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View Full Version : Mastering those dang long cuts



bluewolf
03-14-2003, 09:30 AM
I changed my alignment some and my preshot a little and the cb is striking the ob where I aim. But I am not seeing the angles on the long cuts right.So at least it is not my stroke but I am still major p*ssed off at myself.

I have really been beating myself up over these. In my head, I just HAVE to be able to do these at 80% by the end of August. That would be the one year anniversary date of when i started pool serious and had my first lesson with Scott Lee.

Hy busband said to set out shots and do the hard ones first and then eventually they would start going in.

It fact it was recommended by someone that I practice long 90% cuts, that if I could do those I could do anything. But honestly, I am more likely to get one of those than a long cut surrounded by green.

When I talked to Larry, he emphasized the importance of building positive experiences so that the brain will have the right information to make the shot accurately.

I am so frustrated. I do practice everyday but find myself not wanting to face this failure over and over and have even thought of just quitting pool and going back to karate. I know I wont but sometimes I feel this way.

I can do the cuts pretty good that are up to 4 ft away. But when I see that 6-7 foot cut, it looks so far away and I am plagued by self doubt and I miss 4 times out of 5.

Not being able to make these shots is seriously keeping me from being a good pool player.

Does anybody have drills and/or suggestions?

Laura

PS Scott, when you come I want to know how to do all of the cuts and most of the banks /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

TomBrooklyn
03-14-2003, 10:10 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr> When I talked to Larry, he emphasized the importance of building positive experiences so that the brain will have the right information to make the shot accurately. <hr /></blockquote>I've found the same thing as Larry. Also, I've found that successfully making balls makes the game fun, builds confidence, and gradually leads to the execution of more difficult shots. <blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr>I am so frustrated. I do practice everyday but find myself not wanting to face this failure over and over and have even thought of just quitting pool. <hr /></blockquote>I would feel fustrated also if for some reason I forced myself to continually attempt shots beyond my ability which I would naturally miss a great deal of. However, I don't impose such an ordeal on myself. I start where I can consistantly make the ball and then gradually increase the length and difficulty as I get grooved. When I reach my limit, I work below or around that area, building my skill incrementally. If I become fustrated, I stop practicing play games or just stop playing. This way I avoid boredom and fustration and I notice little gradual improvements in my game all the time and I enjoy the feeling of accomplishment I get from that.

Sid_Vicious
03-14-2003, 10:26 AM
You won't like this answer, but my feelings are that you are not stroking right. With long cuts, especially rail balls, you need to have a good, level COMMITTED stroke through the ball. That's not to mean a power punch, it is a dissection across the dead center of your CB and it allows no mental hesitation, hence the word committed stroke. You'll get it, and when you do those slices into corner pockets and near 90 sides will be a pleasure, not a pain...sid~~~a finish on the felt here might cause grief, copy Allison's finish for these BW

Wally_in_Cincy
03-14-2003, 10:27 AM
I don't know any 2's that can make those shots.

Tom gave you the best advice:

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote TomBrooklyn:</font><hr>
...I start where I can consistantly make the ball and then gradually increase the length and difficulty as I get grooved. When I reach my limit, I work below or around that area, building my skill incrementally....<hr /></blockquote>

Keep practicing. Good luck.

wolfsburg2
03-14-2003, 11:34 AM
i have trouble with these also. what i have done to try and get a little better, is to really focus on my fundamentals. make sure feet are plaaced right, i get low on the ball, make sure my bridge is solid, nice loose grip on the butt, and follow through keeping your head down. i find that on real tough cuts, i try to use "body english" which never helps. good luck.

Scott Lee
03-14-2003, 11:47 AM
Laura...I'll be at your house in less than 10 days, and we'll have plenty of time to work on anything and everything...including thin cuts and bank shots. I have to agree with sid on the issue of "it's the stroke that matters most". When you have complete trust in your stroke, it doesn't matter how close or far the OB is from the CB. When you have doubts, the long shots naturally make you more anxious, resulting in missing frequently. BTW, I still need directions from VF to your house. Hope to see you in VF. I'll be there Friday and Saturday, and then heading to your house our day together on Sunday.

Scott

bluewolf
03-14-2003, 12:48 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr> Laura...I'll be at your house in less than 10 days, and we'll have plenty of time to work on anything and everything...including thin cuts and bank shots. I have to agree with sid on the issue of "it's the stroke that matters most". When you have complete trust in your stroke, it doesn't matter how close or far the OB is from the CB. When you have doubts, the long shots naturally make you more anxious, resulting in missing frequently. BTW, I still need directions from VF to your house. Hope to see you in VF. I'll be there Friday and Saturday, and then heading to your house our day together on Sunday.

