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ChrisW
03-27-2003, 01:41 PM
Well I am finally going to do it. I am buying a jump cue.
What I don't know is what type of tip to put on.
I think I should put a very hard tip on, is this correct?

Thanks,
Chris

Fred Agnir
03-27-2003, 01:49 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ChrisW:</font><hr> Well I am finally going to do it. I am buying a jump cue.
What I don't know is what type of tip to put on.
I think I should put a very hard tip on, is this correct?

Thanks,
Chris <hr /></blockquote>I think all of the major jump cue players have a very hard tip. So hard that playing with it can be quite a nuisance. The Stealth, Bunjee and the Happy Hopper all look like the same tip (hard, reconstituted leather bits in a compressed phenolic medium).

Fred

TomBrooklyn
03-27-2003, 02:33 PM
All the jump cues I've seen for sale come with a tip on it already. You don't have to put one on.

ChrisW
03-27-2003, 03:12 PM
I am getting it used with no tip.
Don't know what happened to the tip that was on it. ???

Fred Agnir
03-27-2003, 03:15 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ChrisW:</font><hr> I am getting it used with no tip.
Don't know what happened to the tip that was on it. ??? <hr /></blockquote>It fell off.

Hope this helps.

Fred

PS: the Bunjee Jump Tip goes for about $20 and is available through most places that sell Instrokes and Bunjees (like Seyberts).

Predator314
03-27-2003, 03:35 PM
You can get one here:

http://www.seyberts.com/bunjee/jumpers.htm#Jump%20Cue%20Accessories

Rod
03-27-2003, 04:26 PM
Chris,
Let me make a suggestion. If your fairly new to jumping I wouldn't waste my money on a $20 tip. A good hard $1 WB tip trimmed down will work fine and hold chalk. The only advantage I know of having the rock hard tip is clearing balls very close. In the begining you won't be shooting that close anyway. A disadvantage to the phenolic is holding chalk and losing the tip again. Just a thought.

Rod

Wally_in_Cincy
03-28-2003, 08:13 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr>

It fell off.....

<hr /></blockquote>

Or was "harvested" by #### Leonard. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

SpiderMan
03-28-2003, 09:59 AM
Did anyone notice the disclaimer that the bungee jumper's tip may come off in use? They imply that this is not unusual, and to just roughen the back of it with a tip pik and glue it back on (glue not specified). You'd think they'd do a better job of putting it on in the first place!

SpiderMan

SpiderMan
03-28-2003, 10:04 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> Chris,
Let me make a suggestion. If your fairly new to jumping I wouldn't waste my money on a $20 tip. A good hard $1 WB tip trimmed down will work fine and hold chalk. The only advantage I know of having the rock hard tip is clearing balls very close. In the begining you won't be shooting that close anyway. A disadvantage to the phenolic is holding chalk and losing the tip again. Just a thought.

Rod <hr /></blockquote>

I'd add to this good advice and say use the brown (natural) WB tip rather than the black. The brown is much harder and denser.

Regarding the phenolic tips, Sid V and I recently did a series of experiments on tips for his Stealth jump cue. One of the tips we tried was a phenolic. The current tip is made of bakelite, as supplied on the Lucasi jump cue. The bakelite tip performs so much better than phenolic that it's like night and day. Sid did purchase that tip from Hawley's for $20, but since then I noticed that Barringer's has bakelite tips for only $7.50 on their web site.

SpiderMan

Fred Agnir
03-28-2003, 10:32 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr>
Regarding the phenolic tips, Sid V and I recently did a series of experiments on tips for his Stealth jump cue. One of the tips we tried was a phenolic. The current tip is made of bakelite, as supplied on the Lucasi jump cue. The bakelite tip performs so much better than phenolic that it's like night and day. <hr /></blockquote>I'll add a confusing tidbit. Bakelite is a manufacturers name, and one of the early pioneers for thermoset plastics. Most of what people refer to as "Bakelite" is a formed or molded phenolic.

I assume that by "bakelite" you are refering to a light brownish thermoset that smells like bandaids, and that you can see the fibers (canvas, linen, paper, etc.), and that what you are refering to as "phenolic" is black (or white)and has the hardness similar to cast phenolic pool ball. Maybe it is a cast phenolic, whereas what you call "bakelite" is a pressure laminated phenolic. But I digress.No matter.

BTW, I've also had vendors refer glass-based thermosets (like G10 epoxy) as "Bakelite."

Fred

Rod
03-28-2003, 10:39 AM
Spidey,
I didn't know they made a bakelite tip. Now that is hard and brittle. It must be a special composition.

Nothing to do with jump cue tips but yesterday I put on a Morri tip for a friend. It was my first one, he brought over super glue. The side of those tips are firm and it takes a little time trimming them down. I imagine it is because of the glue used between layers. The layers and construction are by far superior to Talisman which I cut off. The glue between layers on a talisman actually rolls up, similar to gum. I cut down the Morri and never detected glue lines. They were there but it cut the same as a non layered tip with the glue being as one with the tip. Anyway he played with it all day and said he really liked it last night. He changed because of a miscue at times and said it didn't hold chalk well.

Rod

Troy
03-28-2003, 10:54 AM
Rod... Not to argue the point, but I've installed many Moori and Talisman Pro tips and I have never seen the phenom of "glue rolls up similar to gum" as you describe. When I trim a Talisman Pro is appears the same as when I trim a Moori and very similar to a non-layered tip.

Troy
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr>....The layers and construction are by far superior to Talisman which I cut off. The glue between layers on a talisman actually rolls up, similar to gum. I cut down the Morri and never detected glue lines. They were there but it cut the same as a non layered tip with the glue being as one with the tip. Rod <hr /></blockquote>

Rod
03-28-2003, 11:22 AM
Troy,
It was odd. He had a talisman on another shaft that needed trimming because of a slight mushroom. I trimmed the side which seemed normal. I then re-shaped the crown. When I did that the first layer at the very top of the tip rolled off like gum and was sticky. Note this layer did not extend to the side of the tip. Anyway I find it interesting from prior posts that talisman and some installers suggest not getting the tip hot when burnishing because of delmaniation. It is a direct link to the glue used during manufacturing.

Rod

SpiderMan
03-28-2003, 11:46 AM
Hi Rod,

I haven't seen the phenomenon you noted regarding the Talisman glue layers, but I do agree about the build quality and the chalk-holding superiority of the Mooris.

At the current price of $7.50 each for Mooris from Barringer, I can't imagine paying $5 for a Talisman. I just ordered a large quantity of Mooris and will probably stop installing Talismans for now, at least until the supply situation changes. If I can install a Moori and charge $5 more than for a Talisman, I make more money and my customer gets a far superior product.

SpiderMan

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> Spidey,
I didn't know they made a bakelite tip. Now that is hard and brittle. It must be a special composition.

Nothing to do with jump cue tips but yesterday I put on a Morri tip for a friend. It was my first one, he brought over super glue. The side of those tips are firm and it takes a little time trimming them down. I imagine it is because of the glue used between layers. The layers and construction are by far superior to Talisman which I cut off. The glue between layers on a talisman actually rolls up, similar to gum. I cut down the Morri and never detected glue lines. They were there but it cut the same as a non layered tip with the glue being as one with the tip. Anyway he played with it all day and said he really liked it last night. He changed because of a miscue at times and said it didn't hold chalk well.

Rod <hr /></blockquote>

Popcorn
03-28-2003, 11:47 AM
I don't think you are right about the Barringer tip being Bakelite. I bought one and it is just a piece of canvas phenolic rod he has cut off. The quality was so low I did not even install it on my cue. You should have seen the shape of the tip when I got it, it was a joke. I found the paper based layered phenolic tips I bought of ebay, 3 for $9.99 to be much better then the Barringer tip. They are about as good as you can get as far as I am concerned.

SpiderMan
03-28-2003, 11:54 AM
Fred,

The "bakelite" material used for these tips is the same stuff that was an industry standard for years in making electrical standoff insulators. The resin is a medium brown in color, with a strong weave pattern in the embedded fabric. Around here, this bakelite is available from electrical vendors as rod, tube, or sheet stock.

When used as a tip, the fiber alignment is parallel to the shaft, and the exposed ends of the fibers at the crown of the tip actually form a "fuzz" that takes and holds chalk. It's this chalking ability, combined with extreme hardness, that might be responsible for the better performance as compared to so-called "phenolic" tips.

SpiderMan

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr>
Regarding the phenolic tips, Sid V and I recently did a series of experiments on tips for his Stealth jump cue. One of the tips we tried was a phenolic. The current tip is made of bakelite, as supplied on the Lucasi jump cue. The bakelite tip performs so much better than phenolic that it's like night and day. <hr /></blockquote>I'll add a confusing tidbit. Bakelite is a manufacturers name, and one of the early pioneers for thermoset plastics. Most of what people refer to as "Bakelite" is a formed or molded phenolic.

