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04-10-2003, 12:04 PM
I just wanted to let people know the issues I have been having with joss cues. I have sent my cue back twice now and the finish product looks like a $25 k-mart stick. The workmanship has gone down hill in a major way. I used to love shooting with my joss, but don't buy new unless you want to pay high dollar for a poor product.

Rod
04-10-2003, 01:28 PM
Not that it makes a big difference but which model Joss? Are you dealing with a distributor? Is the cue actually being sent back to Joss? Is the warranty still in effect?
I detect the finish is the problem, not playability?

Rod

Pizza Bob
04-10-2003, 01:47 PM
To whom have you spoken? Dan Janes is very customer oriented and I can't believe he'd let a problem go unresolved.

His finish, if indeed that is the problem, is a state-of-the-art UV cured product and I've heard of no other problems. I'd suggest you get hold of Dan himself and give him the whole story. I'm sure you'll get the issue resolved.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

04-10-2003, 01:50 PM
I am dealing with a local dealer that orders them through cue sticks. I thought they were a reputable distributor. I bought the Joss 04. It is not a very expensive stick, but I liked it and I could use my predator shaft on it. Well for over 300.00 you would figure the butt would have a clean finish in it. The wood was separating where ebony and the cocobolo meet. I sent pics to Dan Janes at Joss saying this is the second one I got like this. He replied the stick was left in a hot car and I was trying to pawn off a used stick. The stick never had chalk on it and I had it for about 10 minutes both times. I hate to see it cause I really like playing with a Joss. The width and balance is something I have always enjoyed in the past.

Rod
04-10-2003, 02:19 PM
Have your local dealer send it back to CueStix. I presume out of Denver. Have them replace it, upgrade or buy another brand. It's a loser for all concerned because no one makes money after shipping costs etc. Sometimes they just have to bite the bullet. I sold cues and bought from CueStix sometimes, never had a problem I recall. I have had problems with cues from other suppliers. They just send it back to Joss and get a credit.

Rod

04-11-2003, 06:15 AM
Rod,
That is what I did last night. I ended up with a great deal on a Predator 2k4. That was a lot more then I wanted to spend even at a discount, but the cue is very nice and shoots great.

Rod
04-11-2003, 10:16 AM
Good, I'm glad it worked out for you. Sorry it cost you more money but sometimes it's worth the price just to end the frustrations.

Rod

Irish
04-11-2003, 02:24 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote michiganmade:</font><hr> The wood was separating where ebony and the cocobolo meet. I sent pics to Dan Janes at Joss saying this is the second one I got like this. He replied the stick was left in a hot car and I was trying to pawn off a used stick. <hr /></blockquote>

Piss poor response. One of the major reasons for such seperation is the wood not being properly seasoned and dried prior to turning it. Go figure when Joss starts pumping out a massive amount of cues and does not have the old wood stock to keep up with production. Wood has to sit a long time before it should be used, the more cues a company produces, the more likely the company will cut corners and use the wood before it is ready and is not stable.

Barry
04-11-2003, 08:16 PM
I don't know if you are a cuemaker or at least a woodworker, but you seem to have a firm opinion here.
Have you visited the Joss shop and saw the wood that they havemaking cues? I have and I will tell you that Dan keeps pallets of wood in stock. I do not wish to be critical of your post, but be fair. Are you stating that Joss Cues don't let hte woods cure before using them. If you are then tell us how you know this.

I for one still believe in Dan Janes.

DSAPOLIS
04-13-2003, 12:37 AM
I had no reason to respond to this post initially, that was until Michiganmade went out of his way to post a vague description of this incident on another board, and used it as an opportunity to slam Joss. Listen, you bought the cue stick from a dealer. The dealer got the cue from a distributor, and the distributor got the cue from Joss. The dealer sells you a bad cue. You bring it back. Aparrantly, you get another cue that is just as bad. You send pictures to Dan Janes, he says it's damaged and that it's possibly used. Eventually you go back and end up with a nice Predator, congratualations. I fail to see where Joss did any disservice to you. It is my opinion that you were told that you had a used cue. Dealers sell crap like that all of the time. It's not Dan Janes' fault that your dealer was trying to pull a fast one on you. If there was a problem with the cue initially (I believe you stated you had not put chalk on it yet) then why did you buy it? Why are you mad at Joss and not Cue Stix or your dealer? Dan Janes gave you an opinion based on pictures, but I fail to see in any of your posts where you returned the stick back to Joss. Did anyone from Joss have that cue in their hands during this situation? You should have sent it off to Dan Janes to have him look at the cue, not the pictures. You yourself said that you were dealing with the dealer and Cue Stix, not Joss. When you buy a cue from a dealer, he'll tell you anything to get the thing off his shelves. He will avoid having to send anythign back to teh distributor. When you take things back to the dealer and he DOES send it back to the distributor, chances are you got the the same model cue that was in stock at Cue Stixx. This cue could have been used, banged around, peed upon, whatever. That's not Joss's fault. Matter of fact, the entire situation is your fault for not being smart about buying your cue or getting it repaired. In the future do directly through the company for repairs, not the dealer or the distributor, unless you want your money back. When shopping for a cue, go through the company, and cut out the middle-men and the salesman. Many companies deal only with authorized dealers, and dealer inquiries only, but many will allow you to factory order a cue through a dealer. You should have exercised these options before you went on the internet slamming the entire Joss company on this board and The Monk's board. This situation was caused by your lack of good judgement in buying a cue, and your choice of dealers. I say that because if the cue was in that bad of shape, he should have never sold it you. He should have sent it back to Cue Stix and they could have fought it out with Joss. The dealer just passed the trouble along to you.

04-16-2003, 08:06 AM
Blackjack David Sapolis,
I posted the samething here as I did on the other board and I did it out of frustration. I do not make it a habit to just go around slamming a company and their products. I did it because I feel like there was not any willingness by Joss to handle the problem. I contacted Dan Janes direct and in a very cordial way. I feel like the customer support by Joss was poor and I am very sure neither of the two sticks I received were used. I would be very glad to send the pictures to anyone. The sticks were a product of poor quality control. The following is some of our correspondence.

First one to Dan Janes

"I sent this to you a couple of weeks ago about a big blemish in a cue I bought - I took the cue back to the place that ordered it for me. I got another cue yesterday and it also has some blemishes in the finish of the butt. They almost look like deep scratches from a lathe. I am going to keep this one even though it is not to my liking. I am only sending this email not to say anything about joss cues, but more as a concerned buyer. I have had several joss cues in the past and have always preached how great they are. One of the reasons I buy a joss is for how perfect it looks new. If you have any interest in what I am talking about I would gladly email you pictures. Thanks for many years of great performance and hope that I am an exception to the rule."

Response
"Thanks for your e-mail about the scratches in the Joss Cue.
When a cue leaves my shop it has been looked over many, many times to make sure that it is as close to perfect as I can make it. If there is a scratch or anything in the finish then it was done sometime after it left here. I can only control my cue until it leaves my door.
I appreciate your concern about the finish on your cue. However not knowing who you bought the cue from and where they bought the cue I don't know what I can do about this.

Do you know where they ordered the cue from?
What model cue is it?"

Back to Joss
"Here are the actual pics of the stick from billiards pro shop inc. Thanks again for your time."

Response
"This cue has been some where damp or very hot (car trunk?) .The ebony and the cocobolo have shrunk or expanded to cause a lifting of the finish where they go together. Looks like somebody has sanded or used steel wool here also.
If you got the cue this way it was not a new cue.
The only way to fix this is to have it refinished."

Back to joss
"Thanks, I will take it back to the place I bought it. It is brand new and never been chalked. The place it was ordered from was supposed to pretty reputable. Just hard to believe I got two stick in a row like this."

I could never get a response after this. I tried to buy one direct. No response. So here was my final email that still got no response.

"Sorry to say but I sent the stick back again. The sticks were ordered from cue stix. Sorry I was wrong in my previous email. I truly do regret not ending up with a Joss, because I really do like your products. I can just chalk this one up as a bad experience. I hope I did not come across as rude about the situation, just wanted to keep the people at Joss advised."

Take it how you want to. Still frustrated and it sounds like I was dealing with a dealer and Joss if you ask me. I mean what is the point of selling to dealers if you are not going to back the product after it leave the shop?