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TomBrooklyn
03-22-2002, 07:58 AM
Although it's pretty common in straight pool, intentionally fouling is not as common in most of the other pool games. What was a situation where your best shot was an intentional foul? What was the setup? How did it play out?

Doctor_D
03-22-2002, 08:20 AM
Good morning:

In a 9 Ball tournament my opponent broke and pocketed the 7 ball leaving the 9 ball sitting in the jaws of the corner pocket with the 2 ball about 6" away. She had a tough shot to pocket the 1 ball, tried and missed. However, her miss left me totally hooked for any kind of shot on the 1 ball. With no desire to give her ball in hand I intentionally pocketed the 9 ball to eliminate the 2 ball / 9 ball combination. I did win this game and the match.

Dr. D.

cuechick
03-22-2002, 11:38 AM
I have used this stadegy a lot in 8 ball. Sometimes actually pocketing my opponents last open ball so they can not break out the 8 that is tied up with another ball. I remember doing this when I had a ball hanging knowing it was impossible to safe me. (I won that one) I have also often intentionally pushed the 8 ball in front of another ball, to prevent my oponent from running out.
The key is remaining patient and letting the other player make the mistake. I have won quite a few games using intentional fouls.

In 9 ball tieing up a ball or pushing a ball to a rail that will present a problem further down the line can be effective. I did this last night in a match, when I was snookered on the 4 ball. I saw a fairly easy run out, but pushed the 6 ball to the rail, knowing it would take perfect positioning (and 3 balls to get it) to get to the 7 ball.
IMO- Pool is chess.

03-22-2002, 12:02 PM
I can truthfully say that my two greatest shots in pool were intentional fouls. Here's one:

I was playing an exhibition match against Tom Rossman once when I was in college. We were playing 8-ball, and he had solids. As you'll see from the diagram, I was not in good shape. It was my shot, and I played the following:

http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html

START(
%A[3E0%CD0Z7%DL9D7%FJ9Z1%Hf8Z5%KL1C9%MK7[1%P_0M2%W[9F7%X^6L4
%_D8Y3%`L8J9%a[0E7
)END

In one shot, I took away his entire advantage; namely, his two open balls. I knew I couldn't win with those balls on the table. The shot itself wasn't so hard, but I was really happy that I saw it. Tom was pretty impressed :-)

- Steve

Barbara
03-22-2002, 12:21 PM
In this one game of 9-ball, my opponent did a 2nd consecutive foul and sent the OB into a cluster of balls on the short rail. I covered up the OB with another ball, forcing her to take a 3rd foul and loss of game.

Barbara~~~gave herself an "atta girl" on that one...

03-22-2002, 12:27 PM
Atta girl, Barbara...

Hope your opponent has learned it's never a good idea to take an intentional second foul by sending the next object ball into a cluster!

- Steve

Barbara
03-22-2002, 12:41 PM
Steve,

She didn't intentionally take her second foul. If I remember correctly, I hooked her and it happened that she sent the OB went into a very ugly cluster. I took the intentional foul by covering up the OB with another ball.

If she had been on one foul only, she could've blasted the pack apart to avoid the 3rd foul. But as it was, she was on two.

Barbara~~~saw that on tv once and remembered it....

03-22-2002, 02:52 PM
Hey Tom,
PLaying some 1-hole, 1 ball is left on the table, opponent shoots a very tough long cut to his pocket. He misses and the ball stays in the jaws of his pocket, while the cue ball comes to rest in the far corner pocket on the same side of the table as my opponents pocket resulting in me being corner hooked. He made some wise crack as I approached the table.
I took my cue, addressed the shot and proceeded to pinch the cue ball between my cue tip and the end of the long rail(the pocket jaws) causing the cue ball to be frozen to the long rail. This resulted in anger and frustration in my opponent, which may have affected his concentration just a little /ccboard/images/icons/laugh.gif
I figured that was the highest percentage move to still have a chance to win the match. I spotted a ball, and soon after, so did he.