I assume that by "bakelite" you are refering to a light brownish thermoset that smells like bandaids, and that you can see the fibers (canvas, linen, paper, etc.), and that what you are refering to as "phenolic" is black (or white)and has the hardness similar to cast phenolic pool ball. Maybe it is a cast phenolic, whereas what you call "bakelite" is a pressure laminated phenolic. But I digress.No matter.

BTW, I've also had vendors refer glass-based thermosets (like G10 epoxy) as "Bakelite."

Fred <hr /></blockquote>

SpiderMan
03-28-2003, 11:56 AM
Can you email to me a picture of the tip that Barringer sent you? He does not advertise them as bakelite, but his online catalog picture appears to be just that. Did the one he sent you look different than his ad?

SpiderMan

Popcorn
03-28-2003, 12:06 PM
It looked just like the picture on his website except worse. It had been crowned way off center. After reshaping it you would have had hardly any tip left. He is very good at hype, but the tip he sent me was a piece of junk. On my layered phenolic tip the only problem is you may miscue but that is easily remedied by just using a piece of course sand paper to create cross hatch marks on the top of the tip and it takes chalk and works great. Like I said I don't see how it could work better and the price is very good.

Troy
03-28-2003, 04:45 PM
When I burnish ANY layered tip, I treat it as though it were on a Predator with a very soft ferrule. After burnishing ANY layered tip I allow about a 30 minute "rest" prior to shaping to allow the layer adhesive to re-set. I have had both Moori and Talisman Pro tips peel top layers before I started the wait technique.

Troy
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> Troy,
Anyway I find it interesting from prior posts that talisman and some installers suggest not getting the tip hot when burnishing because of delmaniation. It is a direct link to the glue used during manufacturing.

Rod <hr /></blockquote>

Troy
03-28-2003, 04:50 PM
With Moori tips now being Mass produced in China, I'll stay with Talisman Pro even more emphatically than ever. I've had at least 5-6 converts (2 shafts + each) since January 'cuz they simply do NOT like the new Moori tips for feel, durability, or chalk holding.

Troy
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr>At the current price of $7.50 each for Mooris from Barringer, I can't imagine paying $5 for a Talisman. I just ordered a large quantity of Mooris and will probably stop installing Talismans for now, at least until the supply situation changes. If I can install a Moori and charge $5 more than for a Talisman, I make more money and my customer gets a far superior product.

SpiderMan

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> Spidey,
I didn't know they made a bakelite tip. Now that is hard and brittle. It must be a special composition.

Nothing to do with jump cue tips but yesterday I put on a Morri tip for a friend. It was my first one, he brought over super glue. The side of those tips are firm and it takes a little time trimming them down. I imagine it is because of the glue used between layers. The layers and construction are by far superior to Talisman which I cut off. The glue between layers on a talisman actually rolls up, similar to gum. I cut down the Morri and never detected glue lines. They were there but it cut the same as a non layered tip with the glue being as one with the tip. Anyway he played with it all day and said he really liked it last night. He changed because of a miscue at times and said it didn't hold chalk well.

Rod <hr /></blockquote> <hr /></blockquote>

SpiderMan
03-28-2003, 04:58 PM
Troy,

I think you've posted more than once that Mooris are now made in China, but I have seen only "Japan" advertised on the web sites selling them. Do you have a source on the China rumor? I still have one or two older Mooris that I'm going to compare with the recent product, but if you also have verifiable information on such changes in manufacture I'd be very interested. My personal experiences with Moori have all been very good, with Talisman not all bad but definitely mixed.

SpiderMan

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Troy:</font><hr> With Moori tips now being Mass produced in China, I'll stay with Talisman Pro even more emphatically than ever. I've had at least 5-6 converts (2 shafts + each) since January 'cuz they simply do NOT like the new Moori tips for feel, durability, or chalk holding.

Troy
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr>At the current price of $7.50 each for Mooris from Barringer, I can't imagine paying $5 for a Talisman. I just ordered a large quantity of Mooris and will probably stop installing Talismans for now, at least until the supply situation changes. If I can install a Moori and charge $5 more than for a Talisman, I make more money and my customer gets a far superior product.

SpiderMan

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> Spidey,
I didn't know they made a bakelite tip. Now that is hard and brittle. It must be a special composition.

Nothing to do with jump cue tips but yesterday I put on a Morri tip for a friend. It was my first one, he brought over super glue. The side of those tips are firm and it takes a little time trimming them down. I imagine it is because of the glue used between layers. The layers and construction are by far superior to Talisman which I cut off. The glue between layers on a talisman actually rolls up, similar to gum. I cut down the Morri and never detected glue lines. They were there but it cut the same as a non layered tip with the glue being as one with the tip. Anyway he played with it all day and said he really liked it last night. He changed because of a miscue at times and said it didn't hold chalk well.

