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q4summit
03-30-2003, 11:31 PM
I played my buddy in bank pool today. We finished with him sinking the 8 in an impressive 3 rail bank that kicked the 8 across all 9 feet dead into the pocket. I still had 6 balls on the table.

I can't for the life of me figure out banks. I can lay a bank out for my buddy and in 3 shots he'll have it down and won't miss but maybe 2 times out of 10 from then out. me: Miss, miss, miss miss.

I've tried to get a feel for where it will go, I always come up way off (short or long). I've tried Jeanette Lee's mirror table theory: picture another table (mirrored image) next to yours, aim for the pocket your banking it, it will go. It doesn't for me. Measuring doesn't help. Nothing I can seem to do, read, try, helps.

I got so frusterated that I was missing the majority of my shots, was getting pissed and wanted to break my cue. Only time i've had this frusteration before was trying to learn the closed bridge when I first started.

Anyone have any advice for an aspiring player?

Marc

03-31-2003, 12:18 AM
Wish I could help ya but I am learning all the basics myself to help out my son. The more I read, the more intrested I am getting. Good luck to you

dddd
03-31-2003, 01:42 AM
Banking is a game played by many players around here.

The shots and speeds and the why you shoot the particular shot is not the same as other games. There are many speed differences on shots that would not be played on other games.

There is a definite safety game involved in banking balls.
One of the first things to remember bank cross side or cross corner let them bank the long straight backs. This alone will improve your chances
One other thing remember not to leave the cross corners, or cross sides you will lose constantly to a bank player by doing that. Those are the meat and potatoes of the game. Leave the q ball up on the end rail away from the majority of the balls down on the foot rail. Now they can only bank straight backs, which if they miss will probably leave you one of those good shots.

Of course one must be able to see where on the rail to shoot the ball to. To me I shoot to a spot on the rail, which results in the ball banking to the pocket. I try to get the ball to hit the location on that rail which sends it to the pocket. There are personally many methods on shooting the ball.
I am not ever sure I can explain this right but I will try.
I am not trying to aim at a point on the object ball for the q ball to hit; if I could shoot the object ball by itself I would in essence be kicking the object ball directly to rail and then to pocket.
.

See the angle, well to see the angle one must know what they are looking for.
Set up a bank shot that will bank naturally that when you hit it with the q ball, the q ball doesnt move left or right and generally stops, draws, for moves straight forward. Stopping the ball is a good start though. Shoot this set up shot, and repeat it until you just see where that angle is.


Banks at different places will require different speeds to create good angles, remember speeds will change movement off the rail, so one must understand the need to bank for the best chance of making the ball.

Banking by method is ok to prove to yourself the ball has good opportunity to go but you have to shoot a lot of the shots in order to really feel, and have the confidence which leads to better shots in the first place. There are several methods, which allow you to plot the location the shot must hit to bank well, but that requires you to really know how to implement the aiming line.

In coming up long and short that to me means,
Aim is off; speed is off, a combination of too much of one and not enough of the other.
Practice is wonderful way to resolve and acquire that eye.


Banking is repetition, set up a repeatable shot and shoot it repeatedly. Start with the cross sides and cross corners they will be your bread and butter shots. Shoot them until you can write about how to shoot them. This takes time and is not an overnight sensation. But again in the meantime, dont leave cross sides, cross corners, you shoot them dont let him. Second it ok to play safe and leave it up on the head rail on the rubber, far away from a good bank. Force mistakes by preventing good shots.

bank and one pocket teach the banking
play them both because each offers something wonderful
and good luck !

q4summit
03-31-2003, 03:49 AM
Your help was much appreicated. I really need to take a few weeks off of playing people and just do a few hours of drills a day. Long shots, cuts, banks, and caroms. But I did understand everything you said and will put it to good use, thank you so much.

If anyone else would like to contribute a bit of knowledge to the pool, no complaints here.

