PDA

View Full Version : How About Allison for BCA Hall of Fame?



Chris in NC
05-08-2003, 07:16 AM
I hadn't posted in a while and recently saw and heard about the new BCA HOF inductees. Congrats to both of them. Just curious about what some other posters here think about whether it is time yet for Allison Fisher to be considered / nominated for the BCA Hall of Fame. Considering that Jean's induction in to the HOF came at an age much younger than Allison's current age, obviously I think that it is time.

As of this past year Allison now meets and exceeds all BCA HOF qualifications for a player. The only requirement she'd been waiting on is the 20+ years of tournament experience at the national / world class level which she has now met - having competed in her first snooker world championship at the age of 15.

Yeah, I know she's only 35 and still in the prime of her career, but considering her 11 world championship titles in snooker alone should make her a strong candidate for the HOF. Add to that her four 9-ball world championship titles, her 5 WPBA Nationals titles and perhaps most impressively that in her brief 7 year pro 9-ball career she has already surpassed Jean Balukus's record for total WPBA tournament titles won (nearly 40). I strongly feel Allison now deserves at least a nomination for the HOF.

Remember that Loree Jon Jones who was inducted in to the HOF last year, is only a few years Allison's senior. I also think there's a good chance that Jeanette and Ewa will eventually make it to the HOF as well - more for what they've both done for the popularity and image of women's professional pool than for the tournament titles they've earned.

IMO and considering Allison's dominant record over the past 20 years in both snooker, 9-ball and 14.1 (she easily won the only U.S. Open 14.1 tourney she ever played in defeating Loree Jon in the 2000 finals), isn't it time Allison should be considered?

Ralph S.
05-08-2003, 07:21 AM
Hi Chris. Good to see you posting again. IMO there is no doubt that Allison will get her due and election to the hall.

Tom_In_Cincy
05-08-2003, 07:22 AM
Chris,

Good to see you posting again.
As always, your post is 'right on'

Ms Fischer deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. It would only make the BCA look bad if they didn't consider Allison soon.

Kato
05-08-2003, 07:28 AM
I can't argue your logic Chris. If she meets all the requirements then she should get in. Allison is a magnificent champion.

Kato~~~~not quite a champion and a touch shy of magnificent

Popcorn
05-08-2003, 07:42 AM
Not even close, I don't think they should be putting in people that have more then half of their possible career in front of them. I think the hall of fame is a VERY special thing. There are so many possible deserving players from the past, I don't even want to begin to list them. These younger players should not even be considered yet. Just my opinion

Fred Agnir
05-08-2003, 07:44 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris in NC:</font><hr> As of this past year Allison now meets and exceeds all BCA HOF qualifications for a player. The only requirement she'd been waiting on is the 20+ years of tournament experience at the national / world class level which she has now met - having competed in her first snooker world championship at the age of 15.<hr /></blockquote>Just to play devil's advocate as I have no doubt Allison will be in, and it's just a matter of time.

In years past, there seemed to be an unwritten restriction about inducting HOF members by using their American performances for consideration. That seemed consistent up until Ray Ceulemans' induction. So, that being said, it's an extremely new idea to consider outside-of-America performance as a criterion. If Allison were to be inducted considering her past snooker achievements, then a good argument would be made to include Steve Davis, Joe Davis, Stephen Hendry and Walter Lindrum prior to Allison. But, that ain't happening today.

Her dominance in pool is worthy of recognition. I'd say that she needs to have just a few more years of pool.

On a side note, just like other sports, pool &amp; billiards might need a separate Hall of Fame for the women. That way, we can recognize players like:

Robin Bell
Belinda Beardon
Ewa Mataya
Masako Katsura

who may never get into the current BCA HOF, but deserve to.

Fred &lt;~~~ thinks Roger Maris should be in

Rich R.
05-08-2003, 07:56 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris in NC:</font><hr> isn't it time Allison should be considered? <hr /></blockquote>
Chris, I'm sure it is only a matter of time, before Allison is in the HOF. But at her young age and so many playing years ahead, what is the rush?

eg8r
05-08-2003, 08:00 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Fred &lt;~~~ thinks Roger Maris should be in <hr /></blockquote> I did not know Roger Maris was a pro pool player also. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

eg8r &lt;~~~Joking

eg8r
05-08-2003, 08:04 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Ms Fischer deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. It would only make the BCA look bad if they didn't consider Allison soon. <hr /></blockquote> Does it really make the BCA "look" bad? And in whose eyes?

