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NBC-BOB
04-04-2003, 01:13 PM
How are people finding the clubs now that the new law is in place.Are most places obeying the law or waiting for the so called 30 day grace period when the fines start being issued. Personally I can't wait to checkout some of the clubs in the city.

04-04-2003, 02:07 PM
At Amsterdam West the other day, I was surprised to see a notice above the urinals saying that they're going to enforce the law and offering smokers tables near the door so they can hustle down to the street for a butt. There were a few wafting fumes while some biz was being conducted and the place was nearly empty, but otherwise the air was clear that day.
Thought it would be roundly ignored, but guess the law's like the 3-foul rule ... best not to give a couple and get yourself hooked.

9 Ball Girl
04-04-2003, 04:20 PM
Well, at the tourney I help run in Queens last night, I walked in at about 9PM and left at about 3AM--I DID NOT SMELL LIKE A CIGARETTE! Eureka!!!! My eyes and my contacts were happy! Although I held my breath when I walked in because there were quite a few people in the vestibule area smoking. My eyes and my contacts were happy! /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Wendy~~I can see clearly now the smoke is gone... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

CarolNYC
04-05-2003, 05:08 AM
The laws are being obeyed!:)
Have a nice day!
Carol

Hopster
04-05-2003, 05:21 PM
The laws are being obeyed!:) <---Carol

Thats a shame.

L.S. Dennis
04-05-2003, 05:32 PM
Being from Califonia I can tell you you're going to love this law if you're a non smoker.

There will be some people who will defy the law for a while but CA experience tells that these people will all eventually comply.

Now if we could just get people not talk on cell phones in public places, oh well I guess that would be asking too much!

04-05-2003, 06:02 PM
hehehehe ok smokers don't break your cue when you have the urge. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I assume it will be hard for smokers but it will help them cut down. Lord knows I smoke like a train and need to cut back some, so this smoking ban is a good thing I think /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

q4summit
04-06-2003, 06:11 AM
Personally, I think it's awesome. Can be bad for business but great for playing. I recently took a trip to NYC for the first time over spring break.. went to Amsterdam West.. LOVED IT! I considered it a real poolhall in my opinon, better than anything i've played at in Co (aside from Mechem's). Few smoking, just the way I like it.

Marc

Rich R.
04-06-2003, 07:37 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Hopster:</font><hr> The laws are being obeyed!:) &lt;---Carol

Thats a shame.
<hr /></blockquote>
Do you really think a business owner is going to risk his/her license to all some one to smoke.
I don't think so!

Fran Crimi
04-06-2003, 07:58 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Hopster:</font><hr> The laws are being obeyed!:) &lt;---Carol

Thats a shame.
<hr /></blockquote>
Do you really think a business owner is going to risk his/her license to all some one to smoke.
I don't think so! <hr /></blockquote>


I saw a story on the news last night where tavern owners are complaining that their businesses were down 30% and more this past week. The bar tenders and waiters and waitresses are complaining about less tips. The non-smoking customers who were interviewed were very happy, the smoking customers said they'll have one drink and leave.


Fran

Rich R.
04-06-2003, 08:17 AM
Fran, I think that will change as people get more used to the law. Everything will balance out after a while.
Some smokers will come back and stay longer. Some non-smokers will start to visit places that they were avoiding because of the smoke.
JMHO.

Fran Crimi
04-06-2003, 10:26 AM
I hope so, Rich. Some tavern owners survive month to month. Hopefully they'll have enough financial resources to hang in there to weather the storm.

Fran

TomBrooklyn
04-06-2003, 10:28 AM
Communists.

cheesemouse
04-06-2003, 10:43 AM
HAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!! Thanks for the laugh Tom...... /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Hopster
04-06-2003, 12:36 PM
Do you really think a business owner is going to risk his/her license to all some one to smoke.
I don't think so! &lt;---Rich R

Communists. &lt;--Tombrooklyn

Oh people will smoke in a lot of places just like they still do in california, it will still go on.
People have been smoking in bars for the last 100 years and all of a sudden this germ Bloomberg is going to come along and say "No more smoking" and he thinks this will get him elected to another term ? Everybody hates him in New York anyway, hopefully this just fuels the fire some more.
Tom might have been making a joke, maybe not. But i agree with the one word that he used : Communists. That describes New York and California to a T.
I also love their mentality on crime, lets outlaw guns but lets not use the death penalty and lets parole as many violent offenders as we can as quick as we can. Wonderful.
The worms got what they want, god bless em. I lived in the city for 28 years and thank god i left when i did, im only sorry it wasnt sooner.

L.S. Dennis
04-06-2003, 03:26 PM
Hopster
First of all you need to get some of your facts straight.
One, Neither guns nor the death penalty are against the Law in California. Smoking in public places is however and this is supported by an overwhelming majority of voters in this state. The most recents surveys all indicate that businesses have under this law! Oh sure there were some who vowed not to go to bars when it first passed, but they all came back in a very short time, trust me on that one.

If you think this is communism, well then I got some good beach front property in Arizona I'd like to sell you!

Hopster
04-06-2003, 04:04 PM
Hopster
First of all you need to get some of your facts straight.
One, Neither guns nor the death penalty are against the Law in California. Smoking in public places is however and this is supported by an overwhelming majority of voters in this state. The most recents surveys all indicate that businesses have under this law! Oh sure there were some who vowed not to go to bars when it first passed, but they all came back in a very short time, trust me on that one.