Scott <hr /></blockquote>

Hey scott, remember Joe, the guy who let us play on his 9 ft table before? Well he offered it again so that is where we will be playing. Do you know how to get there? I will get directions again because I dont remember either.

We will be at vf fri evening and saturday, then coming back for my lesson with you.

I look forward to it very much and all that I will learn.

sid, I do appreciate your honesty and wally too but unless scott reveals differently, I dont think it is my stroke in general. But when I get nervous, that impacts my stroke of course.

I have made those long cut shots.I was making them 30% before I got sick last fall for 3 months and back then I was practicing all of the time. When I started to recover, I had lost something in terms of pool. At the present it seems like 30% of the ones I miss are due to negative self talk, the other 70% due to lack of experience. The final result is I make currently about 10%, pretty awful. But if I could get my head straight, it looks like I could make 50%. There are a good number, the other 50% that due to lack of experience I do not see the angle correctly.

Tom had a great point about working on the things I am successful with and moving on slowly. I will do that to have a good attitude.

Thankyou wally for telling me that a two cannot make those shots. That statement did more good for me that you will ever know.It puts that good old determined fierce 'Taurus' steel back in my backbone where it belongs.

The mountain might be high and it might be slippery and full of briars, and it might take a long time to get to the top. But, to this Taurus, after defeating many opponents in kumite and winning many trophies, it would really be assinine to allow myself to be defeated by a bunch of sh*tty little balls on a piece of slate. /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Laura

bluewolf
03-14-2003, 04:50 PM
I feel really dumb now. Things are getting much better. My stroke is sure, my preshot is good, my alignment is good, I stay down on the shot and follow and freeze. I was messing up the ghostball aim which caused the long shots to miss fat. /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Laura

jjinfla
03-15-2003, 08:30 AM
Laura, Why are you beating yourself over the head because you can't make a very difficult shot? You just are not ready for that shot. You say you studied Karate. Would you get in the ring with a 3rd degree black belt and feel bad that he kicked your ass? It's the same thing you are doing by trying impossibly hard shots. As Tom says, as a 2, you are not expected to make those shots. 5's and 6' have trouble with that shot. But if you ever want to become a 3 or 4 you better start concentrating on making your 2 and 3 foot shots. I suspect your "make" percentage on those shots must be around 50-60%. (Otherwise you would not still be a 2) Work on getting that percentage up in the 90's. But if you feel you must practice that hard cut shot then do it at the short end of the table. The only difference being that the CB travels 2 feet instead of 6 feet. Shoot 10 balls into one corner, then go around the table and shoot the 10 balls into the other corner, do this 10 times a day for 10 to 20 days and record how many out of the 100 balls you make each day. Keep at it until you are making 90 to 95 balls each time. Jake~~~would rather walk around a wall than try to run thru it.

Deeman
03-15-2003, 08:51 AM
Laura,

I, like everyone else think you have set some pretty high targets for your skill level. If you are frustrated with the long cuts, just set up the shots and shoot them repeatly without judgement as to if you make them or not, just try to learn each time, to get the feel of releasing your stroke cleanly and smoothly. In time, you will find that your "memory" will let you know what feels right coupled with where the object ball goes.

As well, some of us will never have the keen eyesight and excellent hand/eye coordination to make those killer, length of the table, thin cuts. Maybe, just maybe, your game will be learning (in cases where you control the cueball) to play lights out position to mimimize those type of shots or return a killer safety rather than a spectacular shot. Most of us will forever have to leave some shots to Earl and Allison.

Dee /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Sid_Vicious
03-15-2003, 08:59 AM
That's really the best advice I've read so far. I had one student a while ago, as green as green gets, never picked up a cue as I understood it. Well her fundamentals were really exciting to watch develop, and yet it just severely bothered her that she couldn't make cuts, nor understand why. That issue continously pulled her off the roadmap of just making balls and understanding getting shape, and the study of pool disappeared from her weekly routine. My point is the same as yours Jake...if you are rated at a 2 BW, then there's a reason you don't make these cuts regularly. Hell I can tell you how it's supposed to be done but even I have a modest success rate for those cuts when the pressure is on. Maybe consider waiting until you are a 4 or a 5 before getting so focused on this segment of your game. Otherwise, Jake's adivce of backing up to "baby steps" on the short end sounds like a good second choice. It really makes sense, and protects you from sporadically losing some of your current consistent shots and REALLY getting frustrated...sid

