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Snyder1
04-14-2003, 08:45 AM
In 9 ball, if the object ball is obstructed by another ball, can you make a carum shot off the "in the way" ball, or must you go out on a limb and try to make an incredibly low percentage bank shot or the like to hit the object ball directly ?

Thanks -

John (PS - one more please ... if you flat out miss the object ball say on a tough cut shot, is it considered a scratch or even worse ball in hand ?)

Wally_in_Cincy
04-14-2003, 10:00 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Snyder1:</font><hr> In 9 ball, if the object ball is obstructed by another ball, can you make a carum shot off the "in the way" ball, or must you go out on a limb and try to make an incredibly low percentage bank shot <font color="blue">( I think you mean a "kick" )</font color> or the like to hit the object ball directly ?

<font color="blue">Not clear on your question but "You must strike the lowest numbered ball on the table first" </font color>

Thanks -

John (PS - one more please ... if you flat out miss the object ball say on a tough cut shot, is it considered a scratch or even worse ball in hand ?)

<font color="blue"> Usually referred to as a "foul" not a "scratch". A scratch is when you pocket the cue ball. But yes, it's ball in hand to your opponent. If you're playing BCA or Texas Express rules. </font color> <hr /></blockquote>

You can find rules at www.bca-pool.com (http://www.bca-pool.com)

Snyder1
04-14-2003, 10:11 AM
Post deleted by Snyder1

Snyder1
04-14-2003, 10:14 AM
Thanks Wally. The first part of my question was a bit unclear ... but I think you answered it. Just to clarify by example - say you're shooting the 1 ball &amp; the 4 ball is in front of it (no way to hit the 1 ball on a straight line as the 4 ball is obstructing it). You notice the 4 ball is perfectly lined up so you can hit the 4 into the 1, to make the 1 into a corner pocket. The end result is you would be making the correct ball - the 1 ball; but I would have hit the 4 ball into it on a carum, as the 1 could NOT be struck directly ... I think carum shots like this are not allowed ? Bottom line - you must hit the 1 ball first in this example regardless if you have a perfectly lined up carum shot off another ball ? Thanks

John

eg8r
04-14-2003, 10:14 AM
[ QUOTE ]
The end result is you're making the correct ball - the 1 ball, but by not hitting it first, I think carum shots like this are not allowed. <hr /></blockquote> Nope this combo shot will result in ball in hand for you opponent. You need to go rail first and hit the 1 ball if you cannot hit it directly. Also, remember if you go rail first and hit the 1 ball, either the cue ball or the 1 ball must then hit a rail or you will foul and give ball in hand to your opponent.

eg8r

Wally_in_Cincy
04-14-2003, 10:19 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Snyder1:</font><hr> Thanks Wally. The first part of my question was a bit unclear ... but I think you answered it. Just to clarify by example - say you're shooting the 1 ball &amp; the 4 ball is in front of it &amp; you're perfectly lined up to hit the 4 into the 1 to make the 1 into a corner pocket. The end result is you're making the correct ball - the 1 ball, but by not hitting it first, I think carum shots like this are not allowed.

<font color="blue">Yes that is illegal and would result in ball in hand to your opponent. BTW that's commonly called a "combination" shot rather than a "carom".

Let's say the 4-ball was next to the corner pocket and you shot the 1-ball towards that pocket and it glanced off the 4-ball before going in. That's a carom shot. And that's legal because you hit the 1-ball first. </font color>

Bottom line is that you must hit the 1 ball first in this example regardless ? <font color="blue">Correct </font color>

Thanks

John <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="red">Next question please /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif </font color>

Snyder1
04-14-2003, 11:06 AM
Thanks eg8r - with no carum shots allowed, 9 ball is gonna prove to be very challenging indeed - LOL !! It would seem with the no carum shot rule, there are so many "no chance" shots that would inevitably result with the object low ball being obstructed by other balls. I imagine one would have to become proficient at rail shots to be good at 9 ball. This makes it even more impressive when I hear people on this board talk about running racks in 9 ball - maybe one day ...

JS

Snyder1
04-14-2003, 11:12 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Snyder1:</font><hr> Thanks Wally. The first part of my question was a bit unclear ... but I think you answered it. Just to clarify by example - say you're shooting the 1 ball &amp; the 4 ball is in front of it &amp; you're perfectly lined up to hit the 4 into the 1 to make the 1 into a corner pocket. The end result is you're making the correct ball - the 1 ball, but by not hitting it first, I think carum shots like this are not allowed.

