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L.S. Dennis
05-02-2003, 08:38 AM
First of all I want to say congradulations to Efren Reyes for making it to the hall of fame. He certainly deserves it!

I was reading an interview with Leonardo Andam yesterday and one of the questions asked by the interviewer was "why- or how- are Filipino pool players so good? Andam's response was as follows;

"We have an advantage because we play l lot of straight rotation. It's a much harder game, and you need to be more skillful than in 9-ball. It requires exact safety play and more accuacy."

"We also play a lot of three-cushion, it makes you a stronger player. Most of the places to play in the Philippines are 50 percent pool tables, 50 percent billiard tables. That's how Efen is so good!"

Makes sense to me!!!

Predator314
05-02-2003, 08:39 AM
They have a pretty good work ethic as well.

05-02-2003, 08:53 AM
a filipino, guy that i play with on sundays, he hella good, this guy used to beat me in straight pool, just walking in the poolhall, untill one day i got so pissed, we play i waited for him to miss one ball, and i ran a whole in his ass bigger than texas, i beat him 10 games straight, mind you we both come in on sunday at 10am, we did'nt walk out the door untill 7:30pm now i owe money because we went over the morning special which was $6. but after that he told me his secret. He said that when he shoots he does'nt try to do anything fansy, he just makes sure he pockets the balls. and that made so much sense to me, i literally felt stupid, because every now and then we just have to get pretty on the table. and i've watch this guy run throught and entire poolhall. he's hella good, it's come to the point now that we both know neighter one of better not miss. and that the bottom line.

Dont MISS [censored].

Aboo
05-02-2003, 09:21 AM
What is "straight rotation"?

I can understand why 3-cushion would help though. Seeing the routes, kicking out of trouble, etc...

05-02-2003, 09:26 AM
am not sure, i've never played " Straight Rotation " but the only reasonable thing i can come up with is playing straight pool in rotation meaning number order, 1-15.

damn, that would be 100X harder than regular straight pool, i might just try it tonight.

Aboo
05-02-2003, 09:29 AM
That's exactly what I was thinking :P Would make the blast break almost essential you would think. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

05-02-2003, 09:30 AM
naw, but it would make your banking skillz shetty sharp.

Kato
05-02-2003, 09:31 AM
Go back into the archives and check out Patrick's "Rotation Straight Pool" threads.

Kato

Fred Agnir
05-02-2003, 09:33 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Aboo:</font><hr> What is "straight rotation"?<hr /></blockquote>It's rotation. Plain and simple. As opposed to the other rotation games like 9-ball, 10-ball, 6-ball, or even Cribbage.

Fred

Fred Agnir
05-02-2003, 09:45 AM
From previous postings:

Gross generalization coming up, but it fits the post.

In the Phillipines, nothing with the possibility of making money is done half-assed. As a poor country, any gambling opportunity is highly welcomed. When pool was introduced, the Filipinos found it as a way to make money and have taken the SPORT to it highest level in a relatively short period. So, I would say it is social/culture thing. At least in the Philippines.


Of the players that get into it seriously, there is a higher percentage of those in the Philippines that get into it for survival. That's a whole lot different than being able to go to the Post Office or DonaldKings for a job if pool doesn't pan out. Those that can't survive playing pool don't play for amusement and will go to something else that they might have a chance at making a living. Maybe cock-fighting or Mah-jong tourneys. Again, gross generalization, but please get my drift.

To continue this, there are other relatively poor countries or countries that have gambling as part of their survival culture that haven't had American pool in their country for as long as the Philippines has. Remember, the Philippines was a U.S. Territory during some of pool's Golden Age. Those other countries like Taiwan for example have just recently in the past decade perhaps started to churn out World Champions. That's because they as an entire country have been getting seasoning over time. This really applies to Europe as well.

Fred

Aboo
05-02-2003, 10:05 AM
Sorry for my ignorance /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif
I'm from the mid-west and am still "young" to the game. Nothing I've ever played had been refered to as "rotation".

Thank you all for educating me /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Cueless Joey
05-02-2003, 10:52 AM
Rotation is a race to 61 points game.
You must hit the lowest numbered ball first. Points are determined by the face of the ball. 1 is one, 15 is 15 points. 1 to 15 adds up to 120 points. First player to rack up 61 points, wins.

Aboo
05-02-2003, 10:59 AM
Sweet /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif Thank you very much. That's another game I can add to my list :P

Eric.
05-02-2003, 11:34 AM
As far as the game of 9 ball, I think it has alot to do with the fact that they play Rotation AND 3C Billiards.

I started playing 3C on suggestion of a buddy, to improve my kicking and safeties. After learning a little 3C (a little knowledge is dangerous), I was amazed how much of the game can be applied to kicking and saftety routes.


Eric

smfsrca
05-02-2003, 11:50 AM
A quote from Efren Reyes answering the same question.
[ QUOTE ]

Because Filipinos like to gamble and play for money. They don't practice. The practice is gambling. A lot of pool players don't have jobs. Their job is playing pool.<hr /></blockquote>
To read the entire article about Efren go to http://www.theville.com/efrenreyes.html

TerryArdeno
05-02-2003, 03:09 PM
I would like to read that interview w/ Andam. If it was on the net, would you please post a link to that article? I always liked Andam &amp; Luat, but I never see anything written on them. Thanks for any help.

L.S. Dennis
05-02-2003, 07:50 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote TerryArdeno:</font><hr> I would like to read that interview w/ Andam. If it was on the net, would you please post a link to that article? I always liked Andam &amp; Luat, but I never see anything written on them. Thanks for any help. <hr /></blockquote>

If you want to read the interview, you have to dig out the December 1995 issue if Billiard Digest because that's where I saw it.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help
Dennis

bigbro6060
05-04-2003, 03:25 AM
here's my take

for starters, Efren and Busty are national heros, in contrast hardly anyone outside of the pool world in the US gives a toss about Earl or Johnny .

It's in the culture. In the Philipines pool is a big deal and when it becomes a big deal, people play it. Kids play it, being a good player gives you certain bragging rights at school just like being a good Basketball player or a Quarterback gives you bragging rights in a US high school.

With more players there is the transfer of knowledge from the old to the young.

When you have more people playing more often, then the cream rises to the top and you get more top level talent

I think Asian players also benefit hugely from being exposed and playing both Pool and Snooker almost equally

L.S. Dennis
05-04-2003, 08:50 AM
I think you're correct in what you say. If you really want to get some insight into the Filipino life style the link provided a few posts above about Efren Reyes is excellent!

Great article on "the magician"

Aboo
05-05-2003, 12:40 PM
This comment is awesome, I wonder if it still holds true?

"Incredibly, Efren plays with a locally made cue stick that is 20 years old and cost him $10 at the time. He said an American once offered him $10,000 for the cue but he refused."

Makes you wonder why we pay so much money for cue's and switch them so many times :P

Cueless Joey
05-05-2003, 02:32 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Aboo:</font><hr> This comment is awesome, I wonder if it still holds true?

"Incredibly, Efren plays with a locally made cue stick that is 20 years old and cost him $10 at the time. He said an American once offered him $10,000 for the cue but he refused."

Makes you wonder why we pay so much money for cue's and switch them so many times :P <hr /></blockquote>
That famous cue was made by a Filipino cuemaker named Jessie. What's not known widely is that the shaft on that cue came from a bowling alley floor. The shaft was long and skinny and very little deflection. More amazing is that Efren was offered by the late Gus Szambotti a cue and refused it.
The famous Jessie cue has been sold by a friend of mine.

arn3
05-07-2003, 01:14 PM
most american players have limited skills (only 9ball, think josh brothers), and there is no structure in the learning of the game (versus snooker, for instance).

there is a genuine effort to excel and succeed, whereas in the USA, pool is thankless, and one of the least productive ways to earn a living. thus it draws some of the most worthless, slimy, characters who are too lazy to work, and go through life with as little effort as they can muster. no wonder, then, that these pool players lack the discipline to round out their game, as it would be uncharacteristic of them to make the effort.

charlieb
05-07-2003, 09:31 PM
A couple of yrs ago a guy, Lorry, at Hard Times in Bellflower, Ca told me the same story about the shaft but I did not know that Efren no longer has it. I'm suprised.

Patrick
06-10-2003, 02:14 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Kato:</font><hr> Go back into the archives and check out Patrick's "Rotation Straight Pool" threads.

Kato <hr /></blockquote>My site has information about Rotation Straight Pool:

http://www.angelfire.com/film/rsp/

http://www.angelfire.com/film/rsp2/index.html


Patrick

miko
06-10-2003, 02:26 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Patrick:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Kato:</font><hr> Go back into the archives and check out Patrick's "Rotation Straight Pool" threads.

Kato <hr /></blockquote>My site has information about Rotation Straight Pool:

http://www.angelfire.com/film/rsp/

http://www.angelfire.com/film/rsp2/index.html


Patrick <hr /></blockquote>

This is totally different from the rotation being played in the Philippines.

Jimmy Mendoza
06-10-2003, 04:17 PM
I think that rotation has a lot to do with it. 9-ball for them is like 6-ball for us. Also, most (top) Filipino players seem to hit balls with inside english as well as they do with any other english. Us American players are taught to avoid inside english when we can because, "it's tougher to make the object ball with". Because of this, I think that the Filipino players have an entire array of shots that many American players just don't have.

Sparky
06-10-2003, 05:05 PM
That was a great article. I have watched Efren play on television a few times. He is incredible. Truly amazing!

"Sparky"

Sparky
06-10-2003, 05:10 PM
Excellently stated!!!!