View Full Version : 760 or 860 Simonis

04-02-2003, 12:41 PM
I have a valley cougar bar box, the felt on it is still ok but very slow. I've tried to iron, brush, vacuum, and even sprayed it with some felt conditioning stuff I got out of Mullers. This all helps some (very little) but in no time at all it is back to Slow. The cloth is still very tight and the cushion are in good shape. I don't know what type of cloth is on it, but there are a lot of fibers in it (looks fury). If the tables I play on in league were as slow I wouldn't mind, but it always takes me forever to get used to them when I go and play once a week or at a tournament. I can put the cue ball just about anywhere I want on my table at home were I play 90% of the time, but when I get on the faster cloth I seem to always over hit or I get surprised by where the Q ball goes, By the end of the night I am shooting better on them again or finally get used to them, but only after a few stupid mistakes on my shape. Very frustrating for me to ruin a good run. /ccboard/images/graemlins/mad.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/mad.gif

Unless someone has some other info on how to speed it up I am going to put some other cloth on it so my practice table is more consistent to what I play on competitively.

I've seen quite a few posts on Simonis 860 and 760. Looks like that is by far the favorite of most everyone on this board. What is the difference? I think the 760 is faster? I can get them for $145. Is that a fair price? /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Thanks for listening to me bitch. Any help would be appreciated. I'm going to hate ripping off the tight cloth but in my mind it's junk if it don't play the way it should. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif


04-02-2003, 12:56 PM
To me cushions are always a suspect on a valley. I doubt you would want to put 760 on a bar box it could make it too fast. 860 IMO is a good choice. It's a little heavier than 760 and wears well. You say you can get them for $145, what is them? Is that the cloth? If so that's high for cloth only.


04-02-2003, 01:09 PM
According to Simonis.com the 860 was designed especially for 9ball. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif , and it is slightly slower than 760. I just ordered the 860 for my valley BB. I figured it would be fast enuff for me, but not over board like some tables I have played on. The cost was 129.00 for the felt through my PH. I dont think you can go wrong playin on Simonis. Alot of other factors tie into the speed, but the quality of the cloth is superb.

04-02-2003, 01:47 PM
Find out what cloth your playing on most of the time and put that cloth on your home table.The 860 is the most popular around here, so thats what I put on the home table and now I only have to adjust for room conditions.

04-02-2003, 02:07 PM
The majority of the tables I play on use 860.

04-03-2003, 01:05 PM
Either 760 or 860 will work, the 760 is faster than the 860, so it's a preference thing. The main thing is put on Simonis. Fast Larry

04-03-2003, 10:01 PM
There are two types of billiards cloth, worsted, and non worsted.

Look at the cloth used in fine men's suits, that is 'worsted wool'. Worsted wool has a tight knit and does not have a 'nappy' finish or feel. Good worsted wool is sheer, smooth, drapes well, and is durable.

Non-worsted cloth is cheap, has a fuzzy feel to it, is prone to pilling (think of those nubby things you shave off a sweater), is much slower and is not as durable as worsted wool. Think of the typical shag rug cloth found on bar tables in your average dive bar.

There are two excellent manufacturers of billiard cloths, Simonis (Belgium), and Gorina (Spain).

Simonis is a Belgian manufacturer. Simonis 760 is a very fast cloth for pocket billiards (pool), IMHO it is not a suitable cloth for a bar table. 860 is fast, plays very well and is last a reasonably long time.

Gorina (perhaps better known in the US as Granito) is a Spanish manufacturer. Their Granito "Basalt" cloth was the choice for the 2001 World Games in Akita, Japan. Gorina's Tournament 2000 cloth is IMO faster than Simonis 760, and again, I would not recommend it, (or 760), for a bar table. Gorina Granito Basalt is my personal favorite billiard cloth. Basalt plays very well, speed is just a smidgen faster than Simonis 860, and it lasts longer than 860, while being a little less expensive than Simonis. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif


04-04-2003, 06:32 PM
Dear Fats, when I am in NYC every 90 days, I stay in secacus, and I play 3 cushion, maybe we should roll some around some time.

I have had considerable experience with both cloths for over a decade, both mfgrs provide me cloths for events, or for shows or TV appearances. I change my home cloth every 90 days. Trying to get a bunch of fine players to agree on which cloth is best is impossible, you get l0 players together, you can't get 50% of them to agree on what color of chalk to use.

Here is what I think, which is just my feel, with no testing involved. The Simonis 860 is the same as the Gorina Basalt, the Simonis 760 is the same as the Granito 2000, and the Simonis 300 is the same as the Granito M. As far as speed goes, they are too close to call, but I realize most pro's, feel the M is a tad faster than the 300, but not enough to brag about. This is achieved because Granito does not do a final shave, which the
simonis does, which produces a wave in their cloth, and the Simonis lays perfectly flat, with no wave, so the Granita give you a couple of ball turns, or creep at the end of the roll, which you no doubt have observed, but perhaps did not understand what you were seeing. This creep is not good, and it can also cause the CB to tail off, which is common.
Best Wishes, Fast Larry Guninger www.fastlarrypool.com (http://www.fastlarrypool.com)