If you think this is communism, well then I got some good beach front property in Arizona I'd like to sell you! &lt;--L.S.Dennis

You should have said guns arent against the law YET. That state and New York are the ones that lobby against them the strongest. As far as the death penalty goes, sure they have it, but we will be playing three cushion billiards on the moon before either state EVER and i mean EVER uses them. And there are countless cases where they should be used.
Problem is the pols in both states dont have any balls at all and are scared to death of backlash. Theyre more worried about their careers, not whats right.
And that is a fact my friend.
Same as with smoking, they only care about the votes, not whats right.
Thats as close to communism as you can get.
Hold onto that property, you might need it one day.

L.S. Dennis
04-06-2003, 10:52 PM
Hopster,
Let's just say that you have a 'vivid immagination!' and leave it at that.

Actually you may be surprised to find out the California has used the death penalty more than you think, especially in recent times.

As a non smoker I have to admit that I'm not unhappy with California's non smoking law. I'm also happy that Sands Regency casino in Reno Nevada also banned cigarette smoking in the tournament room at their long standing bi-annual 9 ball tournament. There were a lot of grumbles for the first couple of years but like in California it came to be accepted. Now if they would just ban cell phones in public places as well, yeah I guess that would be asking too much!

Hopster
04-06-2003, 11:39 PM
I have a vivid imagination ? Thanks, L.S. i havent been told that before. I just like to think i see things as they are, not as how the Pols would have me see them.
Btw- When did Cal use the death penalty last ? If you mean recent times, i dont think 30 years ago qualifies.
The guy who kidnapped the little girl in San Diego and received it a few months ago. I would really like to see when they are going to follow through on that one, i really really would.
I like your comment about cell phones but i would rather see them prohibited in autos than public places. Even if it saves just one life , its well worth it. Thats one of the very few things i can credit New York with doing right.

CarolNYC
04-07-2003, 04:18 AM
Hi there,
Its really not a shame-actually its a good thing and it all boils down to respect of the law and your pool room owner-I know a few players who have children that come to the pool halls-at least now THEY will not be exposed to the second hand smoke and we all know how smokey a pool hall can get!As I said in another post, there is a number 1-866-NYQUITS who will send you free patches to help you stop,but just like any other habit, you have to want to stop!:)
Stay well,
Carol

CarolNYC
04-07-2003, 04:27 AM
Hi Rich,
I do not think the tavern owners are going to get accustomed to this law-I believe they will try to overrule,somehow-they are truly suffering,business wise! As a matter of fact, in yesterdays NY Daily News, a tavern owner,remanining anonymous, claimed when the law fell into effect, a usual Friday evening take of over 1000's, fell to 200! Big drop-so he allowed people to smoke(broke the rule)-business boomed-do not not know the tavern and dont care!
If anything, NY businesses really have to make money at this time!
See ya!:)
Carol

TomBrooklyn
04-07-2003, 04:38 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote CarolNYC:</font><hr>it all boils down to respect of the law and your pool room owner <hr /></blockquote>Laws that are unfair, inequitable, or infringe on the rights of free men should not be respected. They should be viewed with contempt and broken without guilt at any opportunity desired. They should be spoken out and lobbied against and by those who value their freedom. Even those who like this law or don't care either way, should be concerned because the next intrusion of Government on your private life may be for something you don't like.

On the other hand, respect for the rules set up by your pool hall owner should be respected. This actually applies even if his rules are unfair or inequitable. You see, you have a choice to enter his establishment. If you don't like his rules, you don't have to patronize his business. If you want to stand outside his door with a poster protesting his policies, you can even do that. However, if you enter, you are there at his pleasure. Or so it should be. Laws to the contrary are dispicable.

If he wants to prohibit smoking, than thats the way it is, whether there is a law about it or not. On the other hand, if his rules are that everyone who enters his room must smoke a cigar continuously, than thats the way it is too.

The key words there are his room. Not my room, not your room, not the Governor's room ...his room. You know, the room in the building he bought or leased, the room with the tables, balls, and cue sticks he paid for, the room where he pays the electric bill, the room where he pays the employees who work there, who also, of course, can decide of their own free will if they want to work there or not.

Expect to see bars and pool halls become private clubs with membership fees charged if this can be done to get around this Government intrusion. They may charge a 5.00 annual fee to become a member, and give a couple of hours of table time or a couple of free drinks to new members.

CarolNYC
04-07-2003, 04:41 AM
Hi there, I'd like to say when you mention"Nyers"remember, your mentioning the whole world, cause as you know, all you have to do is walk two blocks and your in another country!
Carol:):):):)

cuechick
04-07-2003, 07:30 AM
If people walked around with a can of lethal gas and sprayed it at will when ever and where ever they wanted, simply because they enjoyed pushing the button would all these pro smokers still fight for thier 'right' to do it? What about my 'right' not to be sprayed????There is no good argument for a PROVEN health hazard to be freely allowed in an enclosed PUBLIC place. Second hand smoke is 100 times more toxic than enhaled smoke, and when you chose to light up, that is your choice, if I am playing pool next to you, I have no choice.
I moved to a city with out even a non-smoking section, even the bathrooms allow smoking. My only choice is not to play, and that is not an option. I really left NYC at the wrong time...
Look at it this way, if you wanted to wrap your lips around a tail pipe and enhale (and if you think about it there is not much difference between that and cigs) go right ahead, but is it fair to back that car into a room and force everyone to enhale...I am sure some of you migth think it is. IMO it is my 'RIGHT" to a healthy playing enviroment that has been violated.

NBC-BOB
04-07-2003, 07:57 AM
Well I see there were a lot of reply's to my posting and a few different opinions as well.I think people will get use to the new law and return to the clubs soon.I've heard about people going to clubs in NJ so they can smoke.In Feb the NJ legislature introduced a nonsmoking bill and it's being pushed in part by the union worker's in atlantic city.
It looks like NJ will have some nonsmoking laws enacted by the end of the year.I guess if we lived in a perfect world the business owners, would of addressed the problem and given the customers(smokers &amp; nonsmokers)what they both wanted.Thank You all for replying.

Fran Crimi
04-07-2003, 08:32 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cuechick:</font><hr> IMO it is my 'RIGHT" to a healthy playing enviroment that has been violated.
<hr /></blockquote>

Well, the government and the constitution don't agree with you there. The reason for the smoking ban in private establishments has nothing to do with consumers unless it is in an essential place where consumers are forced to enter, such as an airport, train station, bus terminal, etc. As for businesses like taverns and pool rooms, the ban is to protect employees only because of their right to work, and those places become essential to them as employees. It's not about consumers at all in these types of places. Any indoor place where there are hired employees will be subject to the ban, which is why the gov't can't ban smoking in private homes. However, I think homes with household employees will probably be next on the list.

The big argument in court that will take place is small business owner rights vs. employee rights.

Fran

Ken
04-07-2003, 08:43 AM
cuechick, I'd really like to know what makes you believe that second hand smoke is 100 times more toxic than inhaled smoke. Is this the smoke that comes from the front and has never been inhaled? Or is it the smoke that has been exhaled and had all the good chemicals taken out of it? That statistic sounds very out of whack. I find it hard to believe that the filters reduce the toxins that much.

I have no sympathy for smokers who now have to suffer so much. You have brought this on yourselves. You will sit right next to someone and make sure that the smoke does not get in your face but have not the slightest concern that it is going into the face of the person sitting next to you or even 10 feet away. This is the most disgusting, inconsiderate act known to mankind that can be practiced in public and you couldn't care less. You deserve what you get and you could not get the government to act on this problem without your insistence on forcing those around you to become disgusted to the point of taking your privilege (not right) away.

The tobacco companies are cutting their own throats. If they put out a smoke that would go out after a while the problem would go away. It is the cigarettes that just sit and smolder until they are self-consumed that are the problem in pool halls. I watched Larry Lisciotti play this weekend and he had to have one going 10 feet away with the smoke wafting into my face and he very rarely got to enjoy it before he had to light another.

Smoking in a pool room is no different than smoking in a movie theatre or an airplane. You abuse the privilege and you lose it. That's the way government should work. It's the people speaking out not some legislators abusing their powers. Throw out the red herring of "the next thing will be something you like". If it is then I deserve it and I'll do it in private too. Smokers are so hooked they can't think logically.
KenCT

L.S. Dennis
04-07-2003, 08:53 AM
Hopster,
Well without trying to get too grimm on this board but you did ask when did California use the death penalty during the last 30 years. Here's the list, please take note:
California Executions Since 1978

POSTED: 1:01 p.m. PST January 13, 2003
UPDATED: 2:32 p.m. PST February 11, 2003


Name Date Received Date Executed

Robert Alton Harris 3/14/79 4/21/92

David Edwin Mason 1/27/84 8/4/93

William George Bonin 3/22/82 2/23/96

Keith Daniel Williams 4/13/79 5/3/96

Thomas M. Thompson 8/23/84 7/14/98

Kelvin Malone 6/22/81 1/13/99 (Missouri)

Jaturun Siripongs 5/2/83 2/9/99

Manuel Babbitt 7/15/82 5/4/99

Darrell Keith Rich 1/23/81 3/15/00

Robert Lee Massie 5/28/79 3/27/01

Stephen Wayne Anderson 7/30/81 1/29/02



BTW I too would like to see cell phones banned while driving, there is a bill in California right now that would do just that!

cuechick
04-07-2003, 09:41 AM
I got the stat from a current series of commercials where a baby is in a car and another where he is in a room with a parent smoking and the voice over explains how toxic 2nd hand smoke is, it was signifgantly more toxic than the smoke inhaled. I may have gotten the exact number wrong, but I think I am close.
I agree too, if smokers were a bit more considerate it might be more tollerable.
And Fran, I used the word 'right' becasue some other posters kept using this word...and regardless of the laws, I feel IMO that I do have a right to a healthy enviorment in a public place, whether or not I have a choice to be there. I choose to eat in restuarantes and expect my food to come from a clean kitchen, as I am sure do you. I just don't see why the type of enviorment makes a difference. It is an enclosed space, smokers certainly have a lot more options in a a pool hall that bands smoking than I did before. I have two, play and suck it up (literally) or not. Smokers can make the same option or play, step outside for a smoke and play some more. I have "sucked it up" for 7 years, now smokers can just deal with it.
Anyone who has walked through the Rivera, need only take one good whiff to see have an idea of what years of smoke can do, the place is like one big ashtray...

CarolNYC
04-07-2003, 10:08 AM
Cuechick,
I just want to point out that OUR air alone is hazardous-unless your in the mountains or trees or somewhere where there is an immense amount of oxygen, i dont think the non-smoking thing is going change what we breathe!:(Im sure many of us grew up with parents who smoked-and I know you've been to LA-correct? Oh yeah, real nice haze of fresh air!:):):)
Carol

Barbara
04-07-2003, 10:12 AM
It was wonderful to step out of Corner Billiards Saturday night and NOT REEK of smoke!!!