I certainly do not see any reason for Allison to be in the HOF right now. She definitely meets all the criteria and I think she is definitely going to be in the HOF, I just don't understand why the need to be there today. The HOF to me is to be representative of a persons achievement throughout their entire career. Allison is surely no where near the end of her career unless she decides to retire soon.

Why not sit back and just enjoy watching her play, and when she calls it quits then rush to induct her.

eg8r

L.S. Dennis
05-08-2003, 08:04 AM
No question she'll get in, let's just inducting these people until they reach age 50 though. Too many people people have been getting in too early in my opinion (sorry Lori Jon and Mike Sigel!)

Fred Agnir
05-08-2003, 08:25 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote L.S. Dennis:</font><hr> No question she'll get in, let's just inducting these people until they reach age 50 though. Too many people people have been getting in too early in my opinion (sorry Lori Jon and Mike Sigel!) <hr /></blockquote>I think most of the other sports consider their athletes eligible for consideration after they retire. OTOH, the LPGA, has specific criteria to be met as far as playing is concerned. It looks like Pool &amp; Billiards is doing neither of these.

Fred

Tom_In_Cincy
05-08-2003, 09:16 AM
And why wait until the end of their career?
Efren isn't finished? Nick Varner isn't finished and Jim Rempe is still playing strong. All HOFers.

Why wait? She meets all the requirements NOW?

Too bad the BCA is the only ORG that has a Pool Hall of fame. Or the only one that is currently recognized.

pooltchr
05-08-2003, 09:16 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote L.S. Dennis:</font><hr> No question she'll get in, let's just inducting these people until they reach age 50 though. Too many people people have been getting in too early in my opinion (sorry Lori Jon and Mike Sigel!) <hr /></blockquote>I think most of the other sports consider their athletes eligible for consideration after they retire. OTOH, the LPGA, has specific criteria to be met as far as playing is concerned. It looks like Pool &amp; Billiards is doing neither of these.

Fred <hr /></blockquote>
I agree most other sports wait until after someone retires, but then, most sports don't see players still active for the length of time pool players can remain competitive. She should absolutely be there, but I tend to agree that waiting a few more years is probably appropriate.

Chris - looking forward to getting back up your way in Sept.
Steve

Fran Crimi
05-08-2003, 09:31 AM
I agree. Age should be a factor, but also we have to remember that the BCA is an American organization and I think one of the things they probably consider is how many years the player has played pool in this country. Otherwise, why hasn't someone like Steve Davis been inducted? IMO, he's one of the greatest in the world, but he never set foot on American soil to compete.

Reyes competed over 25 years in the U.S., So did Loree Jon and Rempe and Sigel, and Mizerak and Hall and Varner, and the many others who are waiting in line to be inducted.

Fran

eg8r
05-08-2003, 10:14 AM
[ QUOTE ]
And why wait until the end of their career?
Efren isn't finished? Nick Varner isn't finished and Jim Rempe is still playing strong. All HOFers.

Why wait? She meets all the requirements NOW?
<hr /></blockquote> Do you think that Allison is at the same stage in her career as the previous ones you have mentioned? If I remember Chris' first post, Allison has been playing competitive pool for only 20 years. She has just met the requirements and you are hell bent on her getting invited right away. The ones you listed are far past the 20 year mark.

I am not saying she should not be in, and I am not saying she should not get it now. The only thing I am saying is that why does it have to be now? Why not wait till she has 20 years of competitive pool here on American soil, or until she retires.

I guess this is an argument that is close to pointless because no matter what our outcome is, it is still up to the BCA. I also find it silly to argue a point in which the person at hand is not even complaining about it. Allison has not made this statement publicly, just a member on a board. LOL

eg8r

Tom_In_Cincy
05-08-2003, 11:57 AM
I post a reply and it gets a "hell bent" from you? Geeze.. its just my opinion..

If she already meets the requirements.. like you stated, my question remains... why not NOW.

L.S. Dennis
05-08-2003, 01:12 PM
I still like the 50 year old cut off point. I think it's a good compromise that allows for players still competing and getting recognized at the same time.
Just my thoughts on this,
Dennis

cycopath
05-08-2003, 01:20 PM
I wonder how Allison feels about it? Some people might view an induction as the beginning of the end of one's career. Maybe she doesn't want to be inducted just yet.

Popcorn
05-08-2003, 01:27 PM
The why not now, is easy, it means to pass over other deserving players who for some reason have yet to be considered. Get in line Allison and wait your turn like others have been. There are deserving players who many here would not even recognize their names.

