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View Full Version : how do they come up with the APA handicaps?

pooljunkie73
05-03-2003, 10:41 PM
in my part of Canada thay don't have the SL type of rankings.how do they come up with them?are they based on winning percentage?if so,what would be my SL ranking be?my league winning percentage is 84%.any info would be greatly appreciated. pooljunkie73

05-03-2003, 11:24 PM
The APA handidaps are based on the number of innings you average on a regular basis--that is to say, that when both you and your opponent have shot in one turn, then 1 inning is marked--and also how often you win, let's say 84%.
The APA has a ranking system for both 8 and 9-ball.
In 8-ball, the skill levels are 1-7 (SL 1-7);
For 9-ball, the skill levels go from 1-9 (SL 1-9);
This system is called the 'equalizer' because it is purported to give everyone a fair chance to win.
For instance, a SL7 is the highest skill level in 8-ball, and would have to win 5 games before a SL3 won 2 games.
As you can see, this kind of system can put some strain on your win percentage. I know in order to maintain the SL7 in 8-ball requires the ability to break and run multiple racks of balls. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

05-04-2003, 06:54 AM
/ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

WaltVA
05-04-2003, 07:50 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote yepsam:</font><hr> ....For instance, a SL7 is the highest skill level in 8-ball, and would have to win 5 games before a SL3 won 2 games.... /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Minor correction: A S/L7 against a S/L3 would be a 6-2 race. A 7 against a 4 is 5-2.

Walt in VA

05-04-2003, 07:55 AM
The witch of the West and the Witch of the East

David is right. sls mean nothing. I am picking off people who are two sls above me according to apa. There were two whiny women with bad attitudes who according to apa are 2 sl above me. Well now I have beaten them both. They were fuming.

Then I proceeded to play our guy who thinks he is a good sl3 and thinks he is soooo much better than me. Well I played him too. He walked away in the middle of the game when I got him so tied up he could not get to any of his balls.

Sometimes it is more about guile than how many balls go in the whole.

It is no longer about sl anymore. It is about having my list of all the people I am going to beat. And I am checking it twice.

Laura

bluewolf
05-04-2003, 07:53 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote yepsam:</font><hr> The APA handidaps are based on the number of innings you average on a regular basis--that is to say, that when both you and your opponent have shot in one turn, then 1 inning is marked--and also how often you win, <hr /></blockquote>

If someone does a defensive shot that also counts. Also, every session, all of the captains get together and discuss players who are playing better or worse than their designated handicaps. Sometimes the sl numbers are changed as a result of this review.

Also, with new league players, their sl does bounce around a bit until they have played enough matches that the system can tell more accurately what the sl should be.

From what I have read, it is a computer thing and fairly complicated, so it is not always possible to know if your sl will change and when, either up or down.

Laura

UWPoolGod
05-04-2003, 09:03 PM
Here in Seattle we have one poolhall that offers USPPA tournaments every Sunday. I played in it for about 5 or 6 weeks until I got sick of having to wait around from 5-10PM for the losers bracket to finish. It is 9-ball and most of the matches end up going 5-4 with the lower ranked players. They rated me a 70 to start and after a few weeks of beating the tournament director(103) 5-0 I was bumped up to a 95. So then I basically I began spotting everyone three games on the wire. Which isn't all that big of a spot when you are playing starting players. You just can't make any mistakes and makes you concentrate harder. The style is alright, however I got sick of having to wait around all evening.

I have never played in an APA league

bluewolf
05-05-2003, 04:06 AM
We have 9-ball apa here too. They do the sl stuff kind of different. I read the local bylaws so have a general idea of how the play works, not how a person goes up or down in sl. I guess that is that complicated computer thing like it is in 8-ball.

I am getting on a 9-ball league in a couple of weeks so ww and I played a fake match. It is not exactly like real 9-ball though because you get points for every ball you get in and two points for the 9.

Instead of say a sl5 playing a sl3 in 8 ball where the 5 has to win 4 games to win the match before the 3 wins 2, in apa 9-ball it is based on balls sunk. In apa 9 ball, they have number of balls like a sl2 has 19 balls to get it, a 7 51, approximately, so the 7 has to get his balls in before the 2 gets in theirs.

The thing that makes apa 9-ball kind of strange is that you can get the 9-ball in and still lose.

Anyway, it was fun playing that one time against ww. I am pretty excited about the learning position skills especially and also getting better at long cuts.

Laura

UWPoolGod
05-05-2003, 09:06 AM
Yeah the USPPA tourney director has the discretion of what your handicap is, or submits his gripe to the upper board. I think he was just mad at having to spot me a game when it was 103-70 rating. It is even when I am a 95.

Michelle
05-05-2003, 02:07 PM
The APA organization won't release all of the exact mathematical code that derives S/L's, because they don;t want people to know how to manipulate them.

Some of the things that get taken into consideration are # of innings, # of safety shots, score of the match, S/L of your opponent, # of Break and Runs, and they also tend to throw out a certain number of your worst matches, in an effort to stop sandbagging.
(Of course, sand bagging still is rampant in S\L leagues and tournaments.)

From my observaion, a good way to judge someone's S/L is to see how many balls in a row they can run consistently.
I know I can run 5 balls at least 50% of the time when I get up to the table (8-ball), and I am an APA 5. APA 7's are usually out in 0-1 innings. You can give a little extra weight to players who play safe, or have a better overall "smart" way of thinking at the table.

bluewolf
05-05-2003, 02:18 PM
WHEN you are talking about running 5 balls, sometime during the rack. The four would run four balls during eack rack etc.

LAURA

Michelle
05-05-2003, 02:35 PM
Well, more like running 5 balls in one shot.
When you have an average looking table (maybe only 1 or 2 balls hooked), if you can run an average of 5 balls in one shot, then you are probably about a S/L 5.

That doesn't mean you are going to run 5 balls on every shot, because of hooked balls or defensive shots, or just out-and-out missing. But, again, I am speaking on averages here, both in the way you play and what a table looks like after the break when you walk up to it.

Another way to kind of judge S/L's without all of the APA math is innings.
An S/L 7 will usually average about 1 inning or 2 per game.
A S/L 5 will average around 3-4 innings, an S/L 4 around 4-5, and so on. Again, based on averages, and not taking safes into consideration.

05-05-2003, 04:05 PM
How do they determine handicaps? That is the million dollar question. I am told that the above mentioned items (innings, safeties, opponents rank, etc...) all figure into the APA's algorhythm for determining handicaps. Exactly how they figure in, nobody knows for sure. You've got a better chance of finding somebody who knows where Jimmy Hoffa's body is burried than finding someone that knows (and will tell you)the formula which generates handicaps. This is one of the top three best kept secrets in America. If you put Yoda, Ghandi, and Fast Larry in a room for a month, I bet you still couldn't get an answer.

pooljunkie73
05-05-2003, 08:53 PM
thanks for all the info ladies and gentleman.now i'm really confused.maybe we can get 9 ball girl and the feds to check things out.lmao.thanks any way. pooljunkie73

9 Ball Girl
05-05-2003, 09:00 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooljunkie73:</font><hr> thanks for all the info ladies and gentleman.now i'm really confused.maybe we can get 9 ball girl and the feds to check things out.lmao.thanks any way. pooljunkie73 <hr /></blockquote>

Sure I can check things out for ya but after I tell you what I find, I'd have to torture you. Slowly.

bluewolf
05-06-2003, 06:05 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Michelle:</font><hr> Well, more like running 5 balls in one shot.
When you have an average looking table (maybe only 1 or 2 balls hooked), if you can run an average of 5 balls in one shot, then you are probably about a S/L 5.

<hr /></blockquote>

Our sl5 consistently runs five but then does not runout. If he is playing an equal skill player, he often gets beat this way, although he does win a lot of matches. Superb at banks.

Our 4s rarely run 4 balls at a time. it is more like 3, and usually 2. Our 3 runs 2 balls on a consistent basis. Ocassionally runs 3, but no where near 50%.

I only run 3 balls if I have an open rack and a fairly easy run. Usually just pick them off 1-2 at a time and hide. Unless I am playing a worse player, then I forget the safety stuff and just knock em in as a good shot comes up.

The only ones who are real good on long shots are the 5 and the 7.

So I was asking most about people less than sl5 like 4s, once you mentioned about 5s running five balls.

I think in apa ranking, a person can be ranked either higher or lower than their true playing, but that eventually, it evens out and they get the sl that is equal to their ability. To me, that is why it is called the 'equlizer' system. It is complex enough that the sandbaggers get put where they are supposed to be.

I have seen players go up and down a bit, but it seems like they eventually end up where they are supposed to be.The fact that they drop oldes matches, only counting the last 20 is good.

For instance, I now how 20.Next time I play, my oldest one gets dropped. I like this and it also , imo, keeps good players from having a low handicap rating.

Laura

pooljunkie73
05-06-2003, 06:06 AM
cool /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

bluewolf
05-07-2003, 04:53 AM
Innings and safes appear to not count with twos.It plainly states that any two with a winning % will go up to a three.

I lost a bunch of my earlier matches which made me have a crappy w/l. It does not matter if I shoot 70% in my last ten matches. Unless somebody complains, I will be a two until enough old matches are dropped off to make me over 50% w/L. It does not matter if I play extremely well. It is the w/l over the last 20 matches that will count. That means if I win the next four matches, I will be a two until then. If I lose some of them, I will be a 2 for a little longer.

This is where the system is flawed. There are two of us two that can beat some of the threes already(think she may be sandbagging a bit). But yet, we are allowed to stay a 2 and have a spot. Fine. By the time we get to be threes, we will be beating all of the 3s already.

LOL

Laura

btw,Once a person is a three they also look at their best games, i/2 of the total if it is less than 20 matches. They very obviously do not do this with twos or the two of us would be three already.