Ditto for Sunday!!

Barbara~~~didn't hit on the Tylenol Sinus medicine once!!

04-07-2003, 11:59 AM
I smoke and hate to have to step outside the pool hall and other places when I lite up but I have to admit I love that my clothes do not smell like an ash tray.

Ross
04-07-2003, 01:20 PM
I found the following from an Ontario online newspaper article about the recent banning of smoking in the workplace. Can't vouch for it's absolute validity, but it sounds reasonable:

"Studies indicate that second-hand-smoke is more toxic than the smoke inhaled directly by smokers. Second-hand smoke is emitted at a lower temperature, resulting in incomplete combustion and higher toxicity. Additionally, second-hand smoke particles are smaller and are thereby breathed deeper into the lungs, causing a non-smoker to inhale ten times more carbonylic compounds than a smoker inhales directly."

Hopster
04-07-2003, 01:43 PM
First of all L.S. let me say thank you for going out of your way to find these stats.
Now 11 people in 30 years ? I hardly think thats anything worth mentioning at all. In fact i think its downright pathetic. For that state it should be more like 1100, what do you think ?
Im strictly of the eye for an eye mentality, just so you know where im coming from.
Furthermore, i would be willing to bet a good amount that of these 11 they all asked for it themselves.
Anyway, like i said, thanks for the research.

Steve Lipsky
04-07-2003, 02:07 PM
I just want to say a few things about this debate:

1) Not all smokers are totally devoid of consideration.

2) Before I make this argument, I will say that I have access to NO statistics whatsoever: I believe the overwhelming majority of people who die from lung cancer each year are smokers. You can quote every magazine article in the world about how much more dangerous second-hand smoke is (10x, 100x, 1000x, etc...), but it doesn't change the fact that most of the people being hurt are the smokers themselves. When you "deduct" the nonsmokers who have made life choices like marrying a smoker or working in a cigar bar, I'm betting the number of nonsmokers dying from a smoking-related disease each year is quite low indeed. (This is not intended to justify these deaths; I just say it in rebuttal to the larger numbers we sometimes hear.)

All that being said, I don't terribly mind this new law, and I am a smoker. It's not been very difficult to adjust, in the end I will be healthier, and it's a cleaner environment for everyone.

- Steve

MarkUrsel
04-07-2003, 02:46 PM
...and I can vouch for the fact that it doesn't seem to affect Steve's game much. Sigh. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

-- Mark

Hopster
04-07-2003, 02:47 PM
Laws that are unfair, inequitable, or infringe on the rights of free men should not be respected. They should be viewed with contempt and broken without guilt at any opportunity desired. They should be spoken out and lobbied against and by those who value their freedom. Even those who like this law or don't care either way, should be concerned because the next intrusion of Government on your private life may be for something you don't like. &lt;--TomBklyn


Excellently said Tom !! My hats off to you brother.

Ken
04-07-2003, 08:38 PM
Excellent? Perhaps, but it doesn't apply to anti-smoking laws. There is no right of free men to smoke anywhere they want to. Get used to it.

Smokers have brought this on themselves and should have known better. They should have recognized that the privilege to smoke was being abused and done something about it themselves. Start by using products that will not sit and smoulder like incense, wasting the money they cost.

It started in the restaurants, went to the workplace. It's like a nightmare, and it will follow you everwhere you abuse the privilege for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
KenCT

Hopster
04-07-2003, 11:04 PM
for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. &lt;---KenCT

Catchy line, Ken. Use it often ?? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

shojingod
04-08-2003, 12:45 AM
Will it be hard to adjust. Yes. Was it a surprise. No. As much as we can identify with your beliefs the fact is the free market economy does have rules. When you go into business you agree, when you obtain your business license as well as liquor license to certain guidelines. These guidelines are to protect the community because your are a representative and licensed service individual of that community. As a business owner you must provide a safe environment for all your patrons and employees through the local health department guidelines. What is a really surprising is why these new health guidelines took so long with all the data that showed the negative impacts. You can named other substances(asbestos) which have been found to have a negative impact to ones health(possible) and they are removed the same year yet cigarettes have been proven to have a negative impact and people are ask to justify any legal changes to the health law. HELLO!

Smokers always say that they want absolute proof. Health guidelines are never ever made on absolutes they are made on possibilities of increase risks based on data collected.
One can be radiated 5 times the normal level and not develop cancer does that justify allowing people to be radiated 5 times the normal level. NO.

I guess you can compare it this way. You own a car. It is your car but you must follow the rules of the road in order to make sure people stay as safe as possible. You are appointed a license to run a business like you have a license to run a car(your car) just as long you follow the rules.

I love the smoking argument that the market should make the call is not only not wise but very very stupid. Capitalism as much as it can give it can take if not monitored. Just read the history of pollution probe if you don't believe me.

One thing more I can say is that no business or company can ever and I mean ever win a legal case against a health law based on the argument of financial loss or gains. That would never happen because the cost of such a legal loop-hole would justify on a bigger scale companies doing sea dumping,toxic waste dumping and go to the legal table with the; "We were losing money if we did not do it."

I chalenge anybody in this board to make a legally viable argument that would block a smoking health law.

The question here is really this.

Why does a business must be allowed to have smoking is really the argument. If you can answer that question in a way that does not have a relation to money. Hence your saying you are going to risk the health of your patron and employee for your financial well being. That is really the issue in the long run. Isn't it.

I believe many need to educate themselves to the realities of running a business. This also includes some business owners. I am much surprised how many are nieve.

CarolNYC
04-08-2003, 02:42 AM
Hey Steve,
I,too, believe the majority of people who smoke are not devoid of consideration-and I am a smoker,as you know! I like the rule and thought the Amsterdam looked quite air "clear",as well as the other pool halls-as for people who die from cancer, it works both ways,sadly to say! There are those who smoke and live forever and then those who are the purest souls in the world who wind up with a devastating,lifethreatening disease!Ironic and very,very sad!As for businesses allowing smoking in the workplace, the only one I know of is taverns!Drinking and driving is the BEST law they could've enforced because I believe this is the killer! Alcohol and driving ! Its never the one who is drunk, its always the innocent!
See ya in league!
Carol~thanks God daughters do not drink!:):):):)

TomBrooklyn
04-08-2003, 07:08 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> ...the government and the constitution don't agree with you there. The reason for the smoking ban in private establishments has nothing to do with consumers unless it is in an essential place where consumers are forced to enter, such as an airport, train station, bus terminal, etc. ...the ban is to protect employees only because of their right to work, and those places become essential to them as employees. The big argument in court that will take place is small business owner rights vs. employee rights.<hr /></blockquote>Well my whole argument above was unneccesary then. I am gratified that what I knew intuitively to be right and in accordance with the US Constitution is in fact as it should be. I would take it a step further now and stipulate that no one has a "right" to work in a particular place, they are there at the pleasure of their employer and everyone has the freedom to chose whom they work for.

Fran Crimi
04-08-2003, 07:25 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote TomBrooklyn:</font><hr> Well my whole argument above was unneccesary then. I am gratified that what I knew intuitively to be right and in accordance with the US Constitution is in fact as it should be. I would take it a step further now and stipulate that no one has a "right" to work in a particular place, they are there at the pleasure of their employer and everyone has the freedom to chose whom they work for. <hr /></blockquote>

What you're saying isn't quite true. You have to think it through a little better to see the Constitutional issues. The three main essentials are food, clothing and shelter. If in our efforts to obtain these, we are forced to endure health hazards due to no fault of our own, then our constitutional rights have been violated. Earning money to obtain food, clothing and shelter is considered a necessity. If business owners were permitted to allow smoking in their businesses, and let's say that all business owners decided to do so, then the entire population of workers would be forceably subjected to the health hazard of second hand smoke.

I think however, if you have a business with no employees, and it is not essential for your customers, you could make a valid case for allowing smoking.

Fran

Ken
04-08-2003, 08:32 AM
I know; it has a nice ring to it. Just popped into my head. Never used it before. I was tempted to respond to Larry with it but decided not to bring myself to his level.

I will admit that there are some considerate smokers out there. I notice them rarely and perhaps that's because they are considerate.

I know Tom keeps throwing out the statement that smoking is a right. I would like someone that feels that way to prove it for me.

I am not pleased that anti-smoking laws are sprouting up but the fact is that they used to smoke in elevators, airplanes and theatres. This wave of legislation hasn't much to do with the claims of dangerous second-hand smoke. That's just the catalyst. It is primarily a backlash from people who have had to endure decades of inconsiderate smokers and who are now in the majority. They just don't see why they should have to put up with it anymore. It's a shame that it has had to come to this.

The tobacco companies and the smokers have brought it on themselves.
KenCT

nAz
04-08-2003, 12:03 PM
So just curious will this open the door to have children taken a way from parents that smoke at home or has this already happen?
BTW i think everyone will get use to this law in about five months but i can't help and feel bad for those restaurant owners that might have spent 200 k to build separate smoking areas. ouch

Hopster
04-08-2003, 12:16 PM
I know; it has a nice ring to it. Just popped into my head. Never used it before. I was tempted to respond to Larry with it but decided not to bring myself to his level. &lt;--Ken



Well, to me its just another case of infringement, thats all.
I used that line on a few guys one time and they looked at me and said " What the F### are ya talking about" lol. You had to be there.

Hopster
04-08-2003, 12:20 PM
So just curious will this open the door to have children taken a way from parents that smoke at home or has this already happen? &lt;--Naz

Oh dont worry Naz, that will come along sooner or later. If pukes like Bloomberg or Schumer or Clinton think it will get them one extra vote they will try like hell to push it through.

Vicki
04-08-2003, 12:37 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote TomBrooklyn:</font><hr> Laws that are unfair, inequitable, or infringe on the rights of free men should not be respected. They should be viewed with contempt and broken without guilt at any opportunity desired. They should be spoken out and lobbied against and by those who value their freedom. <hr /></blockquote>

Are smokers the only ones entitled to freedom? Don't I have any rights? What about my kid? Is she entitled to any freedom? What about the 10 month old kid in the pool room last night? No rights? No freedom afforded to him?

I totally agree with you... but the fact is that there are more of us (non-smokers) than you (smokers). The fact that people can smoke in public places is unfair, inequitable, and infringes on my rights as a free man.