Rod
05-08-2003, 01:49 PM
Chris,
I certanly see nothing wrong with a nomination. It would be however passing up a number of other great players or persons that have contributed to the game. She will get there in due time, no doubt.

Rod

Cueless Joey
05-08-2003, 03:13 PM
Maybe too early since the BCA Hall of Fame is about billiards. Or is it? Ally's days at the snooker table might not count.
Jeanette Lee for HOF? Good riddance.
Corr has won more tourneys than she has I think.

eg8r
05-08-2003, 06:04 PM
I said hell bent because of the way I perceive your expressions. Since you capitalized the word "now", I perceived you as anxious or demanding, in turn you are hell bent. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

You question is easily answered with another...Why now?

Answer my question...Why not wait until a closer time to the end of her career? Why not wait until she has 20 years experience on American soil?

I think it is entertaining to see the activity here that Chris started. To the best of my knowledge Allison has not publicly requested nomination to the hall. All that has happened is, a fan of hers (Chris) noticed that she is eligible.

"Eligible" appears to be the word some people might be forgetting. By meeting the requirements does not automatically give you entry into the HOF. All Allison has done is become ELIGIBLE. One is not eligible until they meet the requirements, no more no less. After that, then the rest of their career and accomplishments will help get her in.

eg8r

dg-in-centralpa
05-08-2003, 06:58 PM
I think Allison, Ewa, and Jeanette should be considered when the time comes. Who in recent years, more than these three, have changed the face of women's pool. Allison for being so dominant and forcing the others to play to her standards, Jeanette for her tireless promotion of herself and the sport, and Ewa, not only for her color commentary, but also being one of the first recognizable faces. If Allison is nominated and wins I will be the first to congratulate her, if not, her time will come. My best to all the women of the WPBA, even though some will never make it to the HOF, but they try just as hard as the next person to make it in this sport.

DG - who also thinks Roger Maris should be in the HOF, without the asterisk behind his name.

cueball1950
05-08-2003, 09:39 PM
I may be wrong here. But i remember reading somewhere that the BCA actually does not have a real hall or some sort of building to display anything in. Is it just a paper hall of fame? Or do they actually have a real building for displaying items. If so does anyone know where it is Located. Would love to visit it for sure. i know there is a New England Hall of Fame. It does not recognize just one sport. Mike Zuglan has already been inducted into it...But back to the original question. does Ms Fisher belong into the Hall of Fame? In My opinion. Yes she does. But i also think it should be a couple of years off...Just my thoughts.....................Mike

Tom_In_Cincy
05-09-2003, 10:40 AM
Why NOW? Because she deserves it. She has met all of the qualifications. And has done it quicker than anyone could possibly comprehend.

With the exception of the new 40 years of age and the 20 years of playing (on US soil, your opinion), neither of witch has much to do with the World Titles she has in 14.1, 9 ball and Snooker. When was last time there was a World Snooker title available in the USA?

No other women player comes even close to what Allison has done in the last 20 years.. and Allison is only in her mid 30s

This is one very exceptional lady.. and IMO deserves special HOF induction.

#### leonard
05-09-2003, 01:04 PM
Fred what game did Roger excel in nineball/straight pool/3 cushion. It escapes me.####

eg8r
05-09-2003, 01:23 PM
[ QUOTE ]
No other women player comes even close to what Allison has done in the last 20 years.. and Allison is only in her mid 30s

This is one very exceptional lady.. and IMO deserves special HOF induction. <hr /></blockquote> I agree with most everything you said. She should be inducted, but why now? Why a "special" induction. There are greats in the game that are in the HOF that have done much more than she has. I honestly think she is the best female player so far. There still is no reason to rush into something when all she has done is become eligible.

She will be in the HOF and she deserves it. No doubt. I just don't see the rush in doing it so soon. You have given no reason for the rush, except that she has met the qualifications. What else do you have? I am betting here is where you run out of steam. Why not give her some time to continue and get better.

I also find it interesting that Chris has not come on to say anything else. Chris, do you have any other reasons as to why you think she should be inducted so soon? I guess any other reasons besides the fact that she has met the requirements.

Allison will get into the HOF no doubt, she has done everything she needs to do. She is the greatest female player on the planet. Now just like all the others in the HOF, she will have to wait her turn. By no means is she any better than those that have went before her, and how many of those were inducted immeadiately after they fulfilled the requirements?

eg8r

Tom_In_Cincy
05-09-2003, 02:05 PM
Waiting just puts her into the same category of the rest of the HOFers.

she accomplished her requirements quicker than any of the rest of the HOFers. This is very special.

