View Full Version : The Renee Richards factor
04-07-2003, 12:00 PM
Should a woman who used to be a man be permitted to play in an all-female league?
Skill level = about an APA 4 or 5
Wally~~really does not need to know, just curious what CCBers think.
OMG I can see the Supreme Court getting involved in this one.
No (IT) should not be allowed to play.
04-07-2003, 12:37 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> Should a woman who used to be a man be permitted to play in an all-female league?
Skill level = about an APA 4 or 5
Wally~~really does not need to know, just curious what CCBers think. <hr /></blockquote>
Since an APA skill level should not be based on the sex of the player, it shouldn't matter.
An SL-5 = an SL-5.
04-07-2003, 12:46 PM
Yes, she should be allowed to play, because for all intents and purposes she is now a woman.
To bolster my argument I submit the following:
During an interview with a man who had become a woman, the interviewer asked "what the most PAINFUL part of the operation?"
Wait for it!
/ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif "When they cut out half my brain."
04-07-2003, 01:05 PM
There is a lady /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif that plays in tournaments around town. I am not sure even what stage this person is in their transformation. She or he has played in tournaments where the female participants receive 2 games on the wire. This person doesn't play bad and sometimes is getting weight from men that don't play his/her speed. The tournament director doesn't know exactly what to do so she/he plays as a woman. Tough call.
It shouldn't matter, it goes by a players rating. We had a er well female i'll say that played in our tournaments and I believe in one league. She played a lot better than most females and her rating was a 7. Everyone had a rating so it was just a matter of playing to your level. Carl/Carol rarely run away with tournaments etc. Just like anyone you don't always play at the top of your rating or someone else is playing above their rating.
We should not judge what peoples sexual preference are. In most cases, they are born with this, and have no control over it. Some religious teachers say they are in sin, if they don't convert, I think it would be a sin to make them do so. If they don't hit on me, then I say, live & let live, I am for even letting them marry, 2 males, or 2 females.
If a homosexual male, get's a operation & now becomes a female, he is a female. I would treat he/she as such, and give that new female proper respect. She should not be allowed to play in female events, because she, other than the loss of his testicles, is still a male, with the strength of a male.
The safe way to handle this situation, and sooner or later, a TD is going to face it, is to say we follow the policies of the IOC, and when the Olympic committee allowes a male who does a sex change to become a female, and then compete with other females in the Olympics, so will we. When questions like this come up, it is always best to study how other main line sports deal with them.
The worlds womens pool championship was held once by a man. She, or he, falsely gave his, her name as, Miss Francis Anderson, but the imposters real name was actually Mr. Ore F. Anderson from Newton, Ks. He/she pulled off this masquerade undetected for 25 years, until he was exposed, literally. This story was so impossible to believe, it actually got in the Ripley's column & ran worldwide.
The Olympics has had a number of imposters over the years be one sex, and compete for an advantage as another. All of you have seen the great & funny movie, Crocodile Dundee, where he went to this yuppie party in NYC, and some of the shielas, were really guys. This was very confusing to him, so he solved the problem by using commons sense, every shelia he walked up to, he took his hand & did a quick grab between their legs, then he knew.
As the Womens champion was once a man, and there has been a precident here, then I am sure somebody is going to ask now, can there be a man now out there winning, and pretending to be a female? If they are looking for a volunteer to get to the bottom of this, to use a pun, I will volunteer to do a crocodile dundee on the entire tour, I know, it's a lousy job, but somebody has to do it, so it might as well be somebody like me, who's had extensive experience in this area, and nobody's had more experience there, than me. Everyone would just line up, and assume the position, like the cop tells you do to when he pulls you over for driving 90 while smoking a joint & drinking a bud in the other hand. I could run down the line & the entire test could be over in 2 minutes, and talk about drawing a crowd for that one.
If you really want to know, then the tour, should make every new player, who joins the tour, to go to the tour doctor for an examination & receive a letter, saying they are a true female. If they don't, they will get burned again, happened once, it will happen again.
