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Wally_in_Cincy
03-27-2003, 01:02 PM
This quote is culled from Laura "Don Quixote" bluewolf's thread about her quest for Fivedom:

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr>

I agree but sometimes there is not a good safe and the bank is less risky in terms of leaving the opponent good than the safe. Then there are situations where there is only one shot, a bank on the eight.....<hr /></blockquote>

This happens a lot in APA play. If your opponent is on the 8-ball sometimes the only safe you have is to leave a bank on the 8. At the level most APA players play at this presents the opponent with a low-percentage shot.

The player that can make that bank, despite perhaps not having a complete skill set in all other aspects of the game, can win a few games this way.

Therefore I practice banks sometimes.

bluewolf
03-27-2003, 02:38 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> This quote is culled from Laura "Don Quixote" bluewolf's thread about her quest for Fivedom:

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr>

I agree but sometimes there is not a good safe and the bank is less risky in terms of leaving the opponent good than the safe. Then there are situations where there is only one shot, a bank on the eight.....<hr /></blockquote>

This happens a lot in APA play. If your opponent is on the 8-ball sometimes the only safe you have is to leave a bank on the 8. At the level most APA players play at this presents the opponent with a low-percentage shot.

The player that can make that bank, despite perhaps not having a complete skill set in all other aspects of the game, can win a few games this way.

Therefore I practice banks sometimes. <hr /></blockquote>

Thanks wally. There is this guy on our team. He is a very good five. I have seen him in situations where there was no shot and he was safed up beside and because he is so good on banks, he made the shot. You are right. This has come up enough in my two sessions of Apa to pay attention.

laura

Steve Lipsky
03-27-2003, 02:55 PM
Wally, you bring up an interesting point. However, if you look at it from the perspective I was using in the other thread:

I think it's better to practice the easier outs, so that you are not missing 8-balls. The example you cite can only happen when you had a turn at the 8, and through either poor position or poor shotmaking, you missed.

Unless I am playing my mother, I do not expect to win any game where I miss the 8, regardless of how many balls my opponent has on the table. Between running open balls and playing hanging safes (I have only one ball), I am a huge underdog in the proceedings.

And of course, in these positions, it might help to have some banking skills. But my point is just that players should practice things that will make them stop missing the case ball.

I hope I'm not coming off in a bad way here.

- Steve

eg8r
03-27-2003, 03:48 PM
Wally, I have never played in a league before, but there is one thing I have noticed...Most of the league players (ones just there having fun) that I haved played, in tournaments or for fun, will go after anything. If I am in an unfortunate position and cannot get out, I will definitely leave a bank shot for my opponent. It is uncanny how quick they go for the bank. Most get close but they rarely make it.

eg8r

Rod
03-27-2003, 04:33 PM
Hey Wally,
You do need to practice them sometimes. It just isn't on the top of my list. After all you wouldn't want to be know as a guy that never misses a regular shot but can't bank! /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif LOL

dddd
03-28-2003, 12:09 AM
its like any shot you may have. skill at that shot allows you to do more than you would have be able otherwise.

learn to bank, play alot of banks and one pocket, each has its strengths in banking balls.
but like all things know where it fits into your game and you opponents game. that will dictate whether you need to bank or not.

bluewolf
03-28-2003, 06:33 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> Hey Wally,
You do need to practice them sometimes. It just isn't on the top of my list. After all you wouldn't want to be know as a guy that never misses a regular shot but can't bank! /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif LOL <hr /></blockquote>

I practiced a four last night. She could do some banks. Scott gave me a lot of things to work on, one of which is banks. But in an all day lesson, we spent maybe 15 minutes on banks.Like rod, they are not top on my list, just like a grocery list of things I would like to be able to do. For me, I just want to learn the easy ones in case it is the only shot I have. I think kicks are more important tgough and definately kool and fun. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Laura

Wally_in_Cincy
03-28-2003, 10:01 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Steve Lipsky:</font><hr> Wally, you bring up an interesting point.

<font color="blue">Lord knows I try /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif </font color>

However, if you look at it from the perspective I was using in the other thread:

I think it's better to practice the easier outs, so that you are not missing 8-balls. The example you cite can only happen when you had a turn at the 8, and through either poor position or poor shotmaking, you missed.

<font color="blue">You are correct as usual. </font color>

Unless I am playing my mother, I do not expect to win any game where I miss the 8, regardless of how many balls my opponent has on the table. Between running open balls and playing hanging safes (I have only one ball), I am a huge underdog in the proceedings.

And of course, in these positions, it might help to have some banking skills. But my point is just that players should practice things that will make them stop missing the case ball.

<font color="blue">In my case it's usually missing position on the case ball. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif So that proves your point right there. Better to practice position rather than banks. </font color>

I hope I'm not coming off in a bad way here.

<font color="blue">Not at all. I appreciate the advice. And I agree. </font color>

- Steve <hr /></blockquote>

bluewolf
03-28-2003, 11:43 AM
Position or banks?

Why not both? /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Laura

Steve Lipsky
03-28-2003, 12:23 PM
Laura, I will say that banking is a little bit more important in 8-ball than in 9-ball. If you are left with a bank on the 8, you're probably going to have to take it. It'll be nearly impossible to play safe, since you are not trying to leave your opponent safe on the ball you are shooting - you would need to leave him safe on all his balls. In 9-ball, if your opponent leaves you a bank on the 9, it's a lot easier to play safe - you're both shooting at the same ball.

That being said, your path from an SL2 to SL5 is going to depend almost entirely on your ability to start getting out more consistently. In the "basic" tables. Anybody - pros included - is allowed to not get out of the tough tables.

Banking, kicking, jump shots - yes, these are all important shots to have in your arsenal. But... their usefulness to you is not going to be nearly as important as your ability to run an easy pattern, and to do so consistently.

Also, keep in mind that as you become a stronger shooter, your ability to bank will just naturally increase. You'll be hitting your desired contact point more often, and you'll learn a natural feel for them. This will all happen without actually practicing them.

I do not bank well at all, but if a hanging bank comes up I've got a good chance to make it. This does not come from practicing them; it just comes from a natural feel for shooting pool. I promise you that without putting too much practice into them, as you become a stronger player, you will just start to feel more comfortable when they come up.

If you are still missing the occasional straight-in shot (especially on a bar table), you should put most of your practice into shotmaking. If you are missing only the tougher shots, you should divide your time between shotmaking and position. Only when you are truly coming along as a player should you start to practice the more intricate aspects of the game, such as banking or jumping. This will round you out as a player.

I want you to know that you have a stronger desire to get better than perhaps anyone I've ever talked with. This attitude will serve you well on your path to better pool. Just do yourself a favor and put 95% of your practice into the more mundane things in the game; it will pay off in spades.

- Steve

bluewolf
03-28-2003, 03:42 PM
Thanks!!! Actually I practice mundane things a lot. I even practice stroke,follow, freeze, keep head down, good adress, hit centerball in the center , hit the side of the ob I am aiming at etc and lots of short shots, and cheating the pocket on short shots and varying speed for position.Scott just taught me draw and stop so I do practice short draw and stop shots. I ocasionally hit a few banks like some easy ones once a week,but that is about it. I do not practice kicks or safety, I just do those in matches. I do practice a few long shots a day also and shooting cb up and down the table for speed and accuracy. That is about it.

And most of the time I do not even get mad and throw balls, /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

That isnt too hard is it?

Laura

snipershot
03-29-2003, 02:35 PM
To bank or not to bank?

When faced with this decision I probably bank about 75% of the time, when playing lower skill level players I always am left with nothing but a bank so as a result I practice banking more than any other aspect of my game. Me and a good friend always debate with each other what to shoot between a tough cut or a bank. I don't bank unless I have to but I frequently find I have no choice but to bank, I think it's a skill no player should be without.

wolfsburg2
03-30-2003, 07:32 AM
what i do alot is when playing in a bar, if i win, i will shoot the remaining balls before the guy/gal comes to rack(usually a long wait the later it gets:)). i will shoot banks at this time. i also practice shooting the cue for a bank, i'll shoot up table and try to hit the pocket, or short side, and try to hit, side pocket, and corners, i also practice stroke these shots with less angle and more english. shots like these come up in any game, and while it is not as common, as an open runout type table, the hard shots will keep you at the table in a tough game. my .02

wolfsburg2
03-30-2003, 07:33 AM
also, everyone gets out of position, and only the really good players, are able to consistently make super cuts, so for us amateurs, banks, become a necessity.