Do you know who Jean Balukas is? she was inducted because of her quick impact on the women's and men's game of pool and wasn't 40 years old when she was inducted.

Allison has done it quicker than Jean, and with a much greater impact to pool (and more positive)

Allison is a special example of one of the greatest impacts to this game that I can recall. There are more women and men playing pool from her exposure on ESPN and winning and winning over and over again, this has to be recognized as just more than the world titles and 20 years of playing.

The only bad side to her being inducted to the HOF before age 40, is if she is envolved in a scandle and ruins her reputation.

No loss of steam here.. lots of ammo left

Deeman
05-09-2003, 02:12 PM
I don't like the fact that the HOF has let people in so early in their lives. Most HOF's wait until after a player's career, some as much as ten years, to give time for people to judge someone in a more historical perspective. However, since they have already done this with others, Allison surely deserves it as well.

Popcorn
05-09-2003, 05:05 PM
Do you know who votes for the nominees and for the final choices? Is it just a little committee, or can the public campaign for a choice.

Tom_In_Cincy
05-09-2003, 05:26 PM
Its all a big secret held by the BCA.... I don't think its ever been published..

Fran Crimi
05-09-2003, 06:00 PM
You're right, I don't think it's been published, Tom, but you can find out how it's done by calling the BCA and asking.

Yes, anyone can get involved in submitting a player for consideration. Here's how it works. There is a HOF Committee of about 6 people who review all submissions and then picks the nominees for that year. Once they pick the nominees, they then summarize the info on them and create ballots that are sent to the BCA voting members. Once a person has been nominated, it usually takes from 2 to 5 years for them to get voted in.

Anyone can put a package together and submit it to the HOF Committee members for consideration. Ray Schuler and I did it for Robert Byrne and sports writer Mike Geffner did it for Cisero Murphy.

Fran

Tom_In_Cincy
05-09-2003, 06:10 PM
JEAN BALUKAS is the second woman inducted into the BCA Hall of Fame. She was born in Brooklyn, New York, and is the Hall's youngest member. An excellent all-around athlete, Jean competed in her first BCA U.S. Open when she was nine years old, finishing seventh. She won her first BCA crown when she was 12. Since then Jean has collected seven BCA U.S. Open 14.1 titles, six World Open titles and countless 9-ball and straight pool crowns. She has been named Player of the Year five times. [ QUOTE ]
Jean Balukas
Born 1959 - Present
Inducted 1985 <hr /></blockquote>

Allison is also under 40

eg8r
05-09-2003, 06:46 PM
Did Jean retire before then or soon there after? Since you are drawing the comparison, is Allison looking to retire now?

eg8r

eg8r
05-09-2003, 06:56 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Do you know who Jean Balukas is? <hr /></blockquote> Nope. Only you sir know who she is.
[ QUOTE ]
There are more women and men playing pool from her exposure on ESPN and winning and winning over and over again, <hr /></blockquote> Since this quote is nothing you can accurately calculate by any means, I would not consider it. You have no baseline to judge against, and no one has done any sort of surveys to see if more women are playing the game because they saw Allison playing. I would venture to guess Jeanette would be more of a case to make. These are some of the reasons not to jump ahead of the gun and nominate her so soon.
[ QUOTE ]
No loss of steam here.. lots of ammo left <hr /></blockquote> Show me some of it. The correlation of increased number of women playing the game, and Allison winning cannot be calculated. Like I said, you have no baseline as where to start.

She will make it to the HOF, I just hope she does not get as impatient.

eg8r

Tom_In_Cincy
05-09-2003, 08:35 PM
Jean Balukas quit playing in the women's tournaments because she decided not to pay a fine imposed on her for remarks she made in a finals match with Loree Jon Jones. Ms Jones was about 18 or 19 years old at the time.

Jean could have played 10 or more years easily.

Tom_In_Cincy
05-09-2003, 08:50 PM
eg8r,
Since we agree about her qualifications and that she will get into the HOF, this is a good place to stop these posts.

Its just a matter of time. I hope its sooner than later.

I could extend this post with data that you wanted, its been published in the Pool magazines on a yearly basis.
Correlating the increase to Allison and the WPBA would be just an opinion, and you are intelligent enough to figure that out.

Chris in NC
05-10-2003, 02:59 PM
Eg8r, in answer to you question as to why I have yet to respond, this is my first opportunity to get back on-line since I placed the post a few days ago. I'm glad to see it has stirred some interest and responses, just as I figured it would.

It appears quite clear that no one here seems to question Allison's titles and qualifications for future HOF consideration, but only as to whether she is deserