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04-20-2003, 01:34 AM
I've seen that many events are going to a "rack your own" format, something that was unheard of just a few years ago. In this format does the non-breaking player have the option to examine and challenge the rack?

CarolNYC
04-20-2003, 02:05 AM
Hi there,
Are you saying that the "breaker"is racking his "own'rack?You'll have to forgive me, but, I've NEVER heard of this!As far as I know, opponent racks for breaker-and rule of thumb"ALWAYS check the rack!"
Carol~if so, YES,opponent can check rack-I would in a heartbeat!:)

Rich R.
04-20-2003, 05:09 AM
I have seen a number of tournaments where the breaker racks his own. The Falcon Tour (formerly Planet-Pool tour) in the mid Atlantic area, uses this format. I believe they are trying to reduce arguments over racking, but I'm not sure.
The other player always has the option to inspect the rack and can ask for a re-rack.

9 Ball Girl
04-20-2003, 08:24 AM
If it's for reducing any arguments, they should just have a neutral person do the racking. JMO

almer
04-20-2003, 09:10 AM
In the western canadian open this wkdn in calgary it was rack your own balls.Some players checked racks,some never.Ralf s never checked anyone,some players checked every rack.Some of the players made the 9 on the break 5 times in race to 11. almer

Joe T
04-20-2003, 09:21 AM
There's your biggest draw back to rack your own. If the nine shoots directly to either one of the bottom two corner pockets, it was due to the rack, not the break. After this problem gets solved and you start making the corner ball, they'll be complaining about that. I'm in favor of rack your own and spot the nine but that'll never fly in tournaments. It does work well when gambling though. The best answer is 10 ball opponent racks or 10 ball rack your own and the 10 spots if you make it on the break. The last solution solves all arguements.

L.S. Dennis
04-20-2003, 09:53 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote CarolNYC:</font><hr> Hi there,
Are you saying that the "breaker"is racking his "own'rack?You'll have to forgive me, but, I've NEVER heard of this!As far as I know, opponent racks for breaker-and rule of thumb"ALWAYS check the rack!"
Carol~if so, YES,opponent can check rack-I would in a heartbeat!:) <hr /></blockquote>

Yes this is becoming the format of choice in more and more tournaments as time goes on.

At the Sands Regency Open in Reno Nevada they they started it about 3 or 4 years ago because of a particular pro constantly complaining and about the racks he was getting from his opponents. It's worked well and cut down on a lot of problems and has spread to other parts of the country at this point. I suspect it will be adopted as the standard proceedure fairly soon. Most of the players preferr it because you're always virtually assured that you'll be getting a good rack, it'll be your fault if you didn't!

Regarding checking the rack that your opponent has racked for his/her self, yes you are allowed to do so and in fact well advised to do so. By doing so you can assure yourself that your opponent won't be making the 9 on the break!

All in all a good rule, I don't know why it has taken this long to catch on!

Popcorn
04-20-2003, 12:49 PM
I have played a few times where you had the option. I prefer to not rack my own, unless strange thing begin happening, I will usually break what ever rack is there. I think the rack your own can be good in some respects. Players like Tommy Kennedy and Nick Varner will begin complaining about the rack for no real reason, It is just a shark move on their part. Tommy can start making you rack the balls 5 or 6 times when there is nothing wrong. I once threw the rack at the racked balls scattering them all over the place playing Tommy. I would not rack for him again, the tournament director had to finish doing it. Tommy will also begin taking forever to rack the balls for you. Just as you get down to break, he begins re-racking the balls again. He will do it over and over, he does it on purpose. So there may be something to be said for racking your own balls.

cheesemouse
04-20-2003, 03:03 PM
Joe T,
I have never seen anyone manipulate the 10 ball rack to their advantage but it is hard to sell the game of ten ball game so I think they should use the tenth ball only when breaking the rack and then remove it after the break; you could still rack the 9-ball in the center of the rack with the ten in one of the corner spots. This would assure that no player would be snapping multipule nines in a match. Hell, if that was case I'd let'm rack their own and never check the rack.

Joe T
04-20-2003, 03:55 PM
You could still rack the nine dead for the hole but your suggestion does solve the corner ball issue which is really the bigger of the two problems. I'm sure we'll suffer along a few more years with this 9 ball racking problem before someone makes the switch. If I were Lou Sardo I would definately be looking to sponsor some 10 ball events. I can't believe the haven't done it yet.

L.S. Dennis
04-20-2003, 10:37 PM
Interesting that you mention Varner and Kennedy as people who complain about the racks being given to them. Actually the person I referred to as being the one that caused the Sands to change over to rack your own wasn't either of them.

