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04-01-2003, 05:25 AM
Can anyone enlighten me on what a "Slip Stroke" is and how it's accomplished? I'm hearing more and more about the great players that used it, but not much about how to recognize it.

Tom_In_Cincy
04-01-2003, 07:25 AM
The Slip Stroke was recently discussed.

This is a link to thread. Enjoy

http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=ccb&Number=64366&Forum =All_Forums&Words=slip%20stroke&Match=Entire%20Phr ase&Searchpage=1&Limit=25&Old=3months&Main=64366&S earch=true#Post64366

DSAPOLIS
04-01-2003, 11:09 AM
The August 1994 edition of BD, George Fels did an article on the late Cowboy Jimmy Moore's slip stroke. In that article, the slip stroke is defined as such:

"The pool expert holds his cue at one place for his practice strokes, but slips back to a lower place just before delivery; thus the player recreates the comfort of his preparatory strokes for his delivery, and, with just a subtle shift in rhythm, adds power at the same time."
- George Fels, Strokes of Genius, Billiard Digest, August 1994

George also goes on to explain that this stroke would be nearly impossible to learn consciously, and compared it to trying to write without crossing your t's or dotting your i's.

Having been on the recieving end of Jimmy Moore's slips stroke more times than I cared to, I remember drawing Jimmy Moore in the first round of a tournament in El Paso, Texas back in 1989. I went up to Randy Goettlicher and said, "Damn, what bad luck I have. I just drew Cowboy Jimmy Moore in the first round."
To which Randy so eloquently replied, "What an honor!"
At the age of 78. Jimmy Moore plowed through me, and close to a hundred other players to win the tournament.

To watch that stroke, and the delivery of Cowboy Jimmy Moore, I was mesmerized! I do not believe I have ever witnessed another stroke like that - EVER!!!!

JohnnyP
04-01-2003, 01:50 PM
David:

Any videos of a good slip stroke artist in action that you can recomend?

Wayne Norcross runs the tournaments at Danny K's here in Orange, CA, and I get to see him use it.

DSAPOLIS
04-02-2003, 09:08 PM
Johnny,
I'm not aware of any videos of Moore in particular, but I believe that Bert Kinister covers the slip stroke in one of his videos, but I'm not sure about that. The main thing about this stroke, is that it cannot be taught, and even if it is, the odds are against it doing anything positive for your game if it does not come natural to you. If it does not come naturally, abandon the thought of trying to emulate it, or force it into your repertoire. It won't happen, and you'll frustrate yourself attempting to make it work. I believe that the mental game, breathing techniques, and balance ultimately control the rhythm of your body movements and your stroke. With that in mind, all of our rhythms are unique to each of us. In my articles on "Breathing" and "Center of Mass" I touch upon the techniques for "centering" one's body balance and breathing to create the environment for optimum performance and "Dead Stroke". For each individual, depending on different factors, rhythm will vary, due to steps between shots, losing focus and reapplying focus (the time for this varies from player to player) all of this will effect the player's rhythm and ultimately will show in their stroke. For this reason, it is extremely important to remain natural in your approach to your stroke. Remember that just as "Dead Stroke" is an altered state of consciousness, so is choking. Choking occurs when the wires start to smoke and the brain has trouble sending the body the correct messages. When attempting to incorporate a stroke such as the slip stroke, the player would have to "consciously" be aware of the mechanics if the stroke was not natural. After a while, there is a chance that through repetition that the stroke may become second nature, but it is not likely. Under pressure, the player will ultimately resort back to the natural technique, regardless of what he has tried to force into his game. The main characteristic of Dead stroke is that we are operating on autopilot, or unconsciously. That is why it is important to take your natural abilties and traits and develop them and make them stronger, in much the same way a bodybuilder would develop a muscle group.

JohnnyP
04-03-2003, 02:36 AM
Okie dokie. Gotta give it a try in secret, though. /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

q4summit
04-03-2003, 02:55 AM
I tried it (since I got no real stroke yet).
I hate it.
I suggest avoid it. It seems to be one of those bad habbits that players have picked up then made it work for their game. I'd say just have a loose/soft grip and keep a steady shot and you'll be fine.

Marc

04-03-2003, 05:04 AM
Thanks for everyone's input, it really helped. I agree with q4summit, on the surface it appears to be a quirk which has crept into a small handful of players' techniques and given a fancy name with magical powers. I also agree that what ever quirks get into a technique and work are not conscious and best not tried to be emulated.

bluewolf
04-03-2003, 06:07 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote JohnnyP:</font><hr> David:

Any videos of a good slip stroke artist in action that you can recomend?

Wayne Norcross runs the tournaments at Danny K's here in Orange, CA, and I get to see him use it.
<hr /></blockquote>

If you read the thread in blue mentioned by Tom in Cincy? (all these flags are getting confusing LOL), there are references to accustat tapes which can be purchased which show players that use this method.

Laura

04-04-2003, 07:13 PM
A cardinal rule in golf, is never regrip, which is what a slip stroke is, don't do it, learn instead how to hold the cue correctly, then you will see how this is now un necessary. Fast Larry Guninger www.fastlarrypool.com (http://www.fastlarrypool.com)
VENI, VIDI, VICI....

DSAPOLIS
04-05-2003, 04:52 PM
Fast Larry wrote:
A cardinal rule in golf, is never regrip, which is what a slip stroke is, don't do it, learn instead how to hold the cue correctly, then you will see how this is now un necessary.
================================================== ==========

You are incorrect. It is a stroke, not a grip, pool not golf, and for the players that use this stroke, it is not a flaw, but a characteristic of their game that works for them despite what the experts perceive to be acceptable. Earlier in this thread I gave the best description I have heard of this stroke, which was written by George Fels during an article about the late Cowboy Jimmy Moore.

"The pool expert holds his cue at one place for his practice strokes, but slips back to a lower place just before delivery; thus the player recreates the comfort of his preparatory strokes for his delivery, and, with just a subtle shift in rhythm, adds power at the same time."
-- George Fels, Strokes of Genius, Billiards Digest, August 1994

I had the distinct pleasure of playing Jimmy Moore on countless occasions, and believe me, his slip stroke worked beautifully. Here is what they wrote about his accomplishments in the BCA Hall of Fame:

JIMMY MOORE (born 1911): Although Moore never won a world title, he claimed the National Pocket Billiards Championship in a 3,000-point match win over Luther Lassiter in 1958. At the National Invitational Pocket Billiards Championship in New York City in 1965, he easily outdistanced a straight-pool field which included the strongest players of the period such as Joe Balsis, Ed Kelly, Lou Butera, Luther Lassiter and Eddie Taylor. He is a five-time runner-up in world 14.1 championship play. He posted high finishes in many other major events in the '50s and '60s.

I think that his stroke worked pretty good. As I stated earlier, this stroke works best when it comes natural to the player, and is almost impossible to "learn". Dismissing this stroke as an aweful flaw is way off base. Jimmy Moore's stroke was a thing of beauty. When Jimmy was sending the balls into the subway, you could not help but marvel at the way his stroke worked.

Rod
04-05-2003, 05:51 PM
David,
Don't bother with this guy. I've hit a few balls with Moore and watched him play many times. Jimmy without a doubt had one of the best strokes I have ever seen. If you looked up smooth in a dictionary his name should be there! My favorite saying for his stroke was, Poetry in Motion. I've played with a slip stroke since the begining but would never consider teaching such.

Rod