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snook
04-20-2003, 10:37 AM
what is 14.1?

L.S. Dennis
04-20-2003, 10:49 AM
This is a game commonly refered to as 'straight pool' where one opponent runs 14 balls of the table and leaves one ball out to use as his/her break shot for the upcoming rack.

Unfortunately it's not played that much anymore but at one time used to be the premeir championship game. Check out the BCA rule book if you want all the particulars.

WaltVA
04-20-2003, 10:51 AM
14.1 Continuous or straight pool - for rules, go to http://www.bca-pool.com/play/ and look under "Rules - 14.1 Continuous" on the left.

Walt in VA

thepoolnerd
04-20-2003, 02:26 PM
It's a great practice game to gauge your improvement. I spend about a half hour a day on 14.1 and record my high run of the day on a calendar. Good practice. It's also a good idea to practice long shots before and after 14.1 practice. They don't come up a whole lot.

Tom_In_Cincy
04-20-2003, 02:51 PM
L.S.Dennis

WE are in our 16th session of 14.1 league here in Cincy.
32 players signed up for this Summer's session.

There is a league in Indianapolis, Louisville, Columbus and Canton OH also.
New York City has two 14.1 leagues. Last time I checked anyway.

Not sure abourt the rest of the country.. but its alive and well in the mid-west

dg-in-centralpa
04-20-2003, 05:33 PM
/ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif Tom- not many people play 14.1 in my county. A league would never survive. Only a few at our local pool hall play. Guys with their dates will play 8 ball and everyone else will play 9 ball. Wish more would play, seems like it's becoming extinct. When was the last time it was shown on TV? I have no clue.

thepoolnerd
04-20-2003, 08:16 PM
We have 3-4 leagues a year in Columbus. One guy started them all. More people like to play 14.1 than you would think. I hate to see nine ball taking over as the pool game of choice. I like em' all but it sure is nice competing in something different.

snook
04-20-2003, 08:25 PM
ok, i understood straight pool perfectly, just didnt know it was also called 14.1 thanks alot guys. ive played it maybe once i think, but i like the idea of recording my days record i might try that

SecaucusFats
04-20-2003, 09:13 PM
Straight Pool is the game that separates the men from the boys.

Nine Ball pales by comparison. Nine Ball is a gambling game and is tailor made for TV and the terribly low attention span of the masses.

Once, at the age of thirteen (34 years ago) I witnessed a 150 and out game in a pool hall in Yonkers, NY. From start to finish everyone in the place was enthralled by the masterful way the player handled the game. You could have heard a pin drop. When the last ball went down, we rail-birds clapped loudly and cheered.

If you want to see a good old tournament, get the "Clash of the Titans" 1966 BCA US Open 14.1 Championship Match tape. The tape features Hall of Famers- Irving "The Deacon" Crane vs. Joe "The Meatman" Balsis. You will see Crane, one of the greatest players who ever lived, run 150. The tape is available from Billiard Fanatic. It is Black and White and runs 1 hour and 6 minutes.

Fats

#### leonard
04-21-2003, 12:03 PM
Was that at Charlie the Bears poolroom in Yonkers?####

Jack Jr
04-21-2003, 12:14 PM
Pocket Billiards is at an all time low when 14.1 is a game that someone cannot identify to.

9 Ball has definitly ruined the game.

snipershot
04-21-2003, 07:04 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Jack Jr:</font><hr> Pocket Billiards is at an all time low when 14.1 is a game that someone cannot identify to.

9 Ball has definitly ruined the game. <hr /></blockquote>

Don't bash 9 Ball because it has put 14.1 out of business (so to say), it's the more popular game throughout the world.... deal with it

Nostroke
04-21-2003, 07:24 PM
Or was it the Lad and Lady? Anyway, who did it?. Speaking of straight pool anyone know the status of Waterdog AKA Buffalo Bill? Is he still around Chicago?

Hopster
04-22-2003, 12:52 AM
If you want to see a good old tournament, get the "Clash of the Titans" 1966 BCA US Open 14.1 Championship Match tape. The tape features Hall of Famers- Irving "The Deacon" Crane vs. Joe "The Meatman" Balsis. You will see Crane, one of the greatest players who ever lived, run 150. The tape is available from Billiard Fanatic. It is Black and White and runs 1 hour and 6 minutes. &lt;--Secaucus fats

Fats is dead right, this tape is great. I forget how many times ive watched it. I play a lot of straight pool but i just cant seem to get a run out of the 20,s, my high is 30. Discourages the hell out of me but i keep trying cause i love the game.

04-22-2003, 05:28 AM
hey am new here, but down in philly on the real shooters play straight pool, and my suggestion to you if you want to get pass your 30, is to never look at any shot as a duck no matter how easy it is, and focus on each shot, on avg, when am shooting straight pool, i'll take atleast 21/2 racks, and i hate nine ball, i shoot alot of straight and one pocket. it's like playing chess. and for the record the most i've ever run in straight pool was 65 balls, and miss a dead ass duck, so again i say " NEVER LOOK AT ANY SHOT AS IF IT IS JUST A DUCK. EVER EVER EVER, DONT EVEN THINK IT FOR A SEC "

Hopster
04-22-2003, 01:42 PM
" NEVER LOOK AT ANY SHOT AS IF IT IS JUST A DUCK. EVER EVER EVER, DONT EVEN THINK IT FOR A SEC " &lt;--muujahid

Good advice, im guilty of that offense many times. Matter of fact that has stopped quite a few runs that might have turned into something.

04-23-2003, 03:06 AM
I have the Balsis - Crane, but my true fave is the Sigel 150&amp;out (only have the '89 one!). I love this guy. Gets me so 14.1 hungry! When I get in stroke in straight pool (for me that usually means hi runs in the 30s), a simple nine ball run out just seems like child's play... Get the feeling of "Are you trying to telling me this is the game the top players spend their life banging? NO WAY!"

Popcorn
04-23-2003, 08:19 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SecaucusFats:</font><hr> Straight Pool is the game that separates the men from the boys.

Nine Ball pales by comparison. Nine Ball is a gambling game and is tailor made for TV and the terribly low attention span of the masses.
<hr /></blockquote>
I hear that repeated all the time, most I think got it from the movie COM, I don't think it is that true. There are subtleties to straight pool, opening clusters, moving balls at times out of the rack for break shots, break shots themselves. But in general the game moves fairly easily if you know the game. It is very flexible, lets you correct many mistakes you may make in running balls. Often, what you try do may not work at all, yet if you leave an alternative shot to escape you can continue running balls, this all involves what I refereed to as knowing the game. I would be curious though, specifically, why you feel straight pool is such a superior game? You know, I believe it was Johnny Archer, who having never played the game, after a few weeks ran something like 150 balls. Its is a great game, but in my opinion, is not the brain surgery many like to paint it to be.

Jack Jr
04-23-2003, 01:03 PM
As someone who has grown up and witnessed the greatest players in the world playing the greatest game (14.1).

Mosconi, Caras, Mizerak, Sigel, Martin, Hopkins, Crane, Balsis, Margo, My dad (Jack Colavita) etc.. I can only say that the 9 ball players today could not hold a candle in a straight pool match to any of the above.

I witnessed the beginning of the 9 ball era and the level of competition and calibor changed.

The respect for the true game of pocket billiards from a fan and skill aspect has diminished.

9 Ball will and will always be a game of mostly luck.

Maybe that is why I quit the game.

The game has taken a step back.

Jack Jr.

Hopster
04-23-2003, 01:37 PM
I almost forgot to mention Jimmy Rempes two tapes from accu stats. How to run 100 balls which is great as he and Pat Fleming analyze the run as it happens
Also how to run a rack in straight pool is the other tape and is a great instructional.
If you dont learn anything about the game from these two tapes you aint never going to learn.

dave
04-23-2003, 01:37 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Its is a great game, but in my opinion, is not the brain surgery many like to paint it to be. <hr /></blockquote>


Thank you. My sentiments exactly! These debates about the merits of this game versus that game arise periodically. Each game has it's own unique qualities and virtues to be experienced by those paying attention. dave

Wally_in_Cincy
04-23-2003, 01:40 PM
And Mike Sigel's "Perfect Pool" tapes

04-23-2003, 05:34 PM
well, their are some advantages to playing straight pool, you'll develop patience, consisty, and most importantly stragetly, now i myself play alot of straight pool &amp; one pocket because i love the mental challange it brings me. as for 9 &amp; 8 i only shoot those games, when am shooting with someone who either does'nt know any other games,or is to afarid to play straight or one pocket, most of the money games today are on 9 &amp; 8 because people think they have a chance, but running 9 or 8 balls of the table, really does'nt make me feel great, i'd rather play one pocket or straight.

SecaucusFats
04-27-2003, 10:02 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Nostroke:</font><hr> Or was it the Lad and Lady? Anyway, who did it?. Speaking of straight pool anyone know the status of Waterdog AKA Buffalo Bill? Is he still around Chicago? <hr /></blockquote>

It was the Lad and Lady on South Broadway, which btw,is no longer there. Unfortunately, my memory is not what it used to be and I can't recall the player's name.

Fats

SecaucusFats
04-27-2003, 10:45 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Jack Jr:</font><hr> Pocket Billiards is at an all time low when 14.1 is a game that someone cannot identify to.

9 Ball has definitly ruined the game. <hr /></blockquote>

I agree with you. The majority of players today have no idea what straight pool is, much less how it is played.

9 Ball is popular because it is what the pros play. It is what the pros play because it is ideally suited for TV, and that is just the plain and simple truth. Before it became the favorite of the TV execs, it was a game for gamblers because it is quick, it is all slop, and there are plenty of chances to luck out.

You cannot win a straight pool match with one shot. You can win a nine ball game with one shot in a variety of ways:
You can snap the 9 in OTB.
Your opponent can run eight then miss the nine and you then make the 9 and win.
You can slop the 9 in with a 'smash and pray' shot.
You can get an easy combo on the nine..again one shot, one win.

Not so in straight pool where you must make 75, 100, or 150 to win while calling every single shot and leaving yourself a good break ball for the next rack.

Is 9 ball popular? Yes, but then again so are burgers, fries, and taco chips. Some of us prefer something of a more substantive nature.

The greatest player in the history of pool--Willie Mosconi was a straight pool player. To the naysayers I say: show me a 9 ball player that can equal Mosconi's record run of 526. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Fats

Scott Lee
04-28-2003, 01:07 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dave:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
Its is a great game, but in my opinion, is not the brain surgery many like to paint it to be. <hr /></blockquote>

Thank you. My sentiments exactly! These debates about the merits of this game versus that game arise periodically. Each game has it's own unique qualities and virtues to be experienced by those paying attention. dave <hr /></blockquote>

Right, Dave! Add to that, that a well-rounded player can play ALL billiard games...perhaps not equally well...but knows HOW to play (this includes snooker and 3-cushion billiards)! IMO, this is just one reason why Efren is considered the best on the planet...at any given time! LOL
He can play ANY game, expertly, at the drop of a hat! I pride myself in being able to play any game equally, and reasonably good at all of them! I also think that is directly related to being able to "trust in your stroke"!
Confidence begets consistency...and consistency begets more confidence! It's an endless spiral if you continue to improve! You better believe that Efren is at the top of his game, and still continues to get better...just like Tiger Woods!

Scott Lee

Hopster
04-28-2003, 03:33 AM
The greatest player in the history of pool--Willie Mosconi was a straight pool player. To the naysayers I say: show me a 9 ball player that can equal Mosconi's record run of 526.
&lt;--SecaucusFats

I hate to say no one will ever do it cause thats what they said about Maris,s 61 homer season, but i dont think anyone will.
Anyone know the story about a guy named Eufemia or something like that ? He is supposed to have done it but there seems to be little proof. Anything to it ?
Shame there is no real footage of Wille from the 40,s 0r 50,s when he was champ. That would be priceless.

04-28-2003, 03:48 AM
I don't quite feel that 9-ball is a game of luck, but it certainly doesn't compare with 14.1 ball, a game I'm sad to see has declined. But most people's attention span is comparable to a gnat's, and to ask them to focus on a game that lasts more than 3 minutes is like asking them to explain quantum physics. Simply not enough room upstairs.

I was privileged to see Mosconi give an exhibition, during which he ran something like 350-400 (I forget the actual high). But his performance was stunning. It was like seeing a robot shoot. He simply moved around the table, no facial expression, no histrionics, just making ball after ball, stroke so smooth, textbook perfect, his english so precise that it was like getting 'ball in hand' for each shot. You'd have to see a video or film of him shooting to know what I'm talking about.

People who downplayed Mosconi because he was mostly a tournament player and not a 'gambler' had no clue. At his peak there were simply no other money players who could beat him, and that's why he didn't get into many 'money matches' -- there was no one left to beat. That's why he turned more to exhibitions and tournaments. Minnesota Fats got savaged by Willie in about 1949, when Mosconi proceeded to methodically take every dollar that Fats' backers had put up. For many years after, Fats bragged that he had 'met and conquered' Willie, which so ticked off Mosconi that he had a standing challenge to Fats at the Sands in Vegas -- Willie would play Fats for $100 large (or portion thereof), any game, any time, Fats calls the game. Willie's backers (certain, er, Vegas 'investors') had 100 grand in the safe, ready for Fats to take. Fats never accepted. If Mosconi were less of a decent guy he actually was, his pals would have probably put out a contract on Fats, just to make Willie feel better (ha ha).