Rod <hr /></blockquote> <hr /></blockquote> <hr /></blockquote>

Troy
03-28-2003, 05:26 PM
Well Spider, I can't locate the reference to China , but the "mass produced" reference comes from Tony Jones (Talisman)...

See :

http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Board=ccb&amp;Number=62324&amp;Forum =All_Forums&amp;Words=talisman&amp;Match=Entire%20Phrase&amp;S earchpage=1&amp;Limit=25&amp;Old=6months&amp;Main=61980&amp;Search =true#Post62324

You may want to contact Tony directly to discuss his source.
I have no reason to not believe him since I have cusomers dissatisfied with new Moori tips.

Troy

Fred Agnir
03-28-2003, 07:21 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> Troy,

I think you've posted more than once that Mooris are now made in China, but I have seen only "Japan" advertised on the web sites selling them. Do you have a source on the China rumor? <hr /></blockquote>My sources tell me that they're still made in Japan, but that in the near future, possibly, but not definite, a Korean connection might happen. All rumors, misunderstandings and hearsay.

Fred

SpiderMan
03-29-2003, 12:58 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Troy:</font><hr> Well Spider, I can't locate the reference to China , but the "mass produced" reference comes from Tony Jones (Talisman)...Troy <hr /></blockquote>

Mr Barringer agreed to supply my tips in the original factory packaging (tins), so I'll report in a week or two whether it is China or Japan marked. I say week or two because I sent a check and they'll probably hold my order for clearance.

SpiderMan

04-09-2003, 10:34 PM
Hello To All...

Popcorn... please email us with your name and address (as well as how they were purchased) as we would like to either refund your purchase price (including shipping) or for replacement - your choice. We did have a bad production run and thought that we caught all of them (obviously not). We do apologize for your experience and hope that you will avail yourself to our 'Satisfaction Guaranteed' policy.

Please use our 'info@BarringerCues.com' email address as this posting email address (JunqueBlocker@hotmail.com) is just for news postings.
--
Kind Regards,

Joe Barringer

Barringer Custom Cues
2514 NW Boca Raton Blvd.
Boca Raton, Fl 33431

561.362.5977

Web Site: &lt;http://www.BarringerCues.com&gt;
Email: info@BarringerCues.com

Politics:
We are Boycotting France &amp; Germany. We will not purchase nor sell to either country.

Additionally...
The Saudis are boycotting American goods. Let us return the favor. We are boycotting mid-east oil imports. Everytime I fill my car or Harley, it is frustrating to think that I am supporting the very people who are trying to destroy us. Here are the culprits.

We are only purchasing gas at the following stations who import zero oil from the mid-east: Citgo, Sunoco, Conoco, Sinclair, Hess.

We will not purchase gas from: Shell, Chevron/Texaco, Exxon/Mobil, Marathon/Speedway, Amoco &amp; BP/Phillips. Join us!

STOP PAYING FOR TERRORISM!

Popcorn
04-10-2003, 12:04 AM
I don't care about that, I will take your word for it. I am sure you are telling the truth, or you would have gotten back every tip you ever sold if they were like the one I got. While you are here though, there is some discussion regarding Moori tips. Some are saying they are being made in China now, any truth to that? It would not really matter, even if Moori was farming out the work as long as the tips were produced to their standard, but I was just curious. I don't know about that boycotting stuff. I have a friend with a French restaurant. It is a small place with limited seating. He does maybe three seating a night and makes his money not in volume but by price. Pretty expensive with the average tab around $200. or more for a seating of two. We ate there the other night and he told me business was off about 40%. He is worried, now here is a guy, that has done nothing to anyone, yet he is being punished. You have to think about that stuff before doing it. Just as the comment I made about you, it can be harmful to someone and maybe unfair.

04-10-2003, 12:15 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BarringerCues:</font><hr> We are only purchasing gas at the following stations who import zero oil from the mid-east: Citgo, Sunoco, Conoco, Sinclair, Hess.

We will not purchase gas from: Shell, Chevron/Texaco, Exxon/Mobil, Marathon/Speedway, Amoco &amp; BP/Phillips. Join us!

STOP PAYING FOR TERRORISM!
<hr /></blockquote>

/ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif I guess we are supporting terorism cause all we got in Hawaii is Shell, Chevron/Texaco

Sid_Vicious
04-10-2003, 07:15 AM
Sounds like a scattering of test samples of these tip for our merry crew here on the CB is about in order. I'd already moved away from the camp of wanting one after the terrible report we had here. Blind faith isn't my best quality. ;-) sid