<font color="blue">Yes that is illegal and would result in ball in hand to your opponent. BTW that's commonly called a "combination" shot rather than a "carom".

Let's say the 4-ball was next to the corner pocket and you shot the 1-ball towards that pocket and it glanced off the 4-ball before going in. That's a carom shot. And that's legal because you hit the 1-ball first. </font color>

Bottom line is that you must hit the 1 ball first in this example regardless ? <font color="blue">Correct </font color>

Thanks

John <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="red">Next question please /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif </font color> <hr /></blockquote>

Thanks Wally ... you said "next question please", so I have one more today if you don't mind /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif. Again, in 9 ball - if you make a ball &amp; then scratch, does the made ball have to come back out on the table ? If so, where is the made ball placed (on the opposite dot) ? Thanks again ...

John

Wally_in_Cincy
04-14-2003, 11:32 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Snyder1:</font><hr>

....Again, in 9 ball - if you make a ball &amp; then scratch, does the made ball have to come back out on the table ?.... <hr /></blockquote>

No, unless it is the 9-ball. The 9-ball would be spotted on the footspot (that's where the rack goes) and the incoming player has ball in hand....in other words, game over, for all intents and purposes.

here's the BCA rules page

http://www.bca-pool.com/cgi/site/framegate.cgi?url=http://www.bca-pool.com/play/tournaments/rules/rls_gen.shtml&amp;cat=p

SPetty
04-14-2003, 03:37 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr>You need to go rail first and hit the 1 ball if you cannot hit it directly. Also, remember if you go rail first and hit the 1 ball, either the cue ball or the 1 ball must then hit a rail or you will foul and give ball in hand to your opponent.<hr /></blockquote>Not quite...

After the 1 ball is hit, then (quoting BCA) "Cause the cue ball or any numbered ball to contact a cushion or any part of the rail." That is, if he hits the cue ball off the rail into the 1 ball, and then the 1 ball hits the 4 ball and the 4 ball hits the rail, it is a legal shot. Something must hit the rail after initial contact - not necessarily the cue ball or the initial object ball.

Texas Express is quite succinct: "The cue ball must strike the lowest numbered object ball on the table first, followed by either the cue ball or any other legally struck numbered ball striking a rail. A numbered ball must be pocketed for the shooter to continue play."

Just for clarification...

04-14-2003, 05:51 PM
I WAS LOST WHEN I STARTED PLAYING 9-BALL ALSO..ANY WAYS..LEARN ABOUT THE 3 FOUL RULE ALSO..STILL GETS ME ALL THE TIME...LOL

bluewolf
04-14-2003, 06:03 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Snyder1:</font><hr> In 9 ball, if the object ball is obstructed by another ball,
<hr /></blockquote>

Do you know how to use the wei table? If you did, you could diagram all of the balls on the table and get very helpful advice. I am just learning to use it myself /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Here is a link that will take you to it so you can see what I am talking about.

http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/9egg/

Laura

eg8r
04-14-2003, 07:20 PM
You are correct. This is what I meant, but I did not say it correctly (like this has never happened /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif ). Hit the one ball legally, and then something must hit a rail.

eg8r

eg8r
04-14-2003, 07:24 PM
I think I have a different definition of a carom shot than yours, I don't know which is correct. My definition of a carom shot is when the cue ball strikes the ob, then by design the cue ball will then hit another ball. What you are referring to is what I call a combo shot. When the cue ball strikes an object ball, then that object ball hits another object ball.

Just so you know, a combo shot is legal in your example, if you hit the 1 ball first and the 1 ball hit the 4 ball into the pocket.

Am I correct? Anyone? Anyone? /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

Rod
04-14-2003, 07:36 PM
Yes he descrbed a combo but called it a carom, and yes if you hit the one first.

Rod

Scott Lee
04-14-2003, 11:00 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> Also, remember if you go rail first and hit the 1 ball, either the cue ball or the 1 ball must then hit a rail or you will foul and give ball in hand to your opponent.

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

Just to clarify...the rules state that after legal contact with the lowest number ball first, ANY ball, including the CB, may contact a rail or fall in a pocket, for a legal hit.
So, for example, he could go rail first, hit the one ball, and the CB could hit the 7 to a rail...for a legal shot.

Scott Lee