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03-22-2002, 05:23 PM
Could use some help:
I'm trying to figure out a shot where the OB is on the side rail, one diamond from the foot corner and the CB is at the opposite side rail, frozen and near the head corner pocket at the other end. What your doing is shooting diagonally at the OB, pocketing it and drawing the CB back to where you started with high only. Being that the CB is frozen, only hit from the 10:00 spot to 2:00. Any help is appreciated, I'm tired of breaking cues.

03-23-2002, 10:54 AM
I saw that shot on ESPN and if somebody knows it I would like to hear about it too.

Rod
03-23-2002, 01:28 PM
Could use some help:
I'm trying to figure out a shot where the OB is on the side rail, one diamond from the foot corner and the CB is at the opposite side rail, frozen and near the head corner pocket at the other end. What your doing is shooting diagonally at the OB, pocketing it and drawing the CB back to where you started with high only. Being that the CB is frozen, only hit from the 10:00 spot to 2:00. Any help is appreciated, I'm tired of breaking cues.


Eric, I'm confused, how do you draw a ball with high only english? Does this c/b go more than 1 rail? Can you explain this better or use the wei table for a diagram?

Tom_In_Cincy
03-23-2002, 01:35 PM
You can shoot this shot like you do a JUMP shot. It is real difficult and needs plenty of practice. Once you line up the shot, just jack up on the cue ball as if you were executing a Jump shot. Cue ball goes down table with draw and makes the OB and then heads back to its starting position. Good luck.. and I would use TOP-Left with medium power, to get back to the area (not exact position, just close to) using 4 rails.

Rod
03-23-2002, 02:18 PM
Thanks Tom, I could see the 4 rail, but thought there was some kind of typo in the original explanation.

TonyM
03-23-2002, 04:34 PM
Buddy Hall describes a shot like this on one of his tapes. Basically the idea is that you cannot actually get enough draw to be able to bring the ball back. So what you use is a "spin shot" not a draw shot. You have to elevate the cue, hit down on the ball (similar to a jump shot, but not as much elevation) and aim at the point where the cueball meets the cushion. You also have to use outside english (very important). When the cueball hits the rail, the sidespin will bring it back, not the draw.

It is likely that the shot can be executed with less speed than you think. As Buddy says: "this is not a draw shot, this is a spin shot".

One tip:

Squirt will not likely be an issue. Rather, you might have to compensate for swerve instead. So aim thicker than you really need.

This is a tough shot, but with practice, it can be done. Take some speed off, and let the spin do the work.

Good luck!

Tony

03-23-2002, 05:15 PM
To Eric.

This is actually one of my favorite shots!

The reason is, it's actually very easy because you get the rail to do all the work. Get way down low on the view making sure the cb will hit the rail a hair before the ob.

Do whatever it takes to keep the stick level over the rail while maintaining bridge control. Use a little outside english and send it down there fast. The speed will help maintain the spin while the quickness will beat the curving that being jacked puts on the cb.

Practice this one.

Bobby

03-26-2002, 05:39 PM
Thanks Guys. I'm gonna work on it and appreciate the tips!

Rod
03-26-2002, 05:59 PM
So Tony your saying it's a 1 rail shot? Tom is saying it's a 4 rail shot. Either way is fine, but the 4 rail is easier IMO. Eric mentions draw and follow in the same shot, huh?
It was shown on espn? How was it shot there? I may be slow, that's possible! Just curious for a clear explanation.
I like to fool around with that stuff sometimes.

Ross
03-26-2002, 06:18 PM
I don't understand the explanations either. It seems some are talking about draw, some about follow 4 rails, some about english reversing when it hits the opposite side cusion...? Is this the set up?
START(%HI1Z9%In7Q9%Pn2C9%WJ8[0%Xm3D3)END

cheesemouse
03-26-2002, 06:43 PM
Ross,
That is how I read it Ross. Thanks for putting it on the 'wei' table. What I understand is the shot is drawn back, one rail, with high english...I gotta see this and I'm not from Missouri.

Rod
03-26-2002, 07:07 PM
Cheese, the original post is at best confusing. Drawing the ball back with high only? Huh! I'm going to back up my car by putting it in drive!! All I'm asking is what was done on ESPN. The 1 rail needs a lot of spin with just a touch of draw left on the c/b when it hits the o/b. Probably will have to aim at the o/b full because of swerve. I've shot similar shots many times, but not at that much distance.
The speed will have everything to do with pulling it off, provided I'm thinking of the correct shot.

03-26-2002, 07:08 PM
Hi Ross,

Actually, I don't know how to use the Wei Table so I can't see what you have set up. Tony M explained it pretty good. I just can't make the shot(yet). I'll probably go through 2-3 more cues(!) before getting it right.

03-26-2002, 07:13 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Rod:</font><hr> Cheese, the original post is at best confusing. Drawing the ball back with high only? Huh! I'm going to back up my car by putting it in drive!! All I'm asking is what was done on ESPN. The 1 rail needs a lot of spin with just a touch of draw left on the c/b when it hits the o/b. Probably will have to aim at the o/b full because of swerve. I've shot similar shots many times, but not at that much distance.
The speed will have everything to do with pulling it off, provided I'm thinking of the correct shot. <hr></blockquote>

Rod,

I found the footage tht DBarber was talking about: Corey Deuel vs. Alex Pagulayan in 7 Ball. After talking to someone at the poolhall-he produced a tape. Corey makes a simular shot where he shoots at the OB(misses) but draws the CB close to where he started. Nice shot. I saw Allen Hopkins make the shot in a tournament and still haven't figured it out yet.

cheesemouse
03-26-2002, 07:22 PM
Rod,

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>The speed will have everything to do with pulling it off, provided I'm thinking of the correct shot.<hr></blockquote>

This has to be the key, the c/b has to be at it's turn over spot(like a bowling ball when it finally grabs the lane) in order to get it back one rail. I think it's out of my range but will hit it tomorrow and see.