I was channel surfing a couple of night ago & here is the beauty contest of 50 stunning beautiful babes in swimming suits, it was the beauty contest of Asia, & the winner was going to the world contest. All of these babes were l0's, but guess what, they were all guys. I never thought I would see that become a major TV event, but any one of those 50 guys, could go on the womens tour, and play & never be detected, as long as he slept alone. This is a bigger reality that some may think it it.
For the record, Fast loves cross dressers, and transvetites, so please honey, don't start posting hate stuff on me here. What we need to do, is start a new pool division, just for them, we have the mens tour, the womens tour, lets have the it tour. I bet you it would pack the house.
Fast Larry Guninger
04-07-2003, 01:29 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fast Larry:</font><hr>
If they are looking for a volunteer to get to the bottom of this, to use a pun, I will volunteer to do a crocodile dundee on the entire tour, I know, it's a lousy job, but somebody has to do it, so it might as well be somebody like me, who's had extensive experience in this area, and nobody's had more experience there, than me. Everyone would just line up, and assume the position, like the cop tells you do to when he pulls you over for driving 90 while smoking a joint & drinking a bud in the other hand. I could run down the line & the entire test could be over in 2 minutes, and talk about drawing a crowd for that one...
/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Larry, you are a hoot. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
OK, you've got the job.
04-07-2003, 01:54 PM
As others have already pointed out - skill rating, not gender, is the deciding factor in the example you cited. However, dealing with the intent, rather than the letter, of your question, it has already happened in the early days of the WPBA.
04-07-2003, 05:35 PM
I once worked at a long term drug/alcohol treatment center. There was a woman who really felt she was a woman and who was undergoing this process. First the decision, does she get to join in with the 'women's group therapy' group.It was a unanimous yes. Then the issue came up of whether she could go on the yearly womans'retreat. Now this involved going through beurocracy which controlled the treatment center. The director and the counselors at the treatment center worked hard for her and they won, she got to go.
Changes happen slowly and it appears that more and more people are becoming enlightened and accepting of others divergent ideas and lifestyles.
And while this is off topic, it does relate to the sexual thing. I stated before FAST was here that I am a recovering drug addict/alcoholic. I have not touched anything for 12 years. Larry will tell you that at my house, we drank nonalkie beer.No big deal was made. He drank what he wanted, we drank what we wanted.
Things I learned about addicts from going to meetings. 75% or more were abused in some fashion or another in childhood (not implying some nonaddicts were not abused too). They attempted to stuff their pain by anesthetizing with drugs and/or alcohol. BUT and this is a big but, if they do make it to AA or NA and stay there, they are the most appreciative and open minded/enlightened group I have ever met. They put most christians to shame.
So should a transexual be allowed to play pool in the league of their chosen gender? Because guys and gals, emphatically, these people are born with the brain of one sex and the body of another. It amazes me that such as these can be so determined to be reasonably stable and emotionally healthy,and achieve this, that I believe if we are people of love we should give them all of the support that we can.
So this addict/alcoholic/dawg mom/pool lover gives a resounding yes!!!!!!!!!
Gee Wiz Wally, thanks, finally you guys give me something to do, but as soon as I begin to have a little fun, I am going to get my faced slapped. Maybe we could train Wonder Dog to go in there with his big nose, at least he would not get sued. It was nice to be able to have a little fun here, with out somebody getting their nose out of joint. Fast Larry
04-08-2003, 12:30 AM
To me Pool is one of the few sports where gender doesn't make a difference
04-08-2003, 07:02 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Pizza Bob:</font><hr> it has already happened in the early days of the WPBA.
Pizza Bob <hr /></blockquote>
Hi Pizza Bob. That's news to me. I don't remember anything like happening in the WPBA. When did this happen?
04-08-2003, 10:25 AM
You know this is one screwed up planet, when this could actually be a factor one day.
(waiting for the mothership to pick me up)
04-08-2003, 11:30 AM
I PM'd you. No need to go into details in a public forum.
Pizza Bob <--the soul of discretion
04-09-2003, 06:57 AM
I know who you are talking about Wally, and I don't think there should be a problem.. but what bathroom would be used?
And, did you hear that she is writing a new book? its called ....
"How to play pool with no balls"
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