Maybe we should allow smoking in offices and other places of work? Maybe doctors and nurses should smoke in hospitals or at the very least in their private practice offices? Then mothers who smoked during their pregnancy could hold the cigarette for the doctor while he vaccinates the kids. Those snooty rich house wives should be able to smoke while they push their carts through the aisles at the Whole Foods Market, too! What fun. Maybe they should allow smoking at the gym!

Or maybe we should get with the times. They don't prescribe uppers and downers like aspirin to housewives anymore. Sitcom actors don't walk around like Jackie Gleason with a cocktail in one hand and a cigarette in the other because people don't smoke or drink like that anymore. I Love Lucy had twin beds for Ricky and Lucy but we watched them get drunk and emphysema every week. No one knew at the time but now we know that smoking kills people and so does drinking gallons of scotch and so does taking a pill just because your kids drive you nuts or your movie career takes off.

These laws prohibiting smoking in public places protect the majority of the people. I feel sorry for smokers that they are losing their habitat but, good lord, you can still smoke on the street. You can still smoke in your car. You can smoke at home! I don't have to go visit your house nor do I have to ask you for a ride to the pool room but I do have to breathe the air in the pool room once I get there. I do have to stink, I do have to leave feeling like someone packed an ashtray up my nose, I do have to have red eyes that burn, I do have to risk cancer from second hand smoke, and I do have to leave my kid at home or have her suffer the same consequences. I want her to play pool. I have played for 15 years. Her father played for 30 years. She should be able to wear her jacket into the pool room but she doesn't because it smells so bad when she leaves.

I respect your beliefs about this but I totally disagree. Saying that each business owner should have the right to set their own rules is just silly and short sighted. Should we allow restaurants to serve any old meat they find and kill in the alley behind their store? After all, I have a choice as to whether or not I want to eat there. Maybe they shouldn't have to provide a restroom for their patrons or sinks for the staff to wash their hands in. Maybe we should just but out and let business owners do what ever they want. You used the example about smoking a cigar continuously to be able to enter an establishment. Should the guy preparing your burger that you order in this establishment be smoking too? That's sanitary. Maybe that same proprietor should allow the food service staff to bring their pets to work with them.

If you want to open a private club and charge a membership fee then you be my guest and I won't join if smoking is allowed. I don't imagine it will be very easy to get or maintain a private club status or everyone would be doing it. But for business owners that want to call themselves a "Family Billiards Room" I will be very happy if they cannot allow smoking!

Way to go NYC! Now if only the Washington DC area would get on board.

Vicki

Fran Crimi
04-08-2003, 02:21 PM
Most definitely, children's rights are being violated by being forceablly exposed to second hand smoke. Unless the parents can prove it's a religious thing I'm sure at some point it will become illegal in homes with children.

Fran

L.S. Dennis
04-08-2003, 03:04 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Hopster:</font><hr>
Oh dont worry Naz, that will come along sooner or later. If pukes like Bloomberg or Schumer or Clinton think it will get them one extra vote they will try like hell to push it through.
<hr /></blockquote>

Can't speak for NY but in California we have the initiative and referendum process in which this law was voted in directly by the voters of the state. That's pure democracy working! Polls and politicaian be damned!

Fran Crimi
04-08-2003, 03:09 PM
Can we vote to outlaw Memphis? Man, that place is one big bad neighborhood.

Fran

nAz
04-08-2003, 03:09 PM
Now theres a twist it never occurred to me that someone might claim they need to smoke because of religious believes lol.
Ok does anyone know if all the middle eastern smoke houses in NYC have to comply with this law? they smoke charcoal apple core(taste Great) in a Hookah and some times tobacco. If they were not exempt they should try to work in the religious angle and see if that would fly.

04-08-2003, 03:20 PM
nAz I would love to try out that Hookah does it really "taste great" and where can i find it?

Fran Crimi
04-08-2003, 03:20 PM
I just thought of this possibility: Why not have in pool rooms and bars, an enclosed smoking section that is off limits to employees? If a customer want's a drink, you have to go get it yourself. There may have to be a separate entrance to the street and you may have to go outside and back in to get your drink, but it could work. Clean-up wouldn't be until a certain number of hours after everyone was gone and all the smoke cleared.

I bet that could be argued in court.

Fran

L.S. Dennis
04-08-2003, 03:23 PM
Regarding private clubs, there won't be any. It's as simple as that. And if I understand law correctly restaurant owner won't have the burden of spending $200,000 for special smoking areas because they would be illegal inder the law as well. Mayby Fran could clarify that one.

Short of all the Fast Larry flaps on this bouard there has been nothing that has created so much controversy as this topic. It's amazing because it's really no big deal, beleive me this law will work itself out without all the perceived problems.

Didn't there used to be a tag on some commercial that went "Try it you like it"?

nAz
04-08-2003, 03:25 PM
dude do i know you??
err in nyc you can find a smoke house in Brooklyn, Alantic ave.there a a few and in Bay Ridge near HOF billiards 5th ave and ovington.

nAz
04-08-2003, 03:35 PM
@Fran
now that is a good idea. hmm i'd love to go and get my own drinks boy i'd get so bomb.

@L.S. Dennis
Yep i agree im sure it will work out on its own, after about 5 months or so, but last night i had a guy playing in my tourney that kept running out almost every game in his match to smoke a Cig. i had to tell him that he can only get one bath room or cig break per match and if he did it again id penalizes him a game. he got mad at me saying its not fare that he can't smoke at the table. hmm think i'll ban him from playing next week /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

04-08-2003, 03:35 PM
If smokers are as determined as they say, I'd would guess we'll see smokeasies popping up around city ... but they wouldn't be big enough to squeeze in more than one bar box. Next up: Dirty jokes make for a hostile work environment. Health Dept. will start planting stooges on every other barstool. I hear they're researching enforcement strategy in Pyongyang.

