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View Full Version : The shot I cannot make



bluewolf
05-07-2003, 01:10 PM
I need to make this shot. I have tried it over and over and had people watch that I hit it right, but it deflects and hits the far tit instead of going in the pocket. I think it might require a bit of ie to spin it towards the rail, but not sure if ie or oe would be best. The ob is very close to the rail, maybe 1/4 in out.

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My drawing is not exactly right because cb goes in a straight line and edge to edge as thin a cut as is possible to the ob. I have hit in these when the ob is frozen to the rail, but am totally stumped on this one. I even had a very good player try it, and he could not do it either.

Laura

Kato
05-07-2003, 01:19 PM
Laura, I think you can't trust your eyes on this shot. I don't hit where I think I should hit, I hit even further out on the ball and low and behold in the last few months I've started making this shot quite regularly. I have a hard time explaining it.

Kato

Steve Lipsky
05-07-2003, 01:31 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr> I even had a very good player try it, and he could not do it either.

Laura <hr /></blockquote>

Laura, are you sure you're setting up the shot so it is possible? If a very good player can't make it, you might have set it up to be too difficult.

And, more importantly, if a very good player can't make it, why are you under the impression that this is a shot you need to make? Keep in mind that I am not basing this comment on your SL; if I were setting up a shot that a good player couldn't make, I would feel like it's a shot that's too difficult to ever try in serious competition.

- Steve

Sid_Vicious
05-07-2003, 01:34 PM
You have to extent the long rail away from the OB by imagination, like the OB is sitting more in the middle of the table and not on or toward the rail, then stroke freely like it was any other 70-90 degree cut. You're pulling your stroke most likely.

My personal view for what it is worth...sid

bluewolf
05-07-2003, 01:40 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Steve Lipsky:</font><hr>

Laura, are you sure you're setting up the shot so it is possible? If a very good player can't make it, you might have set it up to be too difficult.

And, more importantly, if a very good player can't make it, why are you under the impression that this is a shot you need to make? Keep in mind that I am not basing this comment on your SL; if I were setting up a shot that a good player couldn't make, I would feel like it's a shot that's too difficult to ever try in serious competition.

- Steve <hr /></blockquote>

I want to know if it is possible. If it is, then I want to make it. I do not care if it ever comes up in a game. It bugged me when I could not make it. So that is why. It is like a puzzle that is so hard and you try so many ways, then give up for a time. But then you come back to it later because it is bugging the sh*t out of you.

My logic is that if I can hit the exact one with the cb frozen to the rail, then why do I miss this one, no matter how many times I try.

All the shots on the table are like puzzles that I want to solve. Sometimes it isnt about rank, or matches or anything except solving the puzzles.

Laura

bluewolf
05-07-2003, 01:45 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Kato:</font><hr> Laura, I think you can't trust your eyes on this shot. I don't hit where I think I should hit, I hit even further out on the ball and low and behold in the last few months I've started making this shot quite regularly. I have a hard time explaining it.

Kato <hr /></blockquote>

I am happy to hear that it is possible. Are you using any english to make it?

Laura

Fred Agnir
05-07-2003, 01:47 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr>
My logic is that if I can hit the exact one with the cb frozen to the rail, then why do I miss this one, no matter how many times I try.<hr /></blockquote>Most shots frozen on the cushion, you can shoot as if the cushion isn't there. That's an oft repeated, but mostly misunderstood concept, but I digress.

Some frozen cushion shots are best shot in a way that must use the cushion. This shot looks like one of them. Therefore, there's no equal way to hit it when it's not frozen to the cushion, IMO.

It's supposed to be nearly a 90 cut, right?

Fred

bluewolf
05-07-2003, 01:48 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sid_Vicious:</font><hr> You have to extent the long rail away from the OB by imagination, like the OB is sitting more in the middle of the table and not on or toward the rail, then stroke freely like it was any other 70-90 degree cut. You're pulling your stroke most likely.

My personal view for what it is worth...sid <hr /></blockquote>

You mean I might be doing a poke stroke instead of following through?

Laura

Kato
05-07-2003, 01:57 PM
If it's on the rail then I'm hitting it like the rail isn't there, that's the shot I've been hitting lately. If it's off then I'm spinning it in with a lot of right hand spin (inside in this case). Again, not trusting my eyes and not hitting where I think I should but way out there for me.