Comparing 9-ball vs. 14.1, I find that most really good 9-ball shooters can play a decent 14.1 game, but most of them (especially those who don't know where the brim of a cap is supposed to go, or for some reason can't find pants that fit) cannot hold a candle to a good 14.1 or 1-pocket player.

When I play or practice at a pool hall, I often get these kids coming up to me, asking whether I "wanna play a game", essentially offering that I deprive them of their allowance or lunch money. I always politely decline.

04-28-2003, 03:59 AM
I wonder if around the turn of the century the 18.2 Balkline players spoke ill of the 14.1 game. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I thoroughly enjoy most pool games. And while I love the game of straight pool, I certainly do not put the game on a pedestal. For the most part it is a fairly simple game. Most solid C players can run 12 or 13 balls in a row. The key to straight pool that doesn't come up in any other game is what I call "making the turn", i.e. choosing or manufacturing the break shot. "Making the turn" is genius in its purest form. When someone talks about Mosconi making a run of 526 balls, I'm not really impressed with the number 526. What I'm impressed with is the number 35. That's the number of times he made a good break shot after running the rack.

Nine ball has its own nuances also. A straight pool player who never really played nine ball would have a much harder time crossing over than a nine-baller trying to play 14.1. 14.1 players don't normally have to move the rock like nine-ballers.

One pocket is a game I've been increasingly obsessed with. It's an enigma.

I would actually like to see nine ball replaced with ten ball (there are far too many table runs in nine ball). I would also like to see seven ball erased from history forever. Its a useless game.

#### leonard
04-28-2003, 06:51 AM
What is truly amazing about that game is that Irving never had the cueball under control the whole game. He made many game shots to keep the run going. The only game I can compare to that was when Babe Cranfield ran 141 and out on Irving in the Worlds Championship and his last 20 shots were all spectacular shots. It was the first time the Babe had ever beaten Irv in a tournament game.####

Rich R.
04-28-2003, 08:09 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote shoop:</font><hr> A straight pool player who never really played nine ball would have a much harder time crossing over than a nine-baller trying to play 14.1. 14.1 players don't normally have to move the rock like nine-ballers. <hr /></blockquote>
I have to disagree with this point. In fact, I believe the opposite is true.
I have known straight pool players who picked up 9-ball with no trouble at all. I don't believe 9-ball players could do the same with 14-1.
To use your own term, 9-ball players know nothing about "making the turn".

Steve Lipsky
04-28-2003, 08:35 AM
I think the real problem most exlusive 9-ball players have with straight pool is their inability to break up balls effectively.

They choose subpar secondary break shots, shoot them at the wrong speed, and with the wrong spin. Their safety game is off as well, as it is much more difficult to play safe in 14.1 than in 9-ball.

Obviously I am generalizing, but if they make 3 or 4 of these mistakes in one game, they're going to get creamed by good players.

It's not all one-sided though. There are a number of nuances of 9-ball that 14.1 players have trouble with. Kick-safing is definitely high on that list.

- Steve

Rod
04-28-2003, 11:58 AM
Right, Scott, Glad I found this part of the thread. People that play just one game or two are short in depth of knowledge. You take knowledge from another game and use it in any game.

Early on I played 8 ball, 9 ball, 14-1, Rotation, One side =(actually rotation a player having 3 pockets on one side of the table), Snooker and Golf. When I moved to LA, 3C and 1P was added.

My best three games, in no particular order, was 14-1, 9 ball, and Golf. I felt real comfortable playing any of the three. I learned playing every game and I contribute that to my ability and success over the years.

Now I'm not well rounded, perhaps an egg shape comes to mind. LOL

Rod

Hopster
04-28-2003, 04:24 PM
What is truly amazing about that game is that Irving never had the cueball under control the whole game. He made many game shots to keep the run going. &lt;--Leonard

Now that you mention it he did get in trouble quite a few times. Also near the end he almost scratched in the side and he stopped and took out a hanky and had to wipe his head. Yes, he did stop quite a few times to re evaluate the table as he got out of line.
Im going to watch it again tonight, for about the 100th time. lol