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View Full Version : What do you think about 8-ball?



CrispyFish
04-23-2003, 08:43 AM
I realize 9-ball is super popular and a lot of people look at 8-ball as an amusement and/or bar game. But...

As I've been playing it more often, I'm getting more respect for the game. It has a lot of elegant aspects to it: shotmaking, clusters, position, safeties, breaking out key balls, etc. I hadn't really realized how much thought and skill could go into the game until very recently!

Kato
04-23-2003, 09:10 AM
8 ball is certainly not brainless. My problem is that I'm too agressive, don't play the best position, and in general just can't get there.

Kato

Eric.
04-23-2003, 09:27 AM
Agreed. I think 8 ball is an "underated" game. It can be played "run-n-gun" or more like a One Pocket game, depending on the break.

My only 8 ball peeve-seems like in Bars, every friggin Bar seems to have a different rule i.e. "you must call the CB off the rail and the OB banking off the side rail, before going into the pocket." Yeah, O.K...


Eric

pooltchr
04-23-2003, 09:46 AM
I think it depends on your mood. 8 ball is a lot of fun, and requires more planning, but a different strategy than 9 ball. In 8 ball, you try to leave your "misses" close to the pocket, a deadly habit in 9 ball. But for pure strategy and skill, one pocket and 14.1 are beyond comparison. I look at one pocket as being like playing chess on a pool table playing both offense and defense on every shot. The bottom line for me is if you use a cue and balls on a big green table, it's ALL good!
Steve

04-23-2003, 11:13 AM
I started playing 8 ball when I started playing i like the game but would much rather play straight pool I have alot better chance of learning something in my opinion, but yea i agree 8 ball does deserve more respect.

Rich R.
04-23-2003, 11:57 AM
I think the first pool game most of us learned, as kids, was 8-ball. This may be why that game does not get the respect it deserves.
Both 8-ball and 9-ball, when played well, are very challenging. However, the challenges, and strategies, of each game are quite different.
Both are good games. /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

eg8r
04-23-2003, 12:10 PM
I never grew up playing 8 ball. My father and grandfather both played straight pool entirely. So my first years of playing "pool" was playing straight pool. We had a table at the house for the specific desire of my mother for us kids to not go to a bar to play pool. When I got to college, I was introduced to 9 ball. This is the only game that was being played by the "regulars" so I learned to play 9 ball. Only the bangers were playing 8 ball, so I never gave it much thought.

Now, I am playing it a little more often, and I "don't hate it". /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

Wally_in_Cincy
04-23-2003, 12:23 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr> I think the first pool game most of us learned, as kids, was 8-ball. This may be why that game does not get the respect it deserves.

<font color="blue">It seems that when players achieve just a little bit above "banger" status (or think that they have)they believe they have to play 9-ball to look like they are good players. </font color>

Both 8-ball and 9-ball, when played well, are very challenging. However, the challenges, and strategies, of each game are quite different.
Both are good games. /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Yep. I think anybody that knows more than a little bit about pool realizes that 8-ball, when played properly, is as challenging as most other pool games.

Wally~~barely above "banger" status and respects all pool games

Perk
04-23-2003, 12:38 PM
I enjoy playing the game eightball, especially when you are playing someone better than yourself. The game changes dramatically, basically if you miss and your opponent has the capabilities to runout. If both players have runout capability, the game is fun.

I practise by myself basically playin ghost. After the break, you can choose to runout or play safety. If you chose to runout and miss, you lose. After the safety, you can choose to play safe again, or runout. Same scenario, when you make the decision to runout, you better get out.

I play in alot of team tourneys 8ball, and if you miss or get careless, the game is done. Almost every player at the tourneys I attend, runout on any type of open table.

8ball can be fun if you make it that way and learn all aspects, besides running out. Some have said that 8ball has tons of strategic measures. It is too bad that there are not many pro events featuring 8ball. This would help some upcoming players to see some other features to the game.

How many times have you witnessed or been the one running out and missing a shot only to leave the door open for the opponenent?

9 Ball Girl
04-23-2003, 01:06 PM
One word comes to mind when I think of 8 ball: Strategy

NBC-BOB
04-23-2003, 01:07 PM
I use to play it all the time years ago, and enjoyed it.As someone else mentioned,the rules change all the time, depending on where you are and that's a pain.I heard that in some 8 ball league's they even play cueball in hand at times. I for one don't like that rule in any game!
Play the game,enjoy it! and find out what the rules are before hand.

Fred Agnir
04-23-2003, 01:33 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote CrispyFish:</font><hr> It has a lot of elegant aspects to it: shotmaking, clusters, position, safeties, breaking out key balls, etc. I hadn't really realized how much thought and skill could go into the game until very recently! <hr /></blockquote>I think 8-ball can be enjoyable at every level. Its safety net feature really allows beginners to stay in the game and enjoy it, whereas I think pool today would lose potential players if it (8-ball and the safety net) didn't exist. And of course, it's strategy, patterns and choices makes it good advanced game as well.

I just wish there was an easy way for beginning players to expand into more challenging execution games.

Fred

Fred Agnir
04-23-2003, 01:39 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote NBC-BOB:</font><hr> I heard that in some 8 ball league's they even play cueball in hand at times. I for one don't like that rule in any game!<hr /></blockquote>Professional 8-ball has used the full-table ball-in-hand rule for about two decades. I don't know of one major amateur 8-ball league that doesn't use the one-foul ball-in-hand rule.

Care to share why you don't like the rule?

Fred

CrispyFish
04-23-2003, 01:40 PM
What do you mean by "safety net"?

Hopster
04-23-2003, 01:42 PM
My only 8 ball peeve-seems like in Bars, every friggin Bar seems to have a different rule i.e. "you must call the CB off the rail and the OB banking off the side rail, before going into the pocket." Yeah, O.K &lt;--Eric

Thats one reason why i never enjoyed playing in bars. You got these brain surgeons coming up with rules from the west side of the great wall of china every 5 minutes.
Who needs that nonsense ? I enjoy playing the game on the 4 x9 tables. Much better than 9 ball in my opinion.

Fred Agnir
04-23-2003, 01:45 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote CrispyFish:</font><hr> What do you mean by "safety net"? <hr /></blockquote>Since you aren't forced to shoot any specific ball like you would in rotation games, then the vast majority of beginners and intermediate 8-ball players will still be "in the game" even if they blow position because there are other balls to shoot at for a while. It gives them more opportunities (then they should have), and beginners won't stick with pool if they don't have opportunities to play and pocket balls.

Fred

9 Ball Girl
04-23-2003, 01:48 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> I just wish there was an easy way for beginning players to expand into more challenging execution games.

Fred <hr /></blockquote>

Wax on, Wax off. Wax on, Wax off. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif Ok, ok...

I think beginner players should play by calling their pockets. IMHO, that's way more challenging than slopping the balls in. Sometimes when I'm practicing by myself, I'll get challenged by a "banger" to some 8 ball. I'll play their slop way and I'll win. Then they want to play again but this time I tell them to call their shots. Frustration at its best! So, I think they should call their shots as beginners. JMO

Wally_in_Cincy
04-23-2003, 02:13 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr>Since you aren't forced to shoot any specific ball like you would in rotation games, then the vast majority of beginners and intermediate 8-ball players will still be "in the game" even if they blow position because there are other balls to shoot at for a while. It gives them more opportunities (then they should have), and beginners won't stick with pool if they don't have opportunities to play and pocket balls.

Fred <hr /></blockquote>

And if you extrapolate that concept straight pool should be more popular. If not for the proliferation of the barbox I think it would be.

Wally_in_Cincy
04-23-2003, 02:19 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Perk:</font><hr>

....How many times have you witnessed or been the one running out and missing a shot only to leave the door open for the opponenent? <hr /></blockquote>

More times than I can count /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

A couple of years ago I began actually putting into use a concept that I had known for a while. "If you can't make 8, don't make 7" (or sometimes just estabilish your group and play safe). aka Larry Schwartz's "Don't kill off all your soldiers" rule. My winning percentage improved. However, I don't take this rule to the extreme in league play because it just makes the games last too long sometimes.

CrispyFish
04-23-2003, 02:20 PM
I don't know if straight pool would be more popular. In casual play, 8-ball offers "lesser" players a chance to win due to the luck factor (8 out of turn or scratch on the 8). Straight pool is much less forgiving. A superior player might make a mistake, but will probably come out on top in the end. It can be *very* frustrating for beginners!

Fred Agnir
04-23-2003, 02:22 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr>
And if you extrapolate that concept straight pool should be more popular. If not for the proliferation of the barbox I think it would be. <hr /></blockquote>In the northeast (or at least in my area of Western Mass), this was true in the pool halls and bowling alleys pre-COM. Nobody played 8-ball in the pool halls. Everyone played straight pool.