You're right about Varner checking the rack closely in fact he's always said "everybody deserves a good rack". In all fairness I think he's always given others a good rack as well. As for Tommy Kennedy, I can't really say and I'll have to defer to you having played him. I will say that of all the pros Varner and Kennedy seem to two of the nicest of the lot! Go figure!

CarolNYC
04-21-2003, 03:16 AM
Wow,
This is the first I've heard of this!I think its very unusual ,due to the fact that, I could rack my rack to make that 9-ball pocket everytime-hmmmmmmmmmmm!
Carol

CarolNYC
04-21-2003, 03:22 AM
Hi Joe,
How are you? Yep-there it is-9-ball 5x in row!
Stay well!
Carol~knows Joes racking techniques:):):):):)

Rich R.
04-21-2003, 06:56 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote 9 Ball Girl:</font><hr> If it's for reducing any arguments, they should just have a neutral person do the racking. JMO <hr /></blockquote>
Although you have one possible solution to the problem, there are not usually enough "neutral" people around to do the racking. /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

L.S. Dennis
04-21-2003, 07:51 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote CarolNYC:</font><hr> Wow,
This is the first I've heard of this!I think its very unusual ,due to the fact that, I could rack my rack to make that 9-ball pocket everytime-hmmmmmmmmmmm!
Carol <hr /></blockquote>

Carol,

This is why most players would 9 (or should) check that person's rack who happens to be racking for him self TO STOP THEM making the 9 nine ball on the break. I think most people know the little secret of how you can rack the balls so that you have a good chance of the 9 ball going. This can be neutralized very easily with a quick check of that persons rack before he/she breaks. Problem solved there, all in all this is a better system for everyone.

9 Ball Girl
04-21-2003, 08:17 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr> Although you have one possible solution to the problem, there are not usually enough "neutral" people around to do the racking. /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif <hr /></blockquote>

I've actually been a racker a couple of times. Of course I get my gapper at the end... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

CarolNYC
04-22-2003, 03:16 AM
Hi there,
Absolutely-CHECK THE RACK-and, may I add , in a respectful manner!:)
On the Pechauer NEWT tour,our coordinator,Barbara, has started "any game on the hill" SHE racks the balls,allows players to check the rack and if breaker makes the 9 on the break,she wins money-neutral racker,no questions asked!:):)
Stay well!
Carol:):)

Popcorn
04-22-2003, 05:45 AM
How do you rack to make the 9 ball every time? I can rack so as to get the 9 headed in the direction of the corner pocket, but it is easy to see what I have done, nothing you could really do in a match. Could you use the Wei table and show how it is done?

Steve Lipsky
04-22-2003, 08:05 AM
Racking to make the 9 every time is impossible, but it's pretty easy to get it flying towards the corner. Put a space between the 9 and one of the balls just below it.

You can do this without making it look obvious. Just keep playing with the rack until a space like that appears. It eventually will. This advantage is so big that if your opponent racks for you, and while checking the rack you note this space is there - you should accept the rack even if the 1 is not completely frozen.

- Steve

L.S. Dennis
04-22-2003, 10:37 AM
Steve,

You're right about this type of rack. This is precisely why you need to check the rack when someone is racking for themselves to prevent the person from having that little gap behind the nine. By doing so you will virtually eliminate that person making the nine on the break.

All in all I like the rack your own format as do most other players. As Nick Varner says "eveyone deserves a good rack!"

Barbara
04-22-2003, 10:44 AM
That's right!! I reserve the right to make that rack since it's my money I'm offering up!

Here's the deal: if a match goes hill-hill and the breaker makes the nine on the snap, she wins $50. This is offered only once during the whole tournament, so once it's been won, it's not offered again. And I get to rack or it doesn't count.

It's a neat little incentive. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Barbara~~~thinking about "letting it ride" for the year...

SPetty
04-22-2003, 11:15 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote CarolNYC:</font><hr> Absolutely-CHECK THE RACK-and, may I add , in a respectful manner! <hr /></blockquote>Howdy,

I've been told that it's bad manners to stand up by the racker while they're racking. Is that true? I was told you should stand where you'll be breaking from until the racker is finished, then walk on down and check the rack. Seems like it would save time to just watch 'em rack in the first place.

Any thoughts?

Predator314
04-22-2003, 11:21 AM
In the tournaments that I have played in where you break your own rack, the opponent has the option of examining the rack and making you re-rack (before you break).

