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03-29-2003, 04:23 PM
The UPA drafted guidelines insuring that all prize money would be paid at all UPA sanctioned
events. These guidelines required the promoter(s) putting guaranteed prize fund in an escrow
account w/an attorney for the purpose of paying the prize fund, or using the UPA's own attorney,
or putting it up with the UPA itself.

Promoters, players, and even fans felt this was an unfair guideline and requested the UPA
to relax its guidelines thus allowing promoters to pay in “good faith.” So as to work with
promoters, the UPA voted and amended the original guideline to make it an option instead
of a stipulation.

The UPA guidelines further stated that any promoter that has had an unblemished history
of always paying all prize money guarantees would not have to put their money in escrow
or with the UPA. Other promoters who do not have a perfect history would be handled by
the UPA on a case by case basis.

The Mid Atlantic Open promoted by Mr Brady Behrman was the first event to pass under
the new amendment (money not needed in escrow).

The Mid Atlantic Open failed to payout all prize monies due. The UPA has notified Mr.
Behrman that the UPA will be setting a due date for all monies to be paid to the UPA
players affected before legal action takes place.

Mr Behrman has notified us that he intends to pay all monies owed.

UPA players understand that under the new amendment, the UPA cannot verify any prize
money at an event before or during the event. However, the UPA does have a contract
with each promoter that states they are legally bound to pay all prize monies guaranteed at
an event.

Please understand that this has been an issue since the Mid Atlantic Open held at the end of
January. Despite many requests by media to comment on the lack of payment for players,
the UPA has chosen to remain silent hoping things would be worked out (payers being
payed the guaranteed prize). Due to international pressure as well as players legitimately
desiring action by their organization, the UPA is forced to pursue legal action if the
situation is not reconciled.

It is the UPA’s desire that things work out, and future relations are friendly. If you have any
further questions, you can call the UPA directly for any further comment. Thank you.

Frank Alvarez III
UPA Representative

Ken
03-29-2003, 05:00 PM
What's the point of filing a lawsuit against someone who doesn't have the money to pay you? You're going to generate attorney's fees greater then the amount owed for both of you. This is incredibly narrow minded.

The promoters are not trying to get rich by putting on pool tournaments. They clearly can't get the players to come without advertising a certain "guaranteed" added amount of money. That's the players holding them hostage. It would make far more sense, given the state of professional pool, for the players to agree to particiipitate with the understanding that they would receive all the entry money (put that in escrow) plus anything made above expenses up to a certain amount before the promoter could take a cent of profit.

Let the players take some of the risk up front and try to come up with a product that is self-supporting. The UPA's antagonism toward the promoters is self-defeating for the players and makes the people capable of putting on tournaments reluctant to do so. I supppose the UPA feels that it will not work since their own tournaments seem to have been financial flops.
KenCT

JPB
03-29-2003, 07:28 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ken:</font><hr> "What's the point of filing a lawsuit against someone who doesn't have the money to pay you? You're going to generate attorney's fees greater then the amount owed for both of you. This is incredibly narrow minded.

The promoters are not trying to get rich by putting on pool tournaments. They clearly can't get the players to come without advertising a certain "guaranteed" added amount of money. That's the players holding them hostage. It would make far more sense, given the state of professional pool, for the players to agree to particiipitate with the understanding that they would receive all the entry money (put that in escrow) plus anything made above expenses up to a certain amount before the promoter could take a cent of profit."

Well, you don't know what assets the promoter has. He may not have cash he wants to spend now, but he may have income or assets that could be attached. A lawsuit may allow them to put him under oath and discover all his assets and sources of income and take them. So the promoter might have some incentive to pay. Or he could be forced into bankruptcy.

I also don't understand the big apology for the promoter. yeah, he came onto the forum and confessed stiffing players and promised to pay etc... I hope he does. but stiffing the players was inexcusable. I don't care if the guy was young. I don't care if he meant well. I don't think he was trying to pull a scam necessarily, but there can be no question that he was incompetent and what he did was wrong. The players are holding nobody "hostage" by only going to tournaments where they stand to make money. And it's dishonest to get them to come with a guarantee and not pay them. It is the same as telling someody you will hire them for a certain salary and they travel to the job, work a couple days, and then you don't pay them. That is just horrible to do to somebody. Saying sorry doesn't cut it. Doing everything possible to get the money promptly, including selling everything you own and borrowing is the only thing to do. I don't know whether the promoter is doing that. And the APA must deal with him very formally from now on. Funds in escrow, attorneys, etc... I am not saying Behrman is a bad guy, but he has demonstrated he is not to be trusted in business right now. That's not a personal slam, but rather a business observation. Everything in writing, funds up-front, no credit, etc....

Steve Lipsky
03-29-2003, 10:46 PM
The only thing I don't really understand about the situation is how it was decided who would be paid and who would not.

The story in BD mentioned who was waiting, and it seemed kind of roundabout. Players in 3rd, 7th, etc. (I don't remember the exact details.)

I hope no politics or friendships played a role in who got their money.

- Steve

eg8r
03-29-2003, 11:17 PM
Hopefully everything works out.

[ QUOTE ]
It is the UPA’s desire that things work out, and future relations are friendly. If you have any
further questions, you can call the UPA directly for any further comment. Thank you. <hr /></blockquote> If we have further questions, I think they should be answered here. This post was made here to clear up confusion, so answer our questions here. I know this sounds like I am harping on old issues, but I look at this as spam also. If you come here to make announcements then quit saying all further questions should go to your website or to call.

eg8r

Popcorn
03-30-2003, 10:13 AM
I am curious, if you sanctioned the tournament, isn't it your responsible to pay the players the money that is short? You may have a contract with Mr. Berman and will possibility need to take some kind of civil action to get the money owed, but it seems to me that is not the problem of the players. That is between you and Mr. Berman. I would say the buck stops with the UPA as far as paying the players, whether Mr. Berman ever pays of not, you may share the bulk of the responsibility for what happened. I am also curious how you think publicly airing this, as a so called press release for public consummation, encourages Mr. Berman to pay? He has already made a public statement saying he will straighten it out, and now you publicly threaten him with a law suit, is this supposed to be diplomacy? This is between you, Mr. Berman, and the players involved. I would say, you screwed up, not having the money in escrow, but either way there is no need to air your dirty laundry here or anywhere else. You need the promoters as much as they need you, in fact without the promoter you don't exist. Act a little more business like. Just my opinion.

Steve Lipsky
03-30-2003, 11:23 AM
Popcorn, I seriously respect your views on just about everything, but I must disagree with you here.

Charlie caught a lot of crap for the situation with the US Open, and in the interest of the game, he relaxed his escrow requirements. What happens? One of the first tournaments after he does this, the UPA gets screwed.

I don't think Charlie or the UPA are at fault nearly as much as the promoter. I think this is a terribly unfortunate situation, but I think all parties are learning.

Both Brady and Charlie are stand-up guys, and I think everything will work out. I believe Brady that he will make good on the payments, and I believe Charlie is doing more than his part for the future of the game.

- Steve

jjinfla
03-30-2003, 12:05 PM
Post deleted by jjinfla

Warren_Lushia
03-30-2003, 01:38 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jjinfla:</font><hr> Quote Steve:

Both Brady and Charlie are stand-up guys, and I think everything will work out. I believe Brady that he will make good on the payments, and I believe Charlie is doing more than his part for the future of the game.

Evidently you didn't see the post on AZB - Is the US Open in jeopardy? With this link: http://www.pilotonline.com/breaking/br0327ber.html.

<hr /></blockquote>

that article has nothing whatsoever to do with the UPA, charlie williams, or brady behrman. the article is about BARRY behrman, NOT brady. jeeze man, why you gotta stir up more crap?

on another note, i was a very vocal critic of charlie williams around the time of the us open on this board. i'd like to say that charlie is doing the right thing now, and i congratulate him and wish him the best. i'm very glad to see he is learning and moving on. it takes a true man, and charlie is proving that to me at least. good job charlie, maybe the UPA will grow even bigger now.

and i applaud brady for stepping up, being a man, admitting his mistakes, and trying to work things out. now brady just needs to follow through and he will have proven himself, and hopefully learn valuable lessons for the future. i think he can do it.

men's pool isn't in the best state right now, and these 2 young men can help get things sorted. good luck guys.

warren..

Popcorn
03-30-2003, 03:04 PM
The real problem may stem from the fantasy prize funds the promoters want to provide. It is becoming obvious the money is just not there. More realistic prize funds with maybe a provision to increase the prize fund based on the success of the tournament makes more sense. Nobody wants to see the promoters taking a bath on every tournament. How do they come up with the prize funds? They seem to be based on the most successful scenario, that makes it a risky business.