Fred

CrispyFish
04-23-2003, 02:23 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Perk:</font><hr>"If you can't make 8, don't make 7" (or sometimes just estabilish your group and play safe).<hr /></blockquote>
Cappelle argues for this strategy in "Play Your Best Pool". I've employed it many times, quite successfully. If I don't think I can get to my trouble ball, I let my opponent do it for me. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Tom_In_Cincy
04-23-2003, 03:05 PM
True, CrispyFish,
But, 14.1 is a game that can be played at any level, just like 8 ball. 14.1's rules are about as simple. There are two guys that are presently playing a race to 1500. They are about average players and have a lot of fun.

Two equally skilled players playing 14.1 in a race to 100 will have just as much FUN playing that game than a race to 10 at 8ball IMO.

I like both games and have played both in competition. 8 ball between two advanced players is really something to watch. Especially on a bar box. Cluster management, and startegy are very exciting during these games.

04-23-2003, 03:18 PM
Sudden death vs. sudden victory. Clumps of balls left in your way by agonizingly slow and spastic shooters. Bar rules that favor scratching ... people play this game -- rather than 9 ball -- for any reason other than for the glory of holding the table till closing time and staggering out into the street with their winnings gurgling in their gullet? OK as a change of pace, but wouldn't make a habit of it.

On off-hours, I'd rather get 2 games for my 4 quarters ... one rack of 9 ball, then another with the 10-15.

Wonder if it would pay off for a bar owner to just remove the last 6 balls from the box and post Tex Express rules. Would have to make the list move faster, eh?

stickman
04-23-2003, 03:18 PM
Variety is the spice of life! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif I enjoy all games played on a pool table.

snipershot
04-23-2003, 04:09 PM
As pointed out before 8 ball is great for the beginners, it gives them a good opportunity to learn the game. My favorite part of 8 ball is that it's a great game to play partners, something alot of players don't do very often, playing partners just adds more strategy to an already strategic game. 8 ball or 9 ball you can't go wrong either way /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

SpiderMan
04-23-2003, 04:39 PM
8-Ball, played by BCA or similar rules, is probably the best short game around for utilizing a balance of skills.

SpiderMan

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote CrispyFish:</font><hr> I realize 9-ball is super popular and a lot of people look at 8-ball as an amusement and/or bar game. But...

As I've been playing it more often, I'm getting more respect for the game. It has a lot of elegant aspects to it: shotmaking, clusters, position, safeties, breaking out key balls, etc. I hadn't really realized how much thought and skill could go into the game until very recently! <hr /></blockquote>

SpiderMan
04-23-2003, 04:43 PM
I agree, and the best thing about that is the ratio of blockers to legal balls keeps increasing with every shot you make, so running out in 8-ball is like a progressive drill except you have to plan as well as execute!

SpiderMan

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote CrispyFish:</font><hr> What do you mean by "safety net"? <hr /></blockquote>Since you aren't forced to shoot any specific ball like you would in rotation games, then the vast majority of beginners and intermediate 8-ball players will still be "in the game" even if they blow position because there are other balls to shoot at for a while. It gives them more opportunities (then they should have), and beginners won't stick with pool if they don't have opportunities to play and pocket balls.

Fred <hr /></blockquote>

04-23-2003, 05:16 PM
Aahhh Yes, 8-Ball
. . . The only game in pool where a seven ball spot and the break,

Don't weigh an ounce.'/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

landshark1002000
04-23-2003, 09:33 PM
Hi Steve:
I think 8-ball rivals 14.1 and one-pocket because all three are strategy games requiring deft timing for both offense and defense.

Yes, you can bang the balls and still enjoy it. (You can play a simple game of chess too.) But eight ball is still a game (unlike 9-ball) where brains can beat skill.

Ball in hand rules may apply in lots of places but it robs the game of it's natural opportunity for defense. Time is too precious to many players (with good reason) for long defensive struggles. So ball in hand is appropriate for tourneys and leagues where most players have to limit how late they play.

Time and convenience are ruining pool. Or just shaping it into quicker, better, faster games like 9-ball. It's a bit of the convenience store idea brought to pool. Why bake a cake when you can buy and fly?

I'm just old and stale. I like a game with flavor and I've got the time to savor the pleasure of playing it.

I think ball in hand is like sex without foreplay. Some of us still think it's worth the time to put the cue ball in the kitchen.

--Ted from Phoenix

stick8
04-23-2003, 10:31 PM
Well here is a old man post, when I started playing It was rotation , no8 ball no9 ball.I also played snooker. dont wont to pat by on back but I think rotation helped my position play and snooker my strategy game. so when I started playins 8@9 ball I was ahead of some players. Just a old man openion. OLD MAN STICK /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif <font color="red"> </font color>

bigbro6060
04-23-2003, 11:12 PM
8 Ball is THE pool game in Australia, the UK and many other countries

i agree that it can be enjoyed by beginners and advanced players alike

at a high level it is definitely a strategic chess match

at a low level, yep its just dem bangers

Fred Agnir
04-24-2003, 06:22 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bigbro6060:</font><hr> 8 Ball is THE pool game in Australia, the UK and many other countries<hr /></blockquote>UK 8-ball I assume? Even if we know the rulez, I don't think we (who have never played UK 8-ball) are thinking on the same plane as you.

Fred

Ralph S.
04-24-2003, 06:59 AM
I play mainly 8 and 9 ball, some 14.1 and 1p. Eight ball is a very good game particularly like when two very good players hook up. One mistake no matter how small and you can rest assure youre gonna lose.

cheesemouse
04-24-2003, 07:21 AM
I've learned to respect the game of 8-ball due to the fact that most competitions in my area are 8-ball events. It's a simple to understand game for beginners and it lends itself to coin-op tables where the advanced games of 14.1 &amp; one-hole don't. I agree with you on the game at advance levels. In Open 8-ball events it is pretty much the gun and run style of play, sure you can win the occasional game with good defense but you can't win events relying on defense you simply have to take off and run even if it means out of control shuffling of the deck, once you take off on the run you have to continue even if your out of line.....that's the percent play at the AA level of play that I see.......

Sid_Vicious
04-24-2003, 08:57 AM
I like 8-ball except for one thing, overuse of safeties, making for a l-o-o-n-g drawn out, time consuming game. I'm not talking about the safeties that come natureal, I'm talking about the "safety kings" who feel they can't pass up the chance to pick you apart by stickin' it to you instead of making the easy split out and running the remaining 3 balls. Other than that, I like 8-ball, AND I would not take safeties outta the game, it's just too slow for my taste...sid

NBC-BOB
04-24-2003, 01:01 PM
Well Fred I suppose I'm a little outdated. I've never played in a league, but have been playing for a long time and I guess everything changes over time.As far as cueball in hand goes I just think it takes away from the game. To me the object of the game is to control the cue at all times.I think most pro's will run out, most games with ball in hand,the majority of the times and as is, they always make it look easy.Do you think jumping balls, should be allowed?It sure looks good when I see it,but if I was a room owner,I don't think I would allow it.I would be concerned about ripped cloth,or someone getting injured.
Take care bob

Fred Agnir
04-24-2003, 01:10 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote NBC-BOB:</font><hr> Well Fred I suppose I'm a little outdated. I've never played in a league, but have been playing for a long time and I guess everything changes over time.As far as cueball in hand goes I just think it takes away from the game.<hr /></blockquote>If full-table ball-in-hand takes away from the game (I honestly don't know what that means), what are you used to doing for penalties for fouls? Surely you're doing something for fouls. No matter how many years you've been playing, there's always been some sort of penalty for fouls.

What "game" is full-table ball-in-hand taking away from?

Fred &lt;~~~ thinks pros make things look easy no matter what

CrispyFish
04-24-2003, 01:13 PM
Bob, I think you're right that the object should always be to control the cue ball. I look at ball-in-hand as fair punishment for losing control bad enough to foul. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Aboo
04-24-2003, 02:48 PM
I completely agree with this. If I lose control of the cue ball bad enough to give my opponent ball-in-hand, I deserve to lose that game. No matter what game I'm playing.

I tend to like 8-ball and straight pool a lot better than 9-ball though. There is a LOT less strategy involved in a game where you always know what your shot is. I'm not saying there is NO strategy, just less. And I like strategic games. I play percentages, I will always play an easy safety over a chancy run.

The thing I hate most about 9-ball though, is all the luck involved. I could be shooting lights out and some banger gets lucky and makes the 9 on a break and gets an easy combo on the next one and I'm done. That's not pool, that's Roulette /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Different strokes for different folks I guess. I do realize however that 9-ball is definitely more of a precision game, and that is abundantly clear, especially at low levels. If you play 8-ball a lot though, you will notice that getting out of line in 8-ball is almost always just as damaging as getting out of line in 9-ball, it just takes longer for most folks to see it in 8-ball. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif