PDA

View Full Version : Snooker players vs pool players



L.S. Dennis
03-27-2003, 12:51 PM
I just got through reading an article written by Fran entitled 'Is Snooker the Secret?'. In her piece she goes through all the different facets of the game in which she thinks that snooker players are superior, /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif stance cue position, stroke etc. There's even a quote "Many pool players are quite an undisciplined lot. They want to know the quickest way to win".

My question is, is there anything that 'pool players do that is better than what a snooker player does?
Just asking!

Fred Agnir
03-27-2003, 01:39 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote L.S. Dennis:</font><hr> I just got through reading an article written by Fran entitled 'Is Snooker the Secret?'. In her piece she goes through all the different facets of the game in which she thinks that snooker players are superior, /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif stance cue position, stroke etc. There's even a quote "Many pool players are quite an undisciplined lot. They want to know the quickest way to win".

My question is, is there anything that 'pool players do that is better than what a snooker player does?
Just asking! <hr /></blockquote>Of course. When Karen Corr sought out help, she got together with the Fuscos. Several things that have grown in her game as a direct result of that are her kicks and her cueball patterns.

Look at Allison's game compared to pre-WPBA days. She now stands higher, often bends both legs, jacks up the cue a little, all in the name of a little more power for those power shots.

They are two different games with different goals. IMO, the game itself doesn't make the difference as far as discipline goes. IMO, it's a cultural thing.

Fred

NH_Steve
03-27-2003, 03:33 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote L.S. Dennis:</font><hr>
My question is, is there anything that 'pool players do that is better than what a snooker player does?
Just asking! <hr /></blockquote>Well pool players certainly bank a whole lot better than snooker players. Apparently banks are pretty rare in snooker?

What about English -- or should I say side? Some pool players (like Nick Varner) seem to go pretty light on the left &amp; right spin on the cueball, while some really juice it up (like Efren) -- even on soft shots. With the little bitty pockets on a twelve foot table, I would assume snooker players avoid side, in the interest of improving accuracy. Even a 4" pocket must seem like a bucket when they hit the pool tables.

'Course mine are more 'style of play' comments, not physical technique. I do know that I would like to improve my consistent accuracy just a bit -- maybe I could learn from the snooker players /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

thecardman
03-27-2003, 04:51 PM
Let me see, what are pool players better at than snooker players? Well, bank shots, kick shots, 3 or 4-rail position to make the next ball, jump shots (illeagal in snooker) and playing shots with lots of side (sorry, English) on the cue ball. There's 5 to start off with.

I always find it interesting when snooker players first try out an "American" pool table (here in the UK smaller - 4' x 7' - pool tables based more on snooker tables are most common) they comment on the size of the pockets. Then they try out 9-ball and realise that it isn't as easy as it first looks, so come out with excuses such as "the cloth is too fast" or "the balls are too big"

Just my thoughts!

thecardman
/ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Deniel
03-27-2003, 09:03 PM
And don't forget the break, snooker player are used to having a very light break when they come to pool they're just not used to breaking the balls hard.

qSHAFT
03-27-2003, 09:26 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote thecardman:</font><hr> Let me see, what are pool players better at than snooker players? Well, bank shots, kick shots, 3 or 4-rail position to make the next ball, jump shots (illeagal in snooker) and playing shots with lots of side (sorry, English) on the cue ball.<hr /></blockquote>

I would debate your first 3 points, that pool players are better at bank, kick and multirail position.

Banking into the side pocket is faily common in snooker as the effective pocket opening on the side is large that way. I have a friend who is primarily a snooker player who makes 80% of his three cushion banks on a pool table (we make him do three cushions or more on the black in 8 ball or there is no competetion playing against him).

Kick shots happen all the time in snooker (the game is called snooker after all and you can't jump). Snooker players are far superiour kickers. The only difference is that in snooker you have no cushion requirement, so they are more likely to do a multirail kick to touch a ball and leave it safe rather than pot it. I don't think it would take much adjustment to try potting it on the much easier pockets.

Multirail position is used all the time in snooker and they don't fear going four cushions. This is a simple side effect of not being able to juice the cue ball up with as much english, so they prefer multirail position to get there "naturally". Remember that the end game of snooker (potting the colours) is the same concept as nine ball, so they know how to get around.

Also it is dangerous to think that snooker players don't know how to use english, they are highly proficient with it but have very few instances where it is useful cause they play natural angle and perfect speed, but in a squeeze you'll see it pulled out of the bag.

Cheers - qSHAFT (wishes he could play snooker /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif).

Barbara
03-27-2003, 09:44 PM
Sorry I have to play the Devil's Advocate here, but from seeing Karen Corr and Kim Shaw all just a little too much (if there is SUCH a thing) over the course of four years, what they DO have over pool players is consistency of mechanics.

I have really yet to see any ten successful pool players shoot with the same stance and stroke that snooker players do.

Barbara~~~now working on her step into the shot... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

L.S. Dennis
03-27-2003, 10:35 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Barbara:</font><hr> Sorry I have to play the Devil's Advocate here, but from seeing Karen Corr and Kim Shaw all just a little too much (if there is SUCH a thing) over the course of four years, what they DO have over pool players is consistency of mechanics.

I have really yet to see any ten successful pool players shoot with the same stance and stroke that snooker players do.

Barbara~~~now working on her step into the shot... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Barbara,
This is more or less what I was getting out of Fran's article. If anyone cares to read it, it was in the May 1999 issue of Billiard Digest on page 24.

bigbro6060
03-27-2003, 10:46 PM
Yes when first playing a game of 9ball there are some skills that snooker players lack and these do include breaking, just getting used to the angles of a 9ft table and maybe banking/kicking

but trust me, given a bit of time, they learn and adapt fast ! But The Snooker players in their prime have little incentive to play 9ball, there is exponentially more money in snooker

the players who are over the hill for snooker do sometimes play 9ball (e.g. Cliff Thornburn and Steve davis). Often they can get to a stage where they are competitive with some of the top players. Steve has beaten both Efren and Earl, that's not bad ! I'd like to see an over the hill 9ball player (e.g. Mike Siegal, Nick Varner) try and compete with the current top snooker players at snooker !

Some of the top snooker players did try their hand at 9ball in the world champs this year . Mark Williams and Paul Hunter were two. They didn't do badly at all and they would have devoted next to no time to the game. Mark's break was appauling but he still qualified out of the group stage. If he devoted a year fully to 9ball, things would be much different

Steve Davis who i believe is the most qualified person on this earth to talk about the differences between the two games states that the potting in 9ball is so much easier that it becomes totally about position for a snooker player playing 9ball. Generally given an open table a snooker player will rarely miss. It is the break and the tactical game which enable the dedicated 9ball players to overcome inexperienced at 9ball snooker players.

I'm serius guys, get some videos of the top snooker players in action, it's damm impressive !

TonyM
03-28-2003, 12:07 AM
"My question is, is there anything that 'pool players do that is better than what a snooker player does?"

I'd say:

- bank balls
- use mucho sidespin for position even on long shots (a definite no-no on the snooker table)

- jump balls (it's illegal in snooker)

-jacked up shots with power

-multi rail position shots
-masse shots

- moving the cueball long distances shot after shot

kicks as used in nineball (snooker players can kick well, but there is no requirement to drive the cueball or object ball to the rail)

-carom shots

anyways, you get the idea.

Snooker players are better potters, and play excellent no-rail and one rail position without the use of sidespin.

Pool players are better at using spin to manipulate the cueball, at using multiple rails and all of the specialty shots that come up in pool.

As such, snooker puts a premium on technique, while pool requires a bit more knowledge (similar to the difference between 3C and pool btw).

Hence top snooker players are all young, while good pool players can still compete into their fifties.