Fran Crimi
04-08-2003, 03:39 PM
No. You don't get to pour your own drinks.

Fran

04-08-2003, 03:54 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote nAz:</font><hr> dude do i know you??
err in nyc you can find a smoke house in Brooklyn, Alantic ave.there a a few and in Bay Ridge near HOF billiards 5th ave and ovington. <hr /></blockquote>

Thank you maybe I will go to one since I live close to "H.O.F."

You do not know me but I use to see you at H.O.F. with 9BallGirl and I also see you at Platinum Billiards.
Hint I was standing next to Billy the night you ran 4 straight racks of nine ball I watch as you missed the nine ball in the 5th rack, one more hint I'm not a "dude" I am a girl /ccboard/images/graemlins/mad.gif

9 Ball Girl
04-08-2003, 05:41 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote AsianX:</font><hr> You do not know me but I use to see you at H.O.F. with 9BallGirl and I also see you at Platinum Billiards.<hr /></blockquote>

Hey AsianX. That must've been a while ago. I haven't been to H.O.F. in ages! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif So how long have you been playing?

Rod
04-08-2003, 05:51 PM
nAz,
The truth comes out. Your not two or your latest 3 ball nAz. It's 4 rack nAz. Well I want weight, matter of fact everyone else does to! /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

~~~ rod, just trying to help

TomBrooklyn
04-08-2003, 06:32 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote AsianX:</font><hr>...the night you ran 4 straight racks and missed the nine on the 5th<hr /></blockquote>Naz must have been having an off night.

The "smoke houses" he refers to above are Arab owned businesses that are like cafes for smoking. They provide big floor standing Hookas to each customer to smoke from. They also serve coffee and some soft drinks, playing cards, chess and backgammon boards. But they're primarily business is to provide a place to smoke. I wonder if an exception has been made for them? How can you have a smoking shop that doesn't allow smoking?

From personal observation having been in the bar business and frequenting other bars, the vast majority of heavy drinkers, the mainstay customers of the bar business, are smokers. Not allowing them to smoke is going to be very interesting. I imagine the law will be generally ignored in most bars. However, the fact that the law is there sets up bartenders to easily win a lawsuit if they get sick due to smoking. Therefore, I predict bar owners will fire non-smoking employees and rehire only those who smoke because it will be harder for them to win a second hand smoke lawsuit if they smoke themselves. I would also expect to see a boom is smoke removal system installation to try to minimize the condition.

Rod
04-08-2003, 06:55 PM
[ QUOTE ]
How can you have a smoking shop that doesn't allow smoking?
<hr /></blockquote>

Interesting question, It may be an interesting answer.


[ QUOTE ]
I would also expect to see a boom is smoke removal system installation to try to minimize the condition. <hr /></blockquote>

I don't see that at all, in fact their business should go down. Tempe went to non smoking. I week later I went in a bar where some old friends hang out. Everybody was smoking, well the ones who smoked. Ash trays on the bar etc. I was there last week and the smokers went outside. Absolutely no smoking inside. Undercover agents busted the place. I think the fine was $500 but it could have been more. I knew they would get busted, you can't ignore the law and get away with it for long.

Rod

nAz
04-08-2003, 07:02 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote AsianX:</font><hr>
Thank you maybe I will go to one since I live close to "H.O.F."

You do not know me but I use to see you at H.O.F. with 9BallGirl and I also see you at Platinum Billiards.
Hint I was standing next to Billy the night you ran 4 straight racks of nine ball I watch as you missed the nine ball in the 5th rack, one more hint I'm not a "dude" I am a girl /ccboard/images/graemlins/mad.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Err so sorry i asumed you were a dude /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif
you were with billy that night he was hanging around with 3 girls if i recall correctly, and none of them looked familliar. I'll be there tomorrow night and at PS billiards drop by /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif by the way you were wrong on the 4 rack thing read next post...

nAz
04-08-2003, 07:20 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> nAz,
The truth comes out. Your not two or your latest 3 ball nAz. It's 4 rack nAz. Well I want weight, matter of fact everyone else does to! /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

~~~ rod, just trying to help <hr /></blockquote>

Dude this happen about almost four weeks ago i was playing this guy for $50 race to 7 giving him the 8B. i won that set then play another race to 10 for $100 giving the 8 and 2 game (he suxs bad). anyways he was up 8-4 he missed the 8ball,i finished so its 8-5 his. i break run out then did it two more times, so its 8-8 i break made the 9 on the snap lol then i break ran to the 9 and choked /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif but i some how left him no shot he tried to bank missed hung it up and i finished so it wasn't 4 racks /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif lol poor guy i think he is still sick hahahah

I have never befor ran 3 racks in a money game I didnt get Nervous and i stayed down on my shots! it feels great!If i can only bottle the magic i had that night id be rich /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif
/ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif next two three days im shooting lights out! but then i got into playing snooker thinking it will make my over all game better and ever since im having probs running 4 balls! my speed control feels good but shot making it all off so now i'll quit playing for a few days maybe i can get back in stroke /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif maybe its my stance snooker is weird

Ken
04-08-2003, 08:11 PM
Rod, There's already an exemption for "cigar bars". I don't know if that will include hooka bars but "membership clubs" are exempted. Quite fair I think.

