lines aren't exact but gives everyone the concept of the system. I know it has helped me on those type of shots.

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eg8r
03-12-2003, 11:12 AM
Thanks.

I love learning new shots like this, and I will try it out and see what happens. It is funny to see people's faces when you call a shot that they don't see and you execute it perfectly. They almost unanimously always call it luck, even if you told them exactly what was going to happen. Mabye they say "luck" is because I was lucky to execute in the fashion I said. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif Oh well.

Thanks for the shot.

eg8r

eg8r
03-12-2003, 11:14 AM
AHHH!!! I see the light. See, I told you I was confused. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif Thank you.

eg8r

Alfie
03-12-2003, 01:45 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> When I talk about aiming a rail-first shot I refer to the "dirt track" next to the rail as being the indicator of the playing-surface edge from which the ball rebounds. You also have to remember that you are calculating where you want the CENTER of the cue ball (the point where it touches the table) to be when it hits the object ball. <hr /></blockquote> In other words, aim for the mirror image of the ghost ball, the *mirror* being the rail gutter.
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SpiderMan
03-12-2003, 02:01 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Alfie:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> When I talk about aiming a rail-first shot I refer to the "dirt track" next to the rail as being the indicator of the playing-surface edge from which the ball rebounds. You also have to remember that you are calculating where you want the CENTER of the cue ball (the point where it touches the table) to be when it hits the object ball. <hr /></blockquote> In other words, aim for the mirror image of the ghost ball, the *mirror* being the rail gutter. <hr /></blockquote>

Yes, the aim is center of cueball to mirrored center of ghost ball, with the mirror axis being the "dirt track", "rail track", "rail gutter", etc. This is the geometrically-correct aim that you use as a starting point before compensation for all the modifying factors.

On close shots you can use it without compensation if you shoot soft with a little running english. This is because the cueball path will be pretty true and the natural english will be in a direction to "roll" off the object ball and avoid throwing it wide of the pocket.

SpiderMan

Rod
03-12-2003, 02:12 PM
Thats the way I view it. That dirt track deal reminded me of motorcycles.