Thank you,
Marc

bluewolf
03-31-2003, 06:26 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote q4summit:</font><hr> I played my buddy in bank pool today. We finished with him sinking the 8 in an impressive 3 rail bank that kicked the 8 across all 9 feet dead into the pocket. I still had 6 balls on the table.

Marc <hr /></blockquote>

I am a beginning banker myself. I just do the easy ones and kind of look at the diamonds on where I need to cut the ob. It sounds to me that your friend is advance. I wonder if it would be better to work on easy ones first, unless you alredy know these.

Laura

Deeman
03-31-2003, 06:59 AM
Marc,

I would recommend you play a little one pocket as a part of your bank training. It can be frustrating to just hit banks all the time and this gives you a game to play that will pretty rapidly improve your banking and position strategy as well. One pocket can be frustrating as well but you can start by playing someone who is a little more advanced than you but not a killer.

You need to develop a feel of what speed, spin and stroke do to a ball off the cushion and one pocket teaches that very well. Another inportant point is, make sure you are paying attention to your misses! If you learn from each one, you'll get better. If you just say, "Hell, I missed again!" you won't make important mental adjustments in you shots.

Good luck.....

Dee

NH_Steve
03-31-2003, 07:11 AM
It's great to use an equal angle banking system (like the mirror), but you have to learn to adjust:

For short angles:
1) Object ball English can shorten (with reverse), or lengthen (with running) the rebound angle.
2) Harder speed appears to shorten the rebound angle

For long angles:
1) Slower speed appears to lengthen the rebound angle

You get English on the object ball slightly by using the opposite English on the Cue, but you get more English on the object ball by friction from cutting the ball. Using outside English on cuts helps compensate for the English induced throw produced by the cut.

To play position off of banks, you will need to learn all the different ways to hit the same bank shot -- hard, soft, inside &amp; outside &amp; top and bottom. But as a beginner banker, try medium speed and a little top or bottom outside English on short angle banks, and straight bottom (just below center -- not power draw) on open angle banks, that's the most natural, IMO.

snipershot
03-31-2003, 08:17 AM
Well put.

One of my favorite ways to learn banks was very simple. I just laid out a bank I had troubles with or didn't yet know and shot till I made it, I would then try getting it 3 times in a row, 5 times etc...

As simple as it is this was the way I learned how to bank, you gotta challenge yourself and stay motivated. There's also about a million different drills in books/ on the net that are very useful.

socrates
03-31-2003, 01:19 PM
Some questions to ask yourself and some ideas to consider:

Ultimately the archer aims at himself.

Zen in the Art of Archery.

Become an impartial observer - don't attach emotion to the outcome.

A miss is neither good nor bad, it is just a miss.
As Fred Angir would say when you lose don't lose the lesson.

Thomas Edison replied when asked why he continued to work on the electric light bulb after his 1000 attempt had failed replied - "I have not failed, I have merely discovered the thousanth way it will not work."

Your attitude determines your altitude.

Let the frustration go, observe, learn and adjust and above all have fun and enjoy the journey.

Good Luck.

q4summit
03-31-2003, 01:19 PM
Thank you all for your imput, much appreciated. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Marc

03-31-2003, 03:28 PM
One factor about banks that is often neglected is draw and follow on the cue ball. Draw widens the angle, follow shortens it. This can be very useful for position. But for now I would work on the basic centerball hits with natural angles.

qSHAFT
03-31-2003, 06:24 PM
I believe a lot can be learned about banks by taking the cue ball out of the equation.

Just shoot the object ball off a cushion and into the pocket. Hit it with no english and use follow (half way between middle and the top of the ball). The follow will emulate the natural roll that the object ball would shortly take after being hit with the cue ball, and so should follow that path whether hit directly of with the cue ball.

Once this method has taught you the correct cushion contact points then you just have to bring the cue ball back into the equation. If you hit the shot with a medium pace and a minute amount of outside english then the cushion aim point should be dead on. I say to use a tad of outside english to avoid applying inadvertant side spin to the object ball through collision-induced throw of the cue/object ball cut. So the cue rolls off the object ball rather than dragging it.

Cheers - qSHAFT