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03-21-2002, 06:12 PM
since a request was made that i not respond on another thread, i'll respect that request and just do my own.

i think that discussions, questions and even arguments about rules are very, very helpful and are one of the major benefits of this ccb thing. the rules, as published by bca, are not really all that well understood out there in the rooms. the more we hash them out here the better. i'd wager that a disporportionately high number of poolroom fatalities can be tracked to two honest, hard working but drunk players having an honest disagreement about the rules.

hah! you moved more than 1 object ball, i get ball in hand. you touch that ball and i'll get my knife...you get your knife and i'll get my gun and the next thing you know two really nice cues are being sold dirt cheap on e-bay by angry widows.

much healthier to settle 'em here.

dan...besides, the ones without books don't know we're makin most of this stuff up!

Rod
03-21-2002, 07:11 PM
Well Dan I gotta sort of agree. Now I don't know about that bar room stuff, but it could happen that way. It's your story so I'm not changing it. I had a 67 rule book but I put that away when the numbers started changing. Then my 89 rule book wouldn't work either same problem. Then I remember the 8 was neutral but not any more. Sometime back the 8 on the break was a winner, not any more. So I found my 97 rule book. Then we got to his frozen ball deal and rule 3.38 is 3.37 in my book so another rule got thrown in there. I looked and found my 2000 rule book and I don't have a clue what's changed from there. I don't need any more rule books, well I do but I ain't buying any.
I'll leave it up to you all to answer questions of the more recent changes or go to the BCA site, or play it by ear.
I think that's what were all here for is to discuss, aren't we? No problem here, it takes courage and a good person for lack of better words, to admit to something that was misguided from the begining by a poor written book.
I did learn a new rule, but I forgot already.
Rod ~~ put his 97 rule book away.

cheesemouse
03-21-2002, 08:00 PM
houstondan,
I can tell by your profile that you have a very healthy humor and I'm sure you understood my post was meant to be just that; humourous. I don't take many things serious in life but I do play by the rules and I just hope there is always someone around that can tell me what those rules are and I see your are one of those people and I thank-you for that. I look for your kind on the golf course too. /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

Barbara
03-21-2002, 10:36 PM
dan,

I'm terrible at trying to explain some of the BCA rules and discussing them on this board really helps. At least, it cuts down on the 1,000+ word essays by Bruce Baker when he used to post. BTW, where is "Uncle Brucie"?

Another good thing it does would be that it would bring Patti Ireland and Richard Rhorer out of lurking mode. It was always a good thing to have had such formerly senior (formerly with the BCA as it is now) persons to contribute to this board.

When you see the "Richard the Cuemaker" soon, say "Hi" to him for me and that he can mail me my new ivory cue to me anytime. When you see "Richard the Rules Maker and BCA Master Instructor" anytime soon, please remember me to him and that his input would really be appreciated on this board, along with Brucie, Patti, and Roger Glenn, if you guys and gal are lurking out there.

Barbara~~~not working Vegas this year only to spell a Ref for a shift or two.

jjinfla
03-22-2002, 01:15 AM
Discussions on rules keep those little gray cells stimulated. Jake

Tom_In_Cincy
03-22-2002, 07:33 PM
Thanks Dan..

Rules are an advantage to everyone that knows them.
Discussion like this can only improve your expertise.
Keep them coming..

Barbara
03-22-2002, 08:14 PM
Tom,

On my first trip to Vegas, I was reading the BCA rulebook on the plane trip out there. I happened upon the "Stalemate" rule and thought, "Why the heck would someone call a stalemate?". Well, I saw a situation at one table where I would want to call a stalemate - and for both players involved.

Let's see if any posters out ther catch on to this.

Barbara~~~learned the rules and a whole new way to play the game by the rules...

cheesemouse
03-22-2002, 08:27 PM
Barb,
Could it be in 8-ball: 8 is deep in the jaws and the only ball left on the table is froze on it where even with ball in hand the eight can't be made w/o fouling. I've had this situation.

Barbara
03-22-2002, 08:34 PM
Bingo!!! And do you know I saw two women in the BCA Open Singles trying to play this out??!!

I stopped and stared at this game and that's when I decided I wanted to become a BCA Ref and gained a whole new respect for 8-ball since the bar league I play in doesn't even have a legal hit rule. It's chess with pool balls!!! /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif!

Okay, when I come up to Corner Billiards in two weeks, will you introduce yourself to me?

Barbara~~~sees the gauntlet thrown by Brookeland Billy...

Tom_In_Cincy
03-22-2002, 08:36 PM
Once again, good to see ya posting here again.