03-26-2002, 07:50 PM
Is it just me, or is this a seemingly useless shot to be breaking any cues over to learn. I don't believe in working a shot that is basically useless unless you are striving to make a trick or "one time in a blue moon" shot...sid~~~striving to perfect the practical

shojingod
03-26-2002, 08:01 PM
Sorry for being out of subject.

Cheesemouse that is a funny and cute looking icon if I ever saw one.
http://www.animationlibrary.com/Animation10/Animals/Mice/Mouse_eats.gif &lt;-- cute as hell, very original

03-26-2002, 08:05 PM
Ok This all makes since now. Watch the tape closely. You will see there is a kiss beween the missed object ball and the cueball, which changed the original intended path of the cue ball. Once the CB ball was kissed, sending it back up table the loaded "follow" cue ball is what made the CB "hit the brakes. This action ain't happening with out that double kiss. I think if you listen carefully you can hear him say something to ralph about trying to come four rails. This is if this is the same match.
Wait you did say alex? Was it in the tie breaker game? if it was the "6" ball he missed then that shot just takes a smooth level stroke with left english to get on the "7". If it is neither of these shots and you still have the tape please watch it and explain to me so I can understand the shot for myself.

Rod
03-27-2002, 01:57 AM
Cheese, It was out of my range. I shot this shot tonight about 8 times and I managed to get it past the side pocket.
I haven't hit a ball in close to two weeks, so it was real difficult. If I played more and practiced that shot it can be done. Rod did not have the touch to pull it off. I was playing a friendly game with my buds, so I didn't want to use up the time having them watch. They thought what I did was amazing, and I feel the same. The stroke is not what it should be, it's retarded. Speed is critical, but the table condition is yet another issue. I wouldn't play the shot that way so it's pointless to practice an extremely low percentage shot. Us kids do have to fool around sometimes!

heater451
03-27-2002, 09:57 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Ross:</font><hr> I don't understand the explanations either. It seems some are talking about draw, some about follow 4 rails, some about english reversing when it hits the opposite side cusion...? Is this the set up?
START(%HI1Z9%In7Q9%Pn2C9%WJ8[0%Xm3D3)END <hr></blockquote>
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Eric:</font><hr> Hi Ross,

Actually, I don't know how to use the Wei Table so I can't see what you have set up. Tony M explained it pretty good. I just can't make the shot(yet). I'll probably go through 2-3 more cues(!) before getting it right. <hr></blockquote>

Eric,

1) Copy the code: START(%HI1Z9%In7Q9%Pn2C9%WJ8[0%Xm3D3)END

2) Follow the link below, and choose "Paste", from the table buttons:

http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html


*3) To diagram a shot, reset the table, click and drag balls/arrows wherever you want, and then select "Copy". When you 'paste' into a text field, the code will appear.

Good luck,

03-27-2002, 10:08 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: heater451:</font><hr> &lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote: Ross:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr&gt; I don't understand the explanations either. It seems some are talking about draw, some about follow 4 rails, some about english reversing when it hits the opposite side cusion...? Is this the set up?
START(%HI1Z9%In7Q9%Pn2C9%WJ8[0%Xm3D3)END &lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote: Eric:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr&gt; Hi Ross,

Actually, I don't know how to use the Wei Table so I can't see what you have set up. Tony M explained it pretty good. I just can't make the shot(yet). I'll probably go through 2-3 more cues(!) before getting it right. &lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Eric,

1) Copy the code: START(%HI1Z9%In7Q9%Pn2C9%WJ8[0%Xm3D3)END

2) Follow the link below, and choose "Paste", from the table buttons:

<a target="_blank" href=http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html>http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html</a>


*3) To diagram a shot, reset the table, click and drag balls/arrows wherever you want, and then select "Copy". When you 'paste' into a text field, the code will appear.

Good luck, <hr></blockquote>

Thanks! That shines some light on the subject!

E &gt;my previous computer had an eraser on the end of it

Ross
03-28-2002, 05:12 PM
Tony - so is this the shot with outside english that you are describing?
START(%HI1Z9%In7Q9%Pn2C9%Uc6G5%VJ0[1%WJ8[0%Xm3D3%eA5a2)END

Rod
03-28-2002, 05:32 PM
Sid I wouldn't be breaking any cues over this shot. It is an extreme shot, not the kind you would want to bet the marbles on. I got real close to he right stroke, so I know if I kept praticing it can be made, more often than one might think. I think I'd better work on the real game.

TonyM
03-29-2002, 02:20 AM
Yes that's the kind of shot that I was talking about. Not an easy shot, but certainly not impossible.

Tony

TonyM
03-29-2002, 02:22 AM
Rod askes:
"So Tony your saying it's a 1 rail shot? Tom is saying it's a 4 rail shot."

You could play it as a 4 rail shot (that's how I'd play it personally, unless there was a ball blocking that path) but the original poster asked about the 1 rail route (or so it seemed to me).

Tony

Scott Lee
03-29-2002, 02:26 AM
After looking at the shot on the WEI table, it is my opinion that the position described CANNOT be made using HIGH english. It would necessarily, even with the cue jacked up, need to be hit with LOW left english to bring the CB back to close to where it started from. Iigh left would bring the CB straight across the table at a 90 degree angle to the rail...maybe, just maybe it might come back as far as the side pocket, but not likely, and certainly no higher on the table. Like Rod said, the easier shot is to play high inside (right) english and go four rails for shape on the opposite side of thd table from where the CB started.

Scott Lee