9 Ball Girl
04-22-2003, 11:40 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SPetty:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote CarolNYC:</font><hr> Absolutely-CHECK THE RACK-and, may I add , in a respectful manner! <hr /></blockquote>Howdy,

I've been told that it's bad manners to stand up by the racker while they're racking. Is that true? I was told you should stand where you'll be breaking from until the racker is finished, then walk on down and check the rack. Seems like it would save time to just watch 'em rack in the first place.

Any thoughts?
<hr /></blockquote>

I don't know if it's bad manners or not, but I don't stand near the racker when they're racking for me. The only time I do is when I'm playing for fun and I'm doing some woofing. Anyway, after the balls have been racked, I'll walk over and check it. From what I've seen, the racker gets pissed off that you have the audacity to check the rack--especially if you're ahead in games. As a TD Assistant, I've seen it where the racker racks, the breaker then goes and checks the rack, and before the breaker can say anything, the racker, with an attitude, warns the breaker that they're going to have to rack it themselves.

I say to hell with it, check the rack. I've made the mistake of giving the racker the benefit of the doubt only to break and realize that I had a $hitty rack. When I'm the racker, I don't feel like I'm being sharked or whatever when my rack is checked. If anything, sometimes I call the breaker over to make sure that my rack is ok with them. It's all in the sportsmanship.

Wendy~~~damned if you do, damned if you don't!

Rich R.
04-22-2003, 11:50 AM
SPetty, I don't know if there is any "official" procedure for checking the rack, but I have to agree, it is bad manners to be looking over the shoulder of the racker. Whether racking your own or for the other player, the racker should be allowed to finish racking and inspecting the rack, to his/her satisfaction, before the other player steps in to inspect. JMHO.

CarolNYC
04-22-2003, 03:31 PM
Steve,
Sorry my error in wording-definitely impossible to make EVERY time, but a good 75%-and it also depends on a good,solid hit of the rack-a nice "CRACK",not a thud,ha ha ha-also,if your going for right side,break from left and vice versa!
Carol:):)

CarolNYC
04-22-2003, 03:42 PM
Hey SPetty,
I've never had someone stand right next to me when racking-you can actually tell when someone is TRYING to give you a good rack or just doesnt give a damn!I feel the people who love and respect the game know the right thing to do-I check my racks, not out of disrespect, but ALOT of times when the racker is done, a ball moves out of place without them being aware of it-there is no rule, its just "doing the right thing" !Now, if I see someone INTENTIONALLY not care about a good rack, then I know I won already, cause there too scared to give a good rack,ha ha ha!
Take care!
Carol

CarolNYC
04-23-2003, 03:20 AM
Yep-that sounds good to me!:)
Carol~laughing at "blah"ha ha ha ha

CarolNYC
04-23-2003, 03:31 AM
Hey Barb,
Yep-you run the tour,you call it-and you can bet if I was the breaker, I would definitely agree on coordinator racking the rack-:):):)
Carol~"9-ball,corner pocket,ha ha ha"

CarolNYC
04-23-2003, 03:38 AM
I'd rack for you anytime Rich,
I was watching Earl vs. Mika(yesterday)-sudden death-saw you AGAIN!:):):)
Carol~misses Rich but just watches pool and sees him!:):):)

Rich R.
04-23-2003, 04:05 AM
Carol, one of these days, we have to stop talking and play some, to see who is going to rack. I have a feeling, the only time you will rack, is when I win the toss. /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Those matches from Baltimore have been on ESPN so many times, I'm looking for my residual check. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

L.S. Dennis
04-23-2003, 10:21 AM
Better yet, why just switch over to Grady's nine ball rules which already has rack your own incorporated into his format! I personally would like to see that but unfortunately I know it will never happen. Too bad!

Steve Lipsky
04-23-2003, 10:44 AM
My main issue with rack-your-own is that the sets turn into package-fests. Players find the sweet spot where the corner ball or the 1 goes, and that's it. There's nothing you can do as the opponent to prevent it.

It's true that it goes both ways (that you get this advantage when you're breaking), but I don't think the 9-ball break should be a guarantee. For the top players, the game is just too easy when they're making balls on the break all the time.

- Steve

Kato
04-23-2003, 11:09 AM
Ssshhhh, don't tell anyone but when I check a rack I don't really know all the ins and outs. I just check to make sure the balls are sort of touching. Just walking up to the rack and "inspecting" it seems to get me good racks.

Kato

04-23-2003, 11:19 AM
Wow yall put alot of stradegy into your breaking lol, im a big 300+ lbs guy i always just go up and hit the ball as hard as i can, i use some stradegy but wow i never knew it went this far ???