bluewolf
03-15-2003, 09:00 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jjinfla:</font><hr> Laura, Why are you beating yourself over the head because you can't make a very difficult shot? You just are not ready for that shot. You say you studied Karate. Would you get in the ring with a 3rd degree black belt and feel bad that he kicked your ass? It's the same thing you are doing by trying impossibly hard shots. As Tom says, as a 2, you are not expected to make those shots. 5's and 6' have trouble with that shot. But if you ever want to become a 3 or 4 you better start concentrating on making your 2 and 3 foot shots. I suspect your "make" percentage on those shots must be around 50-60%. (Otherwise you would not still be a 2) Work on getting that percentage up in the 90's. But if you feel you must practice that hard cut shot then do it at the short end of the table. The only difference being that the CB travels 2 feet instead of 6 feet. Shoot 10 balls into one corner, then go around the table and shoot the 10 balls into the other corner, do this 10 times a day for 10 to 20 days and record how many out of the 100 balls you make each day. Keep at it until you are making 90 to 95 balls each time. Jake~~~would rather walk around a wall than try to run thru it. <hr /></blockquote>

Thanks Jake!!! That is very good advice. I was missing about 30-40% on hard short cuts. The hard long shot I am talking about is not a extreme cut. It is simply when the ob is out from the pocket and surrounded by green.I do not expect to make a shot that is a 70-90 cut so these were not anything I was worrying about because I am only about 5% on those. I was trying to shoot by feel before I was ready.

Yesterday I tried a new technique for aiming and they were going in, the short ones and the long ones too.I was so excited. This morning I picked up my stick and with no warmup, shot 3 long cuts and they zoomed right in. I was so excited.

This has given me the motivation and feel that 'there is a light at the end of the tunnel and it is not a train'.

I know that this will take time, but at least now I know how to aim and I wont be a two forever. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Laura

bluewolf
03-15-2003, 09:22 AM
I used to aim better. Someone told me it was better to play by feel. So I started just standing behind the cb, looking at the angle and guessing. My game went down, such as it was. I had developed a saavy though so still was winning quite a few matches. The last two matches I lost to very strong threes but hey I did win one game against each one of them /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif I have not lost against any twos for a long time so I guess that is pretty okay. Amazing considering the messed up strategy I was using.

So now I have found an aiming method and even if I am a two for awhile more, if I see improvement, I will feel good.

We have this dynamite 4 on our team and she is so accurate on many of the shots. I decided to try her aiming method and it seems like da bomb. ww also showed me something else which helps on the line from the cb to the ob.
So yeah I am psyched. I just know I am going to playin pool all day.

Thanks everybody for you suggestions and compassion

Laura

btw jake, i know you were using karate to illustrate a point but...i beat all of the men black belts exept the instructor at our school and all of the women black belts. When ever I went to a new dojo I was told to be easy on their students because I fought full contact /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif of course the black belt men at big tournaments, some could beat me.

03-15-2003, 10:32 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr> I used to aim better. Someone told me it was better to play by feel. So I started just standing behind the cb, looking at the angle and guessing. My game went down, such as it was. I had developed a saavy though so still was winning quite a few matches. The last two matches I lost to very strong threes but hey I did win one game against each one of them /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif I have not lost against any twos for a long time so I guess that is pretty okay. Amazing considering the messed up strategy I was using.

So now I have found an aiming method and even if I am a two for awhile more, if I see improvement, I will feel good.

We have this dynamite 4 on our team and she is so accurate on many of the shots. I decided to try her aiming method and it seems like da bomb. ww also showed me something else which helps on the line from the cb to the ob.
So yeah I am psyched. I just know I am going to playin pool all day.

Thanks everybody for you suggestions and compassion

Laura

btw jake, i know you were using karate to illustrate a point but...i beat all of the men black belts exept the instructor at our school and all of the women black belts. When ever I went to a new dojo I was told to be easy on their students because I fought full contact /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif of course the black belt men at big tournaments, some could beat me. <hr /></blockquote> <font color="red"> </font color>

<font color="red"> </font color> WOW

bluewolf
03-15-2003, 04:14 PM
Where ya been, ALF? This board just isnt the same without your .....uh....comments. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Laura