Tony
-snooker and pool player....

03-28-2003, 01:06 AM
I played snooker the first 5 years ('88-'93). Then quit, and began again in 1999, and since 2000 play only US pool.

Snooker players kick well. But no knowledge of diamond systems and such, naturally.

Snooker players have good basic cueing technique, ie fundamentals. You really need that!

Pool players of the 14.1 variety can pocket up to 100 balls in succession. You can be pretty good in snooker w/o the skill for that! I played a decent pool player (I think I could beat him any day in pool now) a few years ago, for one frame of snooker. He scored 64 on his first scoring visit, though he had never really played the game. This was on club pockets, not pro-cut, of course!

Also combinations (and the throw n' squirt stuff) are a lot better known amongst B class pool players.

Snooker is based on set patterns (with all the balls on their spots etc). So for example safe playing is often easy (except for the distance).

L.S. Dennis
03-28-2003, 09:47 AM
On the question of stance, in Fran's article she says: "American books on pool recommend the classic 45 degree anngel stance with the weight distributed evenly on both legs" Then she goes on to say; "Snooker players stand at about a 75 to 80 degree angle relative to to their cue sticks with their weight distributed mostley on their back legs".

I'm not sure that this is a better way to stand although she goes on to talk about the fact that the cue is held more closely to the body therefore the body acting as a constant guide etc.

I still like the 45 degree angle!

thecardman
03-28-2003, 04:26 PM
qSHAFT

Just read your post and there are a few points I feel that I should clarify.

First off, when I mention Kick Shots, I am meaning in the way that the 9-ballers play them - with intent to pocket a ball, not to just rest up against a ball as in the majority of cases in snooker.

Granted, snooker players are fantastic at getting out of snookers using 3 or 4 rails, but how often (other than ultra-offensive players such as Ronnie O'Sullivan) do you see 3 or 4-rail position on a snooker table? With you being an Aussie, I am certain you will have played at least a little and will know how difficult it is to make the cueball do what you can make it do on a pool table.

During the colours, the players will generally only try for one-rail position, especially when the balls are on their spots - which is more often than not. Also, with the balls on their spots, you can practice the routine potting of the balls, something that is not quite possible in 9-ball (talk about stating the obvious! sorry!).

With regards to bank shots, to the corner pockets the pool players win hands-down - especially if they are One Pocket players - but when it comes down to the side pockets, it is too close to call. I don't know how much snooker you get on Austrailian TV, but there have been a few players in the last couple of tournaments unafraid of playing bank shots. The commentators (generally retired pro snooker players from the '80s) cannot quite grasp that these young players are playing bank shots - and meaning them! It'll be interesting to see what happens during the Worlds in a couple of weeks.

Oh, and BigBro, I would not quite call Varner over-the-hill (or Sigel for that matter!) Varner is still regularly kicking the asses of players half his age. Sigel would probably be doing the same if he hadn't retired years ago (actually, here's an idea - let's try and get Matchroom to give Mike Sigel an invite to play in this year's World 9-Ball Championships in July! I don't think he would take it up, but it would be REALLY interesing to find out!). These guys have forgotten more about the game than either of us EVER will learn in our entire lives! Credit where credit is due, OK?

Sorry about the slight tirade (sp?). I just wanted to clarify something there and went off on a couple of tangents. But, as always, just my thoughts!

thecardman
/ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Popcorn
03-28-2003, 06:03 PM
Given a short time a top snooker player will be playing pool at high level and could easily compete with top pool players. I cannot say that about pool players playing snooker.

Brent
03-29-2003, 06:30 AM
Hi. Well I just wanted to say that before u think pool players are so much better and so on..take a look at these clips right --&gt;here&lt;-- (http://newssearch.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/snooker/world_champs_2002/1966331.stm)
Im not saying that snooker is a better game or something. I play pool myself..Im just saying that the game has style and respect good players cuz snooker needs mad skills.