04-23-2003, 04:21 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote 9 Ball Girl:</font><hr> If it's for reducing any arguments, they should just have a neutral person do the racking. JMO <hr /></blockquote>
When you have a neutral racker, is the opponent (non-breaker) allowed to ask for a re-rack? Example-there's some space behind the 9 ball.

9 Ball Girl
04-23-2003, 07:25 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote 9 ball junior:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote 9 Ball Girl:</font><hr> If it's for reducing any arguments, they should just have a neutral person do the racking. JMO <hr /></blockquote>
When you have a neutral racker, is the opponent (non-breaker) allowed to ask for a re-rack? Example-there's some space behind the 9 ball. <hr /></blockquote>

Oh yeah. You should still check the rack, regardless of who's racking it. It is the breaker's right after all. Hell, I've seen both the breaker and his opponent check the neutral racker's rack. But all in all, I'm sure you'll still get the arguments! You've seen racks that have been racked by a Sardo rack get questioned...

L.S. Dennis
04-24-2003, 12:10 AM
Steve,
Your comment implies that if your were not using rack your own format that you could stop your opponents corner ball from going in (almost every time) thereby nullifying the sweet spot that you allude to. Can you elaborate on this?

It sounds like your implying a certain "adjustment of the rack" in some fashion if you're racking for your opponent.
A little clarification please,
Thanks

CarolNYC
04-24-2003, 03:11 AM
Rich,
Hmmmmmm-stop talking? If you can teach me how to do that, because YOU know how excited I get when I see you and Cathy,then we'll play!ha ha ha
I'll rack-lately I have ALOT of practice in this! /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif
See ya soon!
Carol /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

CarolNYC
04-24-2003, 03:18 AM
"Example-there's some space behind the 9 ball"Read Steve Lipsky's response up top-you have the right to ask for rerack,check,etc......if everything else is tight,leave it and BREAK'UM!
Carol /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif ~thinking you mean space BELOW 9-ball!

CarolNYC
04-24-2003, 03:23 AM
Gettum RJ,
And put your hand over the rack as your looking and you'll really scare them!:)
Carol:)

Steve Lipsky
04-24-2003, 07:18 AM
LS, as long as most of the 1 ball is on the spot (and the spot cannot be "seen" from the break position), it's a good rack. Any tournament director will uphold this.

Let's say that the first rack you give your opponent has the 1 ball perfectly on the spot, and the corner ball goes. The next rack you give might be 1/2 inch above the spot (most of the 1 is still on it), and this may prevent the corner ball. If this doesn't work, you may be able to go even a little bit higher.

It's important, as the racker, to watch the corner ball on the breaks you give. If it's hitting the top part of the pocket (meaning the part of the pocket closest to the breaker), raising the 1-ball when racking will usually stop it from going.

You can do the same analysis if the 1-ball is flying into the side pocket.

- Steve

L.S. Dennis
04-24-2003, 09:56 AM
Steve,
Thanks for the good informative response to my question. This is precisely the sort of thing that I was looking for.

The only other way I've heard of to stop the corner ball from going in (and this comes from Pat Fleming) is to rack the balls with the numbers facing each other. His reasoning being that the balls are natually fatter at the numbers and that by racking with the numbers facing each other some how prevents the corner ball from flying in. I think the jury is still out on that one!

By the way I came across your picture in the June 1999 issue of Billiard Digest, always good to put a picture to a voice (in this case text)!

cuechick
04-24-2003, 08:37 PM
Me niether Carol, till I moved down here. On the Tommy Kennedy Tour it is rack your own, though, it is up to the players. Most of the men I have played have been fine with loser racks. I had to play Johnny Archer and I racked for him, after all I didn't want him to get worn out after making all those balls and I needed something to do!!=}

CarolNYC
04-25-2003, 04:07 AM
Ahhh,Im happy for you Lara,
Its great to hear your playing with the best!:)And if you need a racker,just say the word-I'll rack for both of you!
Way to go!
Stay well!
Carol:)~BTW-4 teams left,we come back next week!:):):):) /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

9 Ball Girl
04-25-2003, 08:06 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote CarolNYC:</font><hr> ~BTW-4 teams left,we come back next week!:):):):) /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif <hr /></blockquote>

And you'd better keep coming back! You're on my favorite team after all... /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

CarolNYC
04-26-2003, 04:13 AM
Thanks Wendy,
"Coach" is looking GREAT!No doubt!:)
Carol~"Sin City" here we come!!:):):)