But it gets better: "New York State Gov. George Pataki signed into law a sweeping antismoking bill on March 26. The edict is more stringent than the smoking ban that took effect in New York on March 30, and will overrule some of the loopholes written into the city's law." Statewide makes it fair and not discriminatory.

It's like a nightmare, LOL


http://www.cigaraficionado.com/Cigar/CA_Daily/CA_Daily_News/0,2342,776,00.html

KenCT

04-09-2003, 01:12 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote 9 Ball Girl:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote AsianX:</font><hr> You do not know me but I use to see you at H.O.F. with 9BallGirl and I also see you at Platinum Billiards.<hr /></blockquote>

Hey AsianX. That must've been a while ago. I haven't been to H.O.F. in ages! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif So how long have you been playing? <hr /></blockquote>

I have been playing now for six months. I use to just sit and watch my old Boyfriend play but now i can not get enough of the game.

04-09-2003, 01:16 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote nAz:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote AsianX:</font><hr>
Thank you maybe I will go to one since I live close to "H.O.F."

You do not know me but I use to see you at H.O.F. with 9BallGirl and I also see you at Platinum Billiards.
Hint I was standing next to Billy the night you ran 4 straight racks of nine ball I watch as you missed the nine ball in the 5th rack, one more hint I'm not a "dude" I am a girl /ccboard/images/graemlins/mad.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Err so sorry i asumed you were a dude /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif
you were with billy that night he was hanging around with 3 girls if i recall correctly, and none of them looked familliar. I'll be there tomorrow night and at PS billiards drop by /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif by the way you were wrong on the 4 rack thing read next post... <hr /></blockquote>

Do not fret nAz I was just teasing you.
Maybe I will see you tomorrow night.
Good luck finding me /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

CarolNYC
04-09-2003, 02:37 AM
Naz, If a parent or adult willfully and intentionally blows smoke into an infant or childs face causing them death from some kind of respiratory disorder due to second hand smoke, then thats what it would take for children to be taken from homes-death!I hate to say this, but I have seen more worse case scenarios of neglect and abuse then you can imagine!
And if I were to see anyone blowing their smoke towards a child, I'd definitely say something!
As for my own household, I do smoke and there are things called "Hepa Air Filters" which cost alot of money-I have them-do not smoke anywhere near my childrens rooms-open windows and do everything possible to keep it from them-so, Im happy about the non-smoking laws because my older daughters do go to city clubs-now they dont reek of smoke!
Carol

Rich R.
04-09-2003, 04:23 AM
Tap, Tap, Tap!

nAz
04-09-2003, 07:18 AM
Carol i agree if a parent was blowing smoke in a child's face they should be punished (taliban style?)
those HEPA filters are good huh?
oh and how could you possibly be old enough to have children that go out clubbing??? /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

nAz
04-09-2003, 07:26 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote AsianX:</font><hr>
Good luck finding me /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif <hr /></blockquote>

wear something skimpy make it easier to spot ya /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Rich R.
04-09-2003, 08:06 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote nAz:</font><hr> oh and how could you possibly be old enough to have children that go out clubbing??? /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif <hr /></blockquote>
I think Carol must have had her first child at the age of 2. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

CarolNYC
04-09-2003, 11:52 AM
Ha ha ha ha ha Naz,
Yes, the air filters are good but run up an extreme electric bill!But thats the price you pay and they are expensive but I'd rather pay a high electric bill then an expense of my childs health!:) Hopefully when the patches arrive, I
quit all together,which I will, and then I'll be rich:):):):)
My oldest is 21-she does the club scene(the second is 19)-but,Im very strict-they both will graduate college and be a teacher and electrical engineer you wouldnt believe what i do when a boy wants to date them!ha ha ha ha-talk about "Meet the Parents"ha ha ha-
Stay well!
Carol:):):):)

CarolNYC
04-09-2003, 11:55 AM
Rich,
LMAO-Gee thanks-Nah,Im just your normal EMS(retired)working,motorcycle riding,poolshooting MOM!
Miss ya!
Carol

04-09-2003, 12:44 PM
No! yes, maybe /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif
I have class tonight but maybe I will drop by after 9PM.

nAz
04-09-2003, 02:53 PM
whatever
ok i'll be at PS billiards till 10pm and ill wear something skimpy. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Vicki
04-09-2003, 08:46 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote CarolNYC:</font><hr> Hopefully when the patches arrive, I
quit all together,which I will, and then I'll be rich:):):):)
My oldest is 21-she does the club scene(the second is 19)-but,Im very strict-they both will graduate college and be a teacher and electrical engineer you wouldnt believe what i do when a boy wants to date them!ha ha ha ha-talk about "Meet the Parents"ha ha ha-
Stay well!
Carol:):):):) <hr /></blockquote>

Carol, you are so funny /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif! You have no idea how much richer you will be when you quit - but the truth is - you are very rich already, aren't you! I really am glad I met you. Good luck and call on me if you need support while quitting smoking. I was a hopeless, 2 pack per day, every day since i was 15 smoker. Well, maybe a pack a day at 15 but for sure 2 packs by 20. I quit at 30 and never looked back. Made me rich in ways I never even considered. Way to go!
/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Vicki

CarolNYC
04-10-2003, 03:28 AM
DITTO!
Thanks Vicki!
Carol~not rich, but comfortable and truly blessed!Stay well!:):):)