03-22-2002, 03:09 PM
Although I don't recall specifics, I have done this many times in 9-ball and 10-ball. When I am hopelessly buried, with almost no chance of making a good hit AND leaving my opponent tough, and the balls are laid out good for my opponent. I'll sometimes intentionally foul to tie something up. At least it gives me a fair chance to get back to the table.

Barbara
03-22-2002, 08:27 PM
Damn Steve! What a helluva shot! With ball-in-hand, did he hook you, and if so, please diagram that.

Barbara~~~oh boy oh boy...learning new tricks....

Sid_Vicious
03-22-2002, 08:50 PM
I can't understand this, if the intentional foul on your part coughed up BIH, then how did it keep the player in trouble? Was the cluster so tight that there was no room to set the CB???sid

Sid_Vicious
03-22-2002, 08:52 PM

Barbara
03-22-2002, 09:01 PM
sid,

Becaue SHE was on two fouls when I made my intentional first foul to make her foul out on 3.

Barbara~~~doesn't do the 3-foul thing often, so remembers those well....

Sid_Vicious
03-22-2002, 09:18 PM
Call me dense here...if you intentionally fouled then was she not able to pick up the CB, place it where she could hit the OB and.....not foul #3? I miss how you forced here to foul, what's the deal???sid

cuechick
03-22-2002, 09:24 PM
I hand the same question and I am assuming that even with ball in hand it was impossible to make a good hit on the OB....

Barbara
03-22-2002, 09:27 PM
sid,

On her second foul, she knocked the OB into a cluster on the short rail where the OB was flanked/sandwiched between two other balls. I had BIH and drove another ball in front of the OB, completely blocking it off from hitting it clean. It was the most flagrant foul I've ever done and I consider it the most strategic intentional foul I've ever taken.

Here's a WEI diagram: START(
%CC7P0%EE8O8%FC4Q4%GD3N3%HL2N1%IN4X8%PH8N6%WF9O5%X H2N8%YD5P1
%ZE0O8%[D9O9%\E2O6
)END

Barbara~~~sorry I was little vague....

cuechick
03-22-2002, 09:33 PM
That's what I thought you meant, tap tap tap (that is me tapping my cue) well done! I will have to remember that one!

Sid_Vicious
03-22-2002, 09:42 PM
I'd have said "You are not a nice woman" with praise and a bit of a wispy smile at the corner of my mouth. Very SMART,,,do what you gotta do...sid~~~sees the results even before they happen in rolls I get like this

Sid_Vicious
03-22-2002, 10:09 PM
Looked at your WEI layout and curious...where would you have gone on that shot if there was no 3-foul rule in effect? I guess it requires some on-going sequence of events for the aftermath but I find this interesting to ponder...sid

Troy
03-22-2002, 10:54 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: TheShot:</font><hr>
I took my cue, addressed the shot and proceeded to pinch the cue ball between my cue tip and the end of the long rail(the pocket jaws) causing the cue ball to be frozen to the long rail. This resulted in anger and frustration in my opponent, which may have affected his concentration just a little /ccboard/images/icons/laugh.gif
I figured that was the highest percentage move to still have a chance to win the match. I spotted a ball, and soon after, so did he. <hr></blockquote>
Scott...

Not to start another rules debate, but I have seen some 1-Pocket match-ups where that would have been called "unsportsman-like conduct" and/or "not a legal shot".

On the other hand, I have taken an intentional foul in 1-P early in the game when my opponent left me with no defensive shot and he had one or more balls near his pocket. I would simply send the CB gently to the pack and let him shoot out of it.

Troy

03-22-2002, 11:06 PM
HI troy,
I can see how that might seem as"dirty pool" but in order to have a chance to win I had no other choice (plus, after his smarta$$ comment, he deserved it. If you were in the same position, what would you have done? Kicking at it and following the CB in was an extremely low percentage shot, and there was no way to jar it out of the pocket.
As for being "not a legal shot", it wasn't. it was an intentional foul.

Troy
03-23-2002, 11:09 AM
Here's Grady's take on the shot described ---

"The rule here is crystal clear, Troy. If he "pinched" the cue ball, meaning he slowly and easily pressed it
against the corner, he owes one and it's still his shot."

Barbara
03-23-2002, 11:13 AM
sid,

It was 9-ball, so of course the 3-foul rule was in effect. If it had been 8-ball, I would have had a different strategy altogether.

Barbara

Tom_In_Cincy
03-23-2002, 01:10 PM
Yours was the 1st foul, if your opponent knew the rules, he would have just tapped the cue ball and put up a ball behind yours. You were on foul #1, he is now on foul #1, both of you are spotting balls after fouls. Guess who gets to foul number #3 first... You do, and in 1 hole,, like 9 ball.. 3 consecutive fouls is LOSS OF GAME.

Tom_In_Cincy
03-23-2002, 01:14 PM
Tony,
Which rule are you saying is Crystal Clear? or are you just quoting Grady and I should be asking him?

03-23-2002, 01:21 PM
Hi Tom. I know nothing at all about one-pocket, but after they each fouled once, I'm guessing that the poster then moved the cueball well out of the jaws. That's his second foul, but now his opponent would owe 2 balls, and only the one is open.

He's still in bad shape, but at least his opponent needs to make some sort of a good shot to win the game.

- Steve

Q-guy
03-23-2002, 01:30 PM
If I understand the situation, The Shot does not plan on scratching three times. He just wants the other player to need more then the hung ball to win. Once a few balls are spotted and can't be run easily he will put the cueball back in play. He may still lose, but from where he was this is the only thing that would have kept him in the game. Taking a foul in one pocket can be strong. Players seem to be afraid to owe balls. It is better then the guy running five on you.

Tom_In_Cincy
03-23-2002, 01:38 PM
Q-Guy, you and Steve L. are correct.
I was just adding an additional scenerio. But thanks for the feedback as always..

03-23-2002, 01:45 PM
Hello all,
Here is what happened after my intentional foul. My opponent tried to kick three rails (hitting the opposite long rail twice) He missed and spotted his ball. I then pocketed the ball that was in his jaws and put whitey on the short rail in the kitchen, leaving him the shot at the two spotted balls. He still needs one and I need two. This option is still better than conceding the loss IMHO. A few of the players watching thought it was a very intelligent move.
Dirty or not, what other option was there?

Troy
03-23-2002, 01:56 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr> Tony,
Which rule are you saying is Crystal Clear? or are you just quoting Grady and I should be asking him?
<hr></blockquote>

Grady's response is in quotes.

cheesemouse
03-23-2002, 02:09 PM
Tom and The Shot,
If I switched from my favorite game, 9-ball, and made one-hole my game I think it would take years for me to learn all the moves. I wish I lived where I could test my 1-p skills and where I could watch the moves of this great game.

Q-guy
03-23-2002, 02:21 PM
There is nothing dirty about making a smart shot that is within the rules. I guess a pitcher is playing dirty if he puts a batter on instead of pitching to him. I don't know where the term "Dirty pool" ever came from. I still hear it except it is now called un-sportsman like conduct. There is a deference between playing smart and being un-sportsman like.

Alfie
03-23-2002, 07:09 PM
Did the opponent try to jump out of the safety?

03-23-2002, 10:48 PM
It is often good strategy to take a foul in One Pocket.When it's the "end game" if the cue ball ends up cornerhooked while your opponent has his game ball hung up in his pocket obviously you must take a scratch or you will lose the game on the next shot.You cannot take two scratches in a row by again cornerhooking him or you may lose on three fouls in a row.You will take a second scratch, pushing the cue ball to the middle of the end rail. You will need 3 balls while he needs two but he still has a ball hung up in his pocket.You have to hope that he doesn't get out.
Another option is: You take one foul, cornerhooking him and when he takes a foul, which takes him off the hill, you take a kick at his hung-up ball.