In 8 ball rules (specific to the game of 8 ball) in a refereed match, the ref may call a "stalemate" if in their opinion (after 3 consecutive called 'safes' [6 shots, 3 by each player) a situation arises that if an attempt to move a ball could result in a loss of game ( regardless of how many balls are on the table). Rule 4.21 (paraphrased)

cheesemouse
03-22-2002, 08:46 PM
Barb,
I believe it has been determined that Fran made a Freudian slip. She meant to type 'housemouse' not 'cheesemouse' but let me make a confession. I would love to have been the one she was referring too, because that would mean I was close to the action and it would be my pleasure to intro myself to you. I did give you the first break. /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

Barbara
03-22-2002, 08:52 PM
Nope!! Take a big red pen and mark yourself WRONG!! You don't need to be in a referred match, you only have to call a ref to assess the situation if you're in it and here's the situation. PLUS!!! The BCA has since changed the rule in that you don't have to have any number of required balls of your pattern left on the table. Before it was that you and your opponent had to have two balls of your pattern each to call a stalemate. Now, you don't. So if your opponent jaws the 8-ball in a pocket and your last remaining ball is in front of the 8-ball and you don't want to shoot at your ball because by doing so you'll lose the game, you can call a stalemate!! It will take 3 consecutive turns by each player to do this (why they think I should hand BIH to my opponent 3 times to unscrew this this situation and waste time, I don't know) and if it's witnessed by a ref, you get to play the game over with the original breaker breaking!

Barbara~~~could do with just a spot evaluation call by a ref that 8-ball players at the Nats usually aren't 1-pocket players that can extract and pocket the same ball on the one shot.... hmmmmm....

Barbara~~~needs some SERIOUS help on PATTERN PLAY for 8-ball... And thanks Tom, but I'm still not liking this format when I see all the little fireworks everyone else does and I still don't know how to do the basics...

Tom_In_Cincy
03-22-2002, 11:26 PM
I stand corrected, Barbara has got it covered..
always ready to talk rules..

Drake
03-22-2002, 11:46 PM
Barbara, I also hated the new format. Until I changed my preferences to post active in the "Last Day" and "Flat Mode".

03-23-2002, 02:23 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Barbara:</font><hr> And thanks Tom, but I'm still not liking this format when I see all the little fireworks everyone else does and I still don't know how to do the basics... <hr></blockquote>

well, i wish i could figure out how to post pictures with my copy. that is major cool. other than that tho, i'm not overwhelmed with all the cute tricks. i could live without the stuff where people put fancy-moving stuff in cartoons or whatever at the bottom of their posts. it makes it hard to read when all that 'stuff' is going on. file that under: 'opinion-geezer'.

on the rules re: stalemate, i'd be like a substitute teacher trying to read the book real fast. it would scare the heck out of me to be on the floor knowing that i'd have to answer any possible question at any time.

at least when we do it here we've got time to go get the book.

dan

03-23-2002, 03:27 AM
Hi cheesemouse.

Actually I did think Billy was referring to you because of the name similarity, and that he was just being sarcastic with it. Strange. I haven't really been following the threads here so I don't know what, if anything, may have transpired between you two. But like I said, I'd be happy to get in line to play him. Maybe I'll get to go first. Goody.

Fran

Rod
03-23-2002, 05:17 AM
Well he's gunning for someone Fran, so ya'all better be down there and draw numbers!! I really did not see a post that would provoke that on this board. So I don't know whats happening. It ought to be interesting when we find out who's playing who. I never heard of a challenge and not know who is playing. Probably cheese is up to some tricks, lol.

jjinfla
03-23-2002, 06:12 AM
Barbara, Over a year ago in a BCA tournament I was down to the 8-ball and my opponent had one ball left and both balls were near each other on the end rail. I played safe by nudging the 8 thinking what a brilliant move I made. Then he played safe by nudging his ball and then I realized I was dead because if this game went to stalemate he probably was going to run out on me the next match because he was a much better than me. But I couldn't figure a way out of the stalemate without giving him this game. So we went to a stalemate and sure enough, when he got to the table the next game he ran out. Jake~~~came so close to beating their top player.

Barbara
03-23-2002, 10:19 AM
Well, Jake, if I'm not mistaken, the scuttlebutt I've heard may do away with the stalemate rule altogether. Someone's got to lose the game, sorry it was you.

Barbara

03-23-2002, 10:38 AM
Barbara- I'm not lurking- I am alive and well, and having a terrible time figuring out this new format! I do hope that the rumors of getting rid of the stalemate rule are not true..... pool, 8ball particularly, is a game of strategy, and there are times when a stalemate is appropriate. I have seen people overuse it as a strategy, but that is rare. And by the way, it does not require a referee to stalemate- if both players agree, they can actually stalemate at any point in the game. (re- no longer requires just 2 balls and the 8). Bruce is alive and recovering nicely, but still a bit tired- had a short email from Roger, so I guess he's still out here, too! I'll try to get this new format figured out better and respond more frequently! Patti

Barbara
03-23-2002, 11:10 AM
Hey Girl!! Wazzupp!!

Yeah, I wasn't too crazy about this format, either. I'm not too PC savvy, so I haven't been bothering to figure out how to play with all the bells and whistles.

Roll call for BCA Nationals! Are you going to be out there? How about Roger, Bruce, and Richard R.?

Barbara

03-23-2002, 11:28 AM
I will not be there this year- due to a death in my family this past Tuesday i am having to use all my vacation time for that. I can't speak for the others....Patti

Barbara
03-23-2002, 11:55 AM
Patti,

I'm so sorry and offer my sincere condolences to you and your family.

I'll miss chatting with you poolside.

Barbara