View Full Version : Hustlin
Now, i'am making this post because i would like to know, how many people go out trying to hussle, and how many people run into those who try and hussle us. now when i say go out hustlin, i mean walk into a poolhall, shoot with a house cue, ask your friend that came in 20min behind you, " hey friend can i shoot with your cue" when it's actually your cue he's carrying, lol, purposly missing, acting like your mad, banging the stick, pouting, the whole nine, even losing 10 or more games in a row, then uping the bet and comming out on top, lol..
now how many of us come across those types, and instantly think this guy / girl must think am stupid, is she/he really trying to hustle me. lol
but if your like me, i'll say the hell with it, and play the guy / ladie trying to hussle me, and i intentionally lose the first game, to see what am working with, which is a problem because he/she is trying to do the same, but once i get a feel for your game, then i shoot to kill, i get really quiet & focused, and do my best to let you know don't ever come in here and try to hustle me, if you want to play for money just say it. sometimes i get offended, but i still to this day love to see people trying to hustle. it makes me think of " the hustler " & " the color of money ". lol
please share your experiences and thoughts.
04-23-2003, 06:44 PM
Wow...I didn't know you could type that far using only commas.
Anyways I as of yet have only encountered one guy try to hustle me in this little bar in the middle of nowhere by Mt. St. Helens where I am from. I usually shoot there, but I do not fit the prototypical player type. Look like preppy Corey Duell. That "he can't play pool, but looks like he has money" type of look.
Anyways we play. As we play the first rack he decides that he is going to teach me how to shoot pool, what ball he is setting up for, which to shoot..etc. The whole time I was like "Oh yeah...wow...I see that now...thanks for the tip". The whole time grinning inside. And asking questions fueling his fire of thinking I am a banger. The next game he asks to play for $5. I say okay. I win by one ball. He says again? I says sure and beat him this time because he missed the 8.
Now he is mad, looks like he is going to quit, so I say lets play for $10 so you an get your money back. He racks em and I win by two balls after ducking another one and leaving him bad. Now he is fuming and he says he wants to play for $20, so I say OK. Then I broke and ran on him and he quit. I could see that was going to be his last game anyway from his body language.
A couple words of advice : Never underestimate your opponent.
9 Ball Girl
04-23-2003, 07:09 PM
Well, I'm not the hustling kind but I have seen some in action. I feel that if you've got game, then shoot lights out. Play fair, why try to "downplay" your game, acting like you don't know what you're doing, JMO. But, but but but, I have seen the hustling game backfire.
In other words, an old case of when the hunter becomes the hunted... /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
04-23-2003, 07:51 PM
lol, seen this one just the other day. i'm not the best shooter by any means and dont feel i could take a hustler so i usually avoid strangers wanting to bet something because "i looked really good from where they were sitting" but i do keep an eye out for other players just because im always looking for a good match.
anyway some banger walks up and asks if i want to play for twenty in a race to 9. i tell him no thanks so he compliments me some and i tell him on a little firmer. anyway i see this guy up at the counter getting ready to get a table and then see's me and him suddenly he tells the lady no thanks and hands her his stick grabs a bar stick and walks over and puts fifty in one of the six footers. he shoots and plays pretty bad. finally the banger walks over and asks him if he wants to play a little. he watches the guy thats shooting bad for another game and decides he'll play him for twenty in a race to 9 and spot this guy THE TWO!!!! i would of played him with a spot on the two. anways the banger gets the table next to me and breaks hit a few this guy with the house stick gets down 2 to 5 and suddenly starts getting "lucky hooks" and brings it to 4-5 the banger is obviously a little worried and they play on. this kids with a house stick has horrid hand form but his stroke is just smooth as can be. they keep going the bangers up 6-8 and its his break, he breaks, misses the one the new kid hits the one two and the banger racks. he breaks horrible and when it comes back around he sinks the 3. bangers racks and is obviously worried. 8-8 the guy with the house stick calls the nine on the snap and sinks it. the banger gets mad, breaks down his stick, hands him the twenty and walks out. then the new guy goes up and gets his stick and a table and starts shooting next to me like nothing ever happened. we talked for a bit and played a few. it was a great day.
sorry for the length and lack of grammar skills.
04-23-2003, 11:14 PM
My buddy thinks he's a hustler. I get a kick out of it. He's a solid 5 with a silky smooth stroke, so he can manage his own on campus or against the drunks and the less fortunate at the poolhall.
He meets this guy that's his english mentor/tutor. He says he plays Pool. Of course my buddy is now pretty intrested. He asks what stick he has, guy says oh just a stick, he asks if he runs any drills, guy says: drills?
So my buddy is pretty confident now. His bankroll is only 50 but he's gonna hustle this guy for everything he has to offer. So they meet up and play in my hall (I wasn't there to watch, but I got the story).
My friend loses the first one, wins the second, loses the third, and then begins tanking shots left and right so this guy will begin to ante up the bet more than 5 bucks. Turns out, my friend ends up tanking 50 dollars worth of matches (with only a 20 to his name). And some where along the way this guy went from being a banger to a decent shot.
So now my friend's worried. He's 50 in the hole and only 20 on him, he must start winning. He pulls out his A game. My friend just starts shooting the lights out, ran 2 racks straight without flinching. Pretty soon this guy is wanting to play double or nothing, when he's up! My friend says sure! He goes from -50 to +5.
Turns out they were both trying to hustle each other. My friend came out on top. But he's still an idiot in my book. He didn't learn his lesson: just shoot like your gods gift to pool and the high rollers will go your way, don't try to hustle for a buck. His new theory, instead of tanking shots and games.. tank position, makes you look more sloppy. He has a point, but I still think shoot your A game and the money will come.
ok, here's one i did just last year, me and a friend of my that i shoot with at our poolhall, decide to pull a color of money, except we were'nt traveling. so we both went to cvs and bought these crazy looking by focules and put on your worst clothing. Now we walk into this new poolhall here in. and were shooting with house cues, now you know theirs always a few in the poolhall that just can't seem to mind their business. So were in thier yelling bet this and bet that, i even went so far as to change my accent,lol. Eventaully some guy walks over with his girl and wants to play a few games with us, so my friend goes first and loose's so bad, even the guys girl wanted to play, now get this the guys girl is like " why dont you guys play for some money " and my mouth dropped, i was in shocked that it came out of her mouth. So my friend is like well am not that good, and the guy says ahh that ok me either, " oh boy, if he only knew, am thinking ". they play for $10 my friends loses like $50. Then the guy ask me if i want to play so i tell him, man am scared you just to $50 from my friend so he say well, i'll let you break each game and i'll give you the 7, so with a lil hestation i went for it. now i loose $30 and he's grinnin his ass off. now he's get dis-respectfull, starts shooting with one arm, huging and kissing on his woman while shooting, and it was kinda pissing me off, but i kept my cool. So out of the clear blue in the middle of the game, they says hey i'll give you a chance to win your money back, let play for it all my $30 and my friends $50, i say to him, can i still have the break and the 7 he says sure, and mumbles i can't loose. when i broke, i made myself look like such and ass even i had to laught. Now when i broke, i broke so wildly i went so far as to letting the cue slip out of my hand and on to the table. this guy could'nt take the smile off of this face. i shot so clumsy everyone was laughing, but most were amazed at how he just managed to keep loosing. every single game. finally he quit, because i was'nt quitting till he did. we beat him out of $300 and the worse part of all this, is when we got in the car, he pulled up to the light next to us, and i took of the glasses and smiled while me and my friend drove off. till this day we still laught about that one. lately i have'nt been acting.......
man was that funny.
In my opinion hustling is stealing. Its shameful, immoral, and dirty. It represents only the worst of what this game has to offer.
In the twenty years that I have played this game I have probably totalled hundreds of thousands of in wagers made. I have never thrown a set or a game to entice my opponent to play for increasing amounts.
Concealing your actual speed is one thing. But intentionally losing money is underhanded and does nothing to further the game of pool. You may have made a quick 300 bucks, but you did so at the expense of your opponent, the room owner, your own integrity, and the reputation of every pool player in town.
The sad part about it is, if you would have given the young man a small spot and played him honorably, you could probably have had the chance at relieving him of 50-100 bucks over several sessions of playing in the next few years. By going for the easy score you've deprived yourself of an opponent who doesn't mind wagering a few bucks here and there.
04-24-2003, 08:24 AM
I think you have been watching too much TV. Assuming your story is true, what would you have done had he just quit with the $80.00 you let him get ahead? Trust me, take that act on the road and you will be sending home for money pretty quick.
9 Ball Girl
04-24-2003, 08:31 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> I think you have been watching too much TV. Assuming your story is true, what would you have done had he just quit with the $80.00 you let him get ahead? Trust me, take that act on the road and you will be sending home for money pretty quick. <hr /></blockquote>
Either that or he'll be sent home with broken thumbs! /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
If it were me, I'd like to see the money up front before I start playing.
04-24-2003, 09:00 AM
I agree with you from a moral stand point it is dishonest and I haven't done it in years. In reality though, in a gambling situation between two individuals, (Not say a casino), as long as all the rules of the game are observed, if I down play my speed to make the other player think he has a better chance of winning, I am not really doing anything wrong, we are gambling, it would not be that different then bluffing in a poker game when you don't really have the winning hand. You would not suggest I say, "Take the pot, I don't really have a better hand then you do." Hustling can be a hard subject to discuss because some really see it, as you say stealing. Objectively it is not the most sporting thing to do, but then gambling is not the most moral activity either. I would say there are not really any innocent parties either way when you are gambling.
04-24-2003, 09:37 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> Objectively it is not the most sporting thing to do, but then gambling is not the most moral activity either. I would say there are not really any innocent parties either way when you are gambling. <hr /></blockquote>
There's an old saying; "You usually get conned when you think you are conning someone else."
04-24-2003, 09:38 AM
Hi Muujahid. I'm just curious as to approximately what speed you play? Philly can be a pretty tough place to look for easy action. Are you choosing your marks carefully, or do you play very well?
04-24-2003, 09:45 AM
I don't like talking about this subject here because I know how some feel about it. But the idea of letting someone get ahead and then raising the bet and so on, is strictly in the movies. When you play an unknown player, your major concern is their willingness to play. Letting them get you stuck tells you nothing, they may quit winner or quit when you get even. You always win right from the go. If they pull up right away, you were not going to win anything no matter how long the game lasted, you take your little winnings and move on. You may offer a spot, but chances are they will quit quick no matter what. If you get the guy stuck and he shows a willingness to keep playing and chase his money, you may now begin to coast a little to keep him in the game but slowly bleed him out of his money, kind of a carrot on a stick method. He just can't seem to get his game together and get his money back. Like I said, I don't like talking about this but this is how it is done in the real world. You may employ things to not draw attention to yourself. I used to like to ware a shirt with a name on it like a truck driver may ware and a hat, when I was in bars. I think it just makes it better if you look like everybody else. For the most part though, that C.O.M. stuff is silly. I really don't not like that movie, for the most part, it is really stupid.
9 Ball Girl
04-24-2003, 11:43 AM
I agree with you. I just think that hustling should be done cautiously and smartly. There are plenty of fish out there and the hustler had better make sure that he/she's not stuck heading up the river with a boat and no paddle, you know? Choose wisely, especially when you're on someone else's turf. JMO
04-24-2003, 11:47 AM
I never got into this "acting" style of hustling. It's corny and anybody can catch on quick. I've hustled the drunks in the bars quite a few times by letting them think I'm drunk (I never acted drunk, just kept a drink in my hand). A drunk person that thinks they can shoot pool is a very easy target.
P.S. A drunk person that no longer has his drinking money will want to fight. Bring a friend.
04-24-2003, 01:22 PM
Well I have been playing for a long time and never tried to hustle anyone. However years ago I was playing in a bar in colorado springs and we were playing for beers.One guy asked me to play for money and I said no.Later on he asked again and we played.I broke and ran 3 racks in a row and the guy pulled a gun on me.I gave him back his money and it wasn't much maybe $6.Overall I think I play well and have put in a lot of practice time to reach the level where I'm at.I want to get on the table and play the best that I can,at that time.I guess I don't have what it takes to hustle, so I don't.
04-24-2003, 01:31 PM
Never had a gun pulled on me, but I've been hit awful hard. It hurts. I've never given any money back either. However, if I ever did have a gun pulled on me, I would give back the money plus a tip /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif
04-24-2003, 01:41 PM
I broke and ran 3 racks in a row and the guy pulled a gun on me. I gave him back his money and it wasn't much maybe $6.
I would have done the same thing.
One of my buddies took me to a tournament in a very small town about 50 miles from home. It was in a very rough bar. In the first match I beat the local player 5 Ė 0. He got mad and asked me to play some for a hundred a game, when I agreed he got mad and wanted to play for a thousand. My buddy (who was the player) jumped up and put a grand on the table and yelled rack them up (meaning for me to play).
The guy just got mad and walked off. We didnít think much more about it. A few minuets later he walked back in with a shotgun /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif, we grabbed our stuff and ran out the back. Leave it to me to call out a nut.
closest thing to hustleing that I have ever done is slack on my break and possibly the first 1 or 2 shots I figure I can see someones game and tell if i need to play this guy for money if he can run the table from the 3 with skill, and [censored] why not let them make a few balls for you ?? /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Guess everybody can't help but get a kick out a good hustling story, but how about the marks? Since it takes two to tango, would anybody like to offer a description of the typical sucker? How lousy a shot is he, compared with how good he thinks he is? We talking C- or so ... can get out from the 7 maybe 1 out of 3 times? Or just anybody with an inflated ego?
04-24-2003, 02:52 PM
I watched Tony Watson try to put the hustle on one of the local hotshots one night. It was no contest. Tony came in acting all crazy wanting to shoot for some cash. The owner backed the local hotshot against him. The local guy was a really good player, just not even close to Tony's league at the time. He is close now, but Tony would still beat him in the long run. They were playing for small money (in Tony's terms), like $10/game. Tony was getting his butt kicked. He was down like $100. He kept wanting to shoot for more and more money. The local hotshot wanted to shoot for more too. He was suckered bad. The only thing that saved him was that the owner knew Tony and finally told Tony he knew who he was and he wasn't upping the bet on him. Tony proceeded to beat the mortal crap out of the hotshot, getting back to even in 10 straight games. They quit. Both down a few bucks for the cost of the table. Pretty good show though.
Had the owner not known Tony, he would have made out like a fat rat.
04-24-2003, 03:50 PM
Quite honestly, the mark as you call him is usually a good player. I think the impression is often given, you are playing players that can't hold a stick, this is not always case. In fact in most cases, you are playing one of the better players in the place or town. Unknown to them, you know a lot about them, yet they don't even know you exist. You know the guys speed, what he bets, what he likes to play, what he will lose, where he plays and when he is there. More times then not, the guy is a predator himself, just lower on the food chain, that is why he is willing to play. Bar hustling is different. Bar hustling with multiple players and not one in particular player is just like working. You play the night away and see how you came out.
If it is put in perspective, and you go back a few years, hustling pool was almost a legitimate profession. Gas was 40 cents a gallon, you could stay in a motel for $15.00 a night and the average guy was raising a family on $200.00 a week. At the same time a good pool player, (not necessarily great), on the grind, could make from nothing to a few hundred a night. I don't think I would be wrong to say a guy doing well, may have been earning more then 90% of the people with a legitimate job. The problem now is, costs are sky high and you may not even be able to make what you could make 25 or 30 years ago. People carry credit cards and ATM cards. They may have almost no cash on them at all. Much different then when a guy cashed his paycheck on Friday and walked around with it in his pocket. At one time hustling pool was a good job worth doing by a player so inclined. That is no longer true in my opinion.
04-24-2003, 04:08 PM
Have you ever completely stripped the finish off a sneaky pete to make it dirty all the way down? A guy I had a Kikel sneaky which he stripped down, and left the blue chalk all over the ferrule when he chalked. You couln't see the joint with the thing so dirty. Just wonder if he had to sneak the thing into bars with the butt strapped to one leg, and the shaft to the other.
Sounds about right, Popcorn, what you say about hustling being a bad deal these days. Money games seem few and low-key, at least in rooms I usually go to. In fact, in the past 3 months since I've taken up the game again and been putting in regular 3-4 hour sessions, I've only been approached a handful of times, and only for "practice." Safe to say intimidation is not a factor.
Almost miss the old days when there was always some buzzard trying to suck you in. If you know New York, you could always count on that at Julian's on 14th St. or up at old room on 79th & Broadway.
04-24-2003, 05:18 PM
Hi. In general I dont like cheating money out of people. But this one time me and my friend where in a very crappy situation. The time was about 1 at night and there was no way for us to get home from the poolhall except a cab. And the main problem was that we had no money on us /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif So we spotted two guys playing and drinking beer. The bar was almost empty so we knew that was our only hope. We offered them a 2vs2 game of 8-ball....and the thing that made the game more exciting was that the bet was so low that we had to win atleast 3games to cover the cab. So we started playing knowing that in case of a loss we have to grab our jackets and run /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif We got pretty lucky with these guys cuz they didnt know how to play at all..we played 4 games and earned the cab money plus cigs. Id never play without money again though cuz during the first game my hand where shaking pretty bad...luckily my friend kept a cool head and potted some balls /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif
well, popcorn i can agree with you on that one, but it was well worth the try and amusement. but on the other hand, theirs a lot of cockey shooters in philly. But most importantly i have been hustled before, i had a guy beat me in one pocket, this guy pulled so many tricks on me, i really felt like and ass by the end of the night, and to top it off, we were playing for $50 a game, and i lost every single game, my problem was at that time, i did'nt know when to quit. I always had a thought of mind, that i can come back and win and unfortuntaley that was'nt always the case.
Now are for hustlin being considered stealing, well it's not stealing, it's not like i robbed the guy or strong arm'd him for his money, but he was cheated a lil. am a very good shooter, i've been shooting pool since i was 8yrs old, when my grandfather first started to teach me and now am 23, so my basics are 2nd nature to me now, and i spend alot of time practing shot's and drills here on our home 9ft'er, so i'll say with complete confidence that in order to gamble on a pool table before you display skill,stragety, you first need to conqueror your nerves, because in most cases that is what i've seen get people beat, their nervous and can't think straight.
the bottom line is like 9ball-girl said earlier, i've been the hunter & i've been the hunted. and have won and lost in both cases.
and am sorry if i have offended anyone by this post, if you feel that hustlin is wrong, then by all means dont do so.
Well, first, I dont really enjoy or like people that try to hustle. I used to think that it was kinda cool watching other people try, but the more that I play and "been around the block", I think it is way to easy to spot, plus most everyone knows ya if you are in your local area anyways.
The only fun that I have ever really enjoyed happened while in college. I was a bartender at a local bar, 1 pool table, live music type a place. I would bar tend, making my tips and watch the table all night long. It was way to easy to see the "cockiness" come out of all the players. For me, I would wager my tips towards the end of the night and make tons of money over a period of time. One time in particular, an individual came in with some friends of his and claimed that he was there to play me. This was like 8:00. I told him that I couldnt play pool while bartending till the end of the night or till it slowed down. He said he was from Detroit (3.5 hours away, and wouldnt be around for a really long time). Anyways, he played pool ALL night long, losing every game imaginable. Like it was gonna draw me in. So he finally says about 12:00, lets play. I said naw, its not worth my time to stop bartending to play pool when you have yet to win more than a game or two all night. He him-hawed around a bit, and I finally told him to play a friend of mine who is fairly good, but not a good preasure player. I told him if he beat him once, that I would play him for what ever he wanted. Well, it took like till 1:00 before he beat my friend, so I came out and played him. 400.00 later he left claiming that I was the one that hustled him by letting him get drunk then playin. I didnt ask him to play, he asked me. So for those that enjoy that type of game, a good way to start is never ask anyone else to play, let them come to you. Then at least you wont look like the hustler.
<--done rambling, time for bed.
04-24-2003, 09:10 PM
(In a moment or reflection, Blackjack sits back and removes his halo)
Not only is hustling dishonest, it is also dangerous. I spent many years on the road and though I am not proud of how I made may way from place to place, but I am greteful I've lived to tell about it. There is an art to hustling, and your story did not sound anywhere close to a "hustling" story. Though hustling is dishonest and frowned upon, it is an artform, and should only be done by those who know what they are doing. One of the best "hustlers' ever was a a guy named "Springfield" Don Matherly. Don was one of the guys that showed me every dirty trick in the book, along with taking several years off my life by putting me in some very dangerous situations, some that actually stopped my heart for a few seconds (out of intense, paralyzing fear). Hustling isn't some kind of joke that you play on somebody, it is an artform designed for survival. If I were to hustle you, you'd never know it. That is what separates art from stupidity. After I had enough of "Springfield" Don, I went on the road with a man named Dexter Roberts. It was the difference between night and day. Don loved to live on the edge and live dangerous. With Dex Roberts, we made our way across North America more than once picking our spots very carefully. Our philosophy was simple. We would never win enough money to draw too much attention, and if we did, we'd escape in the least logical direction.
An example of that was taking $5000 off of Gene Skinner Houston,Texas. Knowing that he was trying to stall us from leaving in an attempt to get his cash back, but we told him we were headed in the logical direction of San Antonio, as there was a tournament there that weekend. Skinner made a deal with Dexter for us to match up there. In all honesty, we were headed to the tournament, but having unloaded Gene's pockets we could afford to skip it, and we heaeded towards New Orleans instead. Two weeks later I ran into a friend that told me that Skinner was looking for us the entire weekend in San Antonio, and by then he had found out he had been taken, which was not a familiar situation for Gene to experience, but hey, you only live once.
I won't go into the entire Gene Skinner story here, but you just didn't do that to Gene, and if you did, you'd regret it if he ever caught up to you, and eventually he did - and with a vengeance. The lesson there is - that as a hustler or road player, eventually you get a dose of your own medicine. In that scenario it came back and hit us both in the butt.
All I am saying is that I can't say anything that will stop anybody from hustling. All I can do today is say that I left that life behind, and it has been for the better. Many guys out there can frown upon it, but they would give up their left arm for a chance to do the same thing, and they know it. My advice???? Don't do it. I have nothing to show for it, and neither will you.
(Blackjack now firmly replaces his halo and disappears in the darkness of cyberspace)
[ QUOTE ]
now he's get dis-respectfull, starts shooting with one arm, huging and kissing on his woman while shooting, and it was kinda pissing me off, but i kept my cool. <hr /></blockquote> Why would this piss you off. I would think a real hustler would be happy to see this happening.
blackjack, i will not say for a second that your wrong, but in the event it was just and experience, that i had gond throught lucky for me it did'nt turn out worse. Unfortunately that is'nt what made me stop hustlin, a friend of mine was beaten to death in and alley way for beating a guy out of $10,000.00 now am not a broke guy and neither was my friend, but like you said it's and art, and he beat the guy so bad, i really think the guy wanted to cry. He beat this guy every single game, and the only reason it got to $10,000.00 is because the guy would keep raising the bet so he could get his money back. the weird part is the guy came to us, and we only had about $3,000.00 between the two of us, so i was backing him if he lost his money. but he never lost, untill this day. i tell anyone we can play for whatever you want to play for, just be straight with me, that and i got my license to carry. but to be honest with you, i'am going to give up gambling. I dont need the money i just love pool.
but damn, you have some inspiring advice. sheesh
AND THANKS TO EVERYONE FOR REPLYING, I HAVE LEARNED ALOT FROM SOME OF YOUR EXPERIENCE'S AND STORIES. I REALLY APPRECIATED THE INPUT.
P.S WHAT DOES'NT HURT YOU WILL ONLY MAKE YOU STRONGER !
04-24-2003, 11:07 PM
For me I've never hustled anyone and never been hustled myself, I do however play for money quite frequently. When I want to play someone for cash I go up and straight out ask them if they wanna play and for how much, I also never hold back to keep them in the game, I usually play my best and quit while I'm ahead. I just don't believe in manipulating someone out of their money, some people do but I don't. I wouldn't want someone to try and steal my hard earned money and the same goes for just about everybody. Just my .02
04-25-2003, 12:39 AM
Does this guy look familiar? I knew Gene Skinner for years, these pictures are around 1980. He played pretty good one pocket. I will tell you a funny story about Gene. I was playing him in a tournament and he somehow bit his lip. He had blood running down his chin the whole match. By the end of the match, I thought I was playing a vampire. It was on his face, his shirt, it was funny as hell. I wasn't going to say anything to him about it, he was already really mad at me. When he was dying of cancer he was in the poolroom playing a guy straight pool for $2000. He was dead only a week later. A real player to the end. I still have his cue, a rare ivory joint Szamboti. He gave me the cue just before he died.
04-25-2003, 02:17 AM
but the more that I play and "been around the block", I think it is way to easy to spot, plus most everyone knows ya if you are in your local area anyways<--- Perk
Yeah Muuj...(didn't see your name in the response)
I think that Perk is on the right track here. You don't even need to gamble if you are smart enough with your negotiation skills. Start/tone of voice/physicality comes majorly into play if people are coming up to you. If they think that they are giving you a spot they think they can beat you at, or if they think you are giving them the same, then you can do just as much damage that way. And you can play straight up, without "hustling". Like a previous person said, hustling really isn't around all that much anymore.
Most people can tell the strength of the other player, if they are dogging of not. Most of the time I look at their bridge and stroke. Both can tell you a lot about a person.
In my opinion, looking at your other posts, you are correct in wanting to get out of "hustling". Seems to me you will end up with something bad happening. Even if you have to pull that "carry" permitted weapon. Something bad will come from a result of it if you continue on your present way of thinking.
Again just another opinion from an avid player. Take it as you will.
04-25-2003, 02:20 AM
I appreciate that you had the opportunity to meet and play someone who meant alot to the game. Hopefully I will someday too...however maybe I already have and don't know it. Great memories
04-25-2003, 11:36 AM
There are peripheral dangers hustling pool. The least of your problems is the player you are playing. You have to be aware what is going on around you. I worry flashing money in a strange place and have turned down games, saying I did not have any money. There is no way I am pulling out a few thousand in some bar to post. A guy attempted to rob me in Richmond, KY. when I was leaving a place one night. I was playing a guy named Bobby Johnson and we were playing and throwing around money. When I was leaving a guy followed me to my truck that was parked about a block away. When I realized I was being followed, I made a run for it, when I got to the truck and got it opened I grabbed a pump riot gun I had behind the seat and turned around. The guy was about 20 feet from me and he stopped in his tracks. He ran back a little and behind a building. I got in the truck and left, but was glad I had the gun. The place I was in if I remember right was called Shepherds pool room and it was an action place, and money floating around was common, but you never know who is sitting around.
04-25-2003, 04:23 PM
I have never done this for money, but I love to play my potential opponents before the match and let them win so that they think that they will beat me.
It is a hoot.
04-25-2003, 05:07 PM
I would not recommend that to much, there is a lot to be said for intimidation. I would prefer the guy to be a little afraid of me. In a tournament, it can't hurt if you can put a little fear in a player. Something interesting, when two players gamble for a long period of time, the one that at some point thinks to himself, "Maybe I can't beat this guy after all," is the one that will lose, if it is a close game. You can watch two players play for hours dead even and in the last hour, ones goes bust. What changed was the losers confidence in the game. His mind begins a dialog of negative selftalk and begins to believe he can't win and gives up. At that point he is done. You can actually see it happening, almost like a guy in an arm wrestling match. He just weakens and ultimately collapses almost with a look of relief, like he is glad it's over. If you get a chance to watch players match up, do it. You learn a lot about the human nature of the players. I think it is one of the more interesting parts of the sport. Pool is a head to head competition, almost like boxing, you can see when the player goes down for the count.
04-25-2003, 05:27 PM
Good point Popcorn. They were so funny. They were typical sl2s. I just had a blast. Those two on one game were trying to get in the 8. After about 10 tries a piece, one finally got lucky. The worst one refers to herself as 'a good two'.
Amazing how confidence goes hand-in-hand with getting hustled. The target knows instinctively that he must keep his hopes up to have a chance ... throw in a compulsive-gambling problem, and you've got a guy who just won't allow himself, can't really, to honestly size up that the guy he's playing is a league better than him.
I don't mind playin a strong player like yourself. I'll try you playin even. Interested? Email me.
04-26-2003, 10:09 AM
"I usually play my best and quit while I'm ahead."
Could you explain this comment a little more?
04-26-2003, 04:25 PM
By this I mean that I'm a pretty conservative player when it comes to playing for money, there's alot of good shots in my area and you can go from being up alot to being down alot in a very short amount of time. With this in mind I usually stop shooting for money once I've won some and just shoot for pride/respect.
04-26-2003, 06:08 PM
Thanks for the honesty, but I would not tell the guy you are about to play your philosophy, I don't think you will get much action. I would rather see you play for less money so you can't get hurt and give yourself an honest chance to see if you can win, even if things begin going bad. In the course of a match, you may be up and down many times, but you need to play it out and see what the outcome will be. Give yourself a chance to stretch out and play. You may be a world beater, and don't even know it.
04-26-2003, 06:11 PM
Does this mean that if you and I were playing $20 a game and you had played enough to get $100 ahead of me you would quit wagering and then tell me that you would continue to give me your best game if I wished to continue playing for nothing just so I could see if I could beat you and if I beat you I would gain your respect???? I think you got it bass akwards my man..... /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
04-26-2003, 09:26 PM
Snipershot, with all due respect you are violating the cardinal rule of pool gambling. It is: Never quit a guy ahead without proper warning.
There are a few exceptions to this, such as if you get into a big argument with your opponent. But barring these, you are going to develop a very bad reputation - as well as run the risk of not getting paid.
Telling a guy before you start that you will only play, say, three sets, is fine. If you win all three (or two), it's perfectly OK to unscrew and leave.
Just try to put yourself in the other guy's place, and you'd probably be upset if the guy just quit you ahead with no warning. If you wouldn't be, I'm sure you can recognize that many people would.
that is such a nice offer, but i have learned alot in the last few days, and i've decided to give up on gambling all together. sorry, but some of the post i have read have made me think and really set me straight. but i will play for fun,respect, pride etc....
04-27-2003, 12:29 AM
I dont call it hustling what I did as a young man in the 60 Icalled it supplement my income. had a group of guys that played 9 ball on mon or tues nights. I would drop 10-15 bucks leave, come back on fri there payday,win 125-175 ever week. not to bad when you only made 65 at reg job. help feed my family. I call it street smarts!!!! OLD MAN STICK
04-27-2003, 01:57 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Steve Lipsky:</font><hr>
Telling a guy before you start that you will only play, say, three sets, is fine. If you win all three (or two), it's perfectly OK to unscrew and leave.
This is exactly what I do, I let my opponent know before the game starts that I am only going to play "x" number of sets, this way he knows if he loses he may not get a chance to win his money back, this isn't always the case though, if I play a good challenging game against someone and they ask for a rematch I will often play them again because I enjoy the challenge and enjoy the action immensely.
But like I said, I let my opponent know ahead of time that there is a chance I will stop if I get ahead. It may seem a little gutless on my part but heck, I don't get ahead all the time and when I go home down money my girlfriend always finds out and that's when the real trouble begins /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Chris-has to save his a$$ once in a while
04-27-2003, 02:55 PM
theres not much hustling around here with the exception of one kid who is always willing to lost 80 bucks a night willing you play BAD SPEED and give him the first couple of 10 dollar racks. other than that me and my friends play our best for 1,5,10 and when were really bored 20 bucks a rack its all good to us since were all 16-20 and only two of us are good enough shooters to create a challenge for the other. we just enjoy the play win or lose though.
04-28-2003, 09:03 AM
Blackjack...got any of these road stories in any of your books? I love reading road stories.
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