Double banking kicks, width of table

[phil in sofla]

I've been working on the lines for this, off of some info I picked up somewhere.

START(
%A\6I7%DT1K0%E_3J9%Hd2H5%Pr1Z1%Qh1@7%Rc1@7%Ui8D4%V q8Y6%W]1K9
%X`2[2%Ya1Z4%Zi0C7%eA9`7
)END

The corner to side pocket line, two rails (or equivalently, side pocket to corner) seems to work perfectly for me if I use a medium hit, strong running English (high left in this case), and aim about 1/4 diamond short of the midpoint line (A, in the diagram).

The diagrammed situation came up last Friday, and I didn't see a direct kick line widthwise or lengthwise, since balls were in the way. The running English lengthens the line off the first rail, but converts to reverse or hold up English off the second rail, straightening out and shortening the angle of the 3rd leg of the kick. I figured the ball was directly in line of that kick to the side, and it was, making the ball and prompting the gratifying 'did you see THAT!?!?!' from my opponent.

To go two rails to the diagonal corner isn't as accurate for me now. It's close, and maybe just a function of speed of hit. I'm aiming to 'B' in the diagram, which is about 60% of the way from diamond 11 to diamond 12. In other words, I'm coming a diamond plus a little more than a 1/4 diamond from the midpoint line. This is CLOSE to correct for my stroke, English and shaft. I'm always in the ballpark of hitting a ball in the jaws there in practice, but I don't consistently make the ball in practice.

Couple of questions. If you shoot this kick, do you use the same running English I've had recommended to me, lengthening the first angle, and shortening the second, or something else? Where are your rail targets on the first rail? And do you know of any GENERAL rule for picking a first rail target for an arbitrary distance for two rail kicks, other than these two special case situations?

It almost seems that hitting about 1/3 of the distance between them with no English, or slight running English just to get the ball to be sure to come off the rail on a good line, would do it, with the second rail getting hit at about 2/3rds the distance between them, and the last leg going to 3/3rds (the entire distance), but I do NOT think that works. Any rule of thumb there?

[phil in sofla]

Checking the rsb table code I pasted in, lost my A and B labels for unknown reasons. A should have been 1/4 diamond right of the midpoint diamond on that half of the table. B should have been slightly more than half way from the midpoint diamond to the 3rd diamond. Sorry for bad rsb table work there, not experienced with it.

[DSAPOLIS]

Phil
I'm not sure that the cue ball would react as diagramed with that english. The main thing that I use when judging kicks is cue ball speed. I very rarely (unless I have to) use any spin whatsoever. At lag-medium speed, (no matter if you use the X system or diamond systems) your accuracy is reflected by the control you have over your stroke.

For what its worth, the situation you diagrammed is not really a situation that I would kick, mainly because I can hit all of the balls without kicking. A small nudge on the left side of the 4 would hide your opponent from the 8, and it is easier than the two rail kick. This shot would also put all three of your balls in front of the side pocket, and I am assuming you are playing 8 ball.



If we were to kick in this situation, the pattern for a two rail bank would look more like this:

START(
%A\6I7%DT1K0%E_3J9%Hd2H5%Pr1Z1%Uk7E2%Vq8Y6%W]3L6%Xa5Z2%Yc4Y8
%Zj3D1%eB4a3
)END

Notice I made space for the cue ball width and removed the english. Remember that english will reverse itself with each non-connecting rail. Experiment with that until you understand how the cue ball will react (right english on rail 1 will be killed (or reversed)on rail 2). That's not a hard concept, but under a pressure situation it could confuse you and run you down the road towards an error in judgment. Hope this helps.

[dddd]

i play banks often enough and the older fellow i play mostly
will go two times more often than one would think, with fifteen balls on the table the routes are tangled.
anyway he makes alot of them and we talked once about that very subject, using english to make the balls. he said and if his shooting is proof, bank without alot of spin and hit it easy, the shot is hard enough without adding more changes. just figure the shot and shoot it easy.

[phil in sofla]

Thanks for your reply. My diagram wasn't accurate, as it was 9 ball, and there wasn't any one rail route to that ball I had to hit (and the diagram looks like there is).

Would you mind showing the two rail line you'd use to double bank to the far corner? I'm trying to see what the reference line is. Looks like you're shooting the double bank to the side at about 1.5 diamonds, coming into the 3rd diamond (as we'd expect), and then it only goes back one diamond to 4 (the side pocket) because of the reversing effect of the induced English from the hit on the first rail? Is that about right?