View Full Version : 14mm tips question
03-12-2003, 04:47 PM
Are 14mm tips used only for the break or are they good to play with too? Has anybody ever used one on a playing cue ?
That's geting up there in size. I'm sure someone has played with a tip that size but rare. Some play at 13.5mm. I play with a 13 1/4mm. It would take some getting use to.
03-12-2003, 05:37 PM
Heubeler's SP uses 14mm if I'm not mistaken, and it plays really well. I'll have to mic it when I get home to verify that it is actually 14mm, but that's always been my understanding...sid~~~owned three over my time
03-13-2003, 06:55 AM
I had a Willie Hoppe cue that Pete Balner[Palmer Cues]made me two 14 mil shafts for. There was no deflection in that war club. Everybody who tried the cue wanted to buy it. I sold it to Ray Guillbault of Conn when Pete made me my imitation Balabushka.####
03-13-2003, 06:59 AM
I've seen a couple of players play with a 14mm cue. Pretty good shots too. They looked like they were shooting with a broomstick.
03-13-2003, 07:26 AM
A guy that used to come into my poolroom, who I know you knew, Danny Gartner, played with what seemed bigger then a 14. A lot of players back then played with 13 1/2. For what it is worth, I remember Lassiter saying he thought players played with shafts that were too fat. He said he thought they were OK for games where you just push balls around like straight pool and one pocket. But you needed a smaller shaft to play 9-ball. He played with about a 12 1/2 as did Mosconi. I think Jose Parica plays with a fat shaft also.
03-13-2003, 10:19 AM
I've got a 14mm on my break cue (Bob Frey). It hits like a ton, too.
But IMO, you'd have to have some pretty long fingers to be able to hold that 14mm and not everybody does.
03-13-2003, 11:43 PM
I've played with a 14 mm tip. To be honest with you, I really didn't notice that much difference. I made it as an experiment, as a coach that I respect claimed that it would help students to hit "centerball" more easily, and that it was "more forgiving".
I didn't really find that to be true.
Now a very large tip might make it a bit easier to FIND centerball. When you place the tip up next to the cueball, there is less distance from the edge of the ball to the outer edge of each side of the tip. So it might be a bit easier to judge if it is in the middle or not.
Contrast that to a tip that came down to a virtual pin-point. The tip wouldn't be any help in finding the center of the ball. You would have to judge the center for yourself with your eyes, and then aim the tip at that "point".
On the other hand, any time you wanted to hit a specific point on the cueball (anywhere) a smaller tip will be more accurate.
As for more "forgiving", I didn't really find this either.
What I found was that the amount of accidental spin produced when striking a cueball off-center is determined only by the shaft centerline offset, and the tip curvature. If the tip curvature is a nickel, then it doesn't matter what diameter the tip actually is. If the shaft is displaced 2mm to the right of center, then a nickel curvature tip will contact the cueball at the exact same place regardless if the tip diameter is 10 mm or 14 mm.
But what I did find was that there was a definite tendancy to stay towards the center of the ball with the bigger tip. That appears to be because the bigger tip always looks like it is farther from center than it really is. So you never seem to hit as much spin as you intended.
This might be considered more forgiving for beginners I guess. But I prefer to get the spin that I wanted.
Personally, I use a 12.0 mm tip with a dime curvature.
To sum up:
I don't see any advantage to using a 14mm tip for a playing cue. But it can and has been done.
Mosconi played with a l2.50 mm tip, I play with l2.75, and the majority of cues sold today are l3.00 mm. l4 is too big, don't go there, this is a mistake. Fast Larry
03-15-2003, 09:11 AM
I play with a 13mm and find that to be about right for me. I feel that 14mm makes it too hard to get up under the ball on draw work. With the 13mm my tip touches the cloth (almost) so the 14mm was actually rubbing the felt.
03-16-2003, 11:22 PM
A few simple calculations assuming starting with a nickel curvature will show that you are not quite correct with your analysis. A 13mm tip will come nowhere near the cloth when the tip is set for maximum draw. In fact, even a 14mm tip will not touch the cloth!
To touch the cloth when the tip is set for maxiumum draw, you would need a tip with over a 15 mm diameter! Or, you would need a very flat tip.
I found that I could get excellent draw with a 14mm tip. No different than I could with a 13mm or my 12 mm tip.
That's not really the issue.
The real issue is that the big tip is just less precise when trying to strike a specific spot on the cueball.
That's why you see Snooker players and 3 cushion players use smaller tips. They want precise tip placement.
The only reason that pool players use such big tips (when compared to the above mentioned other cue sports) is the insistance on the "Pro" taper.
The other two cue sports use a conical taper to maintain shaft stiffness with a smaller tip diameter.
But due to tradition and the insistance on the closed bridge, pool players seem to be stuck with the long cylindrical shaft.
And it is this type of shaft "taper" that really sets the tip diameter, not any other form of playability or functional issue I'm afraid.
Personally, I see no advantage to a large tip.
But that's my opinion.
-12.0 mm tip user....
To Tony M, everything you are doing, I am doing something different. Hell who knows, you may be right, I may be wrong. You might try some different things, maybe some of them will work. It can't hurt to experiment around.
The tip is the most important thing on your cue, and the thing most know the least about. 5 gets you 8 you are now playing with an Elk Master, put on a Triangle. Alter the nickle shape to a dime, you will get more action on the ball. The smaller tip draws better that the larger one.
Snooker uses a 10 mm tip becuase they use a very small ball, 2 l/6". What is weird is there is this Korean thing in billiards where a lot of these guys are using the same thing with the 65mm billiard ball. Europeans tend to use larger more standard tips. The smaller tip, will fall apart faster than the larger one.
For years I used ll.50, then went to l2, now I float around l2& l/4 to l2.5. I use a special shaft I designed, it gets fat quick, and it opens up my closed loop bridge, so what, the ball is gone, why should I sacrifice performance with a pencil thin shaft, when I can have real spine & power, and just let my index finger open on the follow through stroke.
Billiard players dont have any problems with this, only pool players do, it's a education thing.
Best Wishes, Fast Larry
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