Kato

DSAPOLIS
05-07-2003, 01:59 PM
Laura

Check your e-mail (AOL). Sent you some diagrams. Get back with me if you have any questions.

Sid_Vicious
05-07-2003, 02:38 PM
BW...The long rail being close intimidates the natural stroke and follow through. If you will vizualize the LR being 4 feet back and stroke it through like any normal thin cut, you'll get that to slice in for you. If it seems difficult to mentally move that rail back in your mind, try putting the OB out in the center of the table and setting up the same angle shot into the side pocket. Betcha see it easier that way, but the key is to not let the LR get into your head and into the usual flow of the cue's tip.

No I wouldn't categorize it by saying, poking and not stroking. it's a funny variation of imperfection created when the OB is close to the LR like that. Jm2c...sid

stickman
05-07-2003, 02:39 PM
Laura, It is a difficult shot. I use inside english when I shoot this shot. The same shot with the OB froze on the rail can be made a little past 90 degrees with inside and hitting the rail barely before the ball. The cueball actually rebounds off the rail, hitting the OB on the way back out. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

snipershot
05-07-2003, 03:17 PM
Laura, this shot comes to me as one of those shots that is harder than it first looks, you know one of those shots lot's of players take for granted and end up missing. Anyways, I have been practicing alot of extreme cut shots recently and was shooting one similar to this earlier today where the OB is close to a pocket just off the rail much like in your diagram. The way I shoot it is to thin clip the OB just barely hitting the outer edge with some top right english, after some determination I started to consistently make the shot. It is very difficult (and annoying /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif) but my persistence payed off.

Sniper

05-07-2003, 03:35 PM
Laura,
I might tend to agree with several opinions about this shot. Somtimes your eyes decieve you a bit and the point of contact might not be exactly where you think it would be. Also, speed has everything to do with a shot going and not going. The tightness of the pockets may also be a factor. The shot may not go on one table, but step over to another table and "BANG" it goes. I would love to see this shot set up and give a try just to see what has to be done to make it.

Rod
05-07-2003, 03:37 PM
Well I'll add my 2 bits, everyone else has. LOL The shot isn't hard to make with the right speed and IE. Problem is 8 out of ten it will scratch in the opposite corner. Not very good odds if you ask me. Cut the ball in with speed, no scratch but a tough shot. It can be made with OE but a tough shot once again.

If you really have to make this shot, just for your own well being. LOL It takes complete focus, good stroke, and zero body motion other than your shooting arm.

Rod

bluewolf
05-07-2003, 04:43 PM
Thanks for everyone's help. it has really been bugging me. I thought as several mentioned that IE needed to be used and some speed. Someone also mentioned about the different sizes of pockets. Ours are 4 and 1/4, which I have been told is a little small.

Thanks again.

Laura

bluewolf
05-07-2003, 04:46 PM
Not frozen. A little like 1/4 inch off the rail. Nearly a 90 degree cut.

I have gotten in the frozen 90degree cut ocassionally, but this one just had me baffled.

Laura

05-07-2003, 06:39 PM
laura, i think this is is very makeable when am on cut shots i use the ghost ball technique and i'll only shoot that shot with dead center, unless i have another ball sitting on the rail that i may want to get dead right for then i would use inside english, other than that the shot can be made with dead center ball all day long.

just remeber you have to skin the ball.
enjoy practicing.

Sid_Vicious
05-07-2003, 07:41 PM
BW...I'm not pushing my advice, but I wanted to tell you that I put my own advise to use tonight on the close rail cuts, even those with far less angle, and I'm pleased with the stroke I'm finding. Moving that close rail back, for me, helps. I forgot how trying to work another players fundamentals like this reinforces some of my own. Thanks for the refresh...sid

bluewolf
05-08-2003, 04:14 AM
Thanks sid. The reason I bring these shots to the board is because there is so much knowlge here. My goal in pool is a little different than others. It is not to be a certain sl, or to be a pro or anything other than simply to be able to make all the shots. So each one is a puzzle to be solved.

Last one i brought here was two cuts. The one I was 50% on, I am now 80% on. The one I was 25% on am now 50% on.

So see, bringing something here, getting suggestions, then taking it to the table, so it is very helpful all of the suggestions.

I am not too much of a drill person. Other than a few things like the lag, I drill a little but mostly work on shots I am having difficulty with and weave in the easy ones in my practice, so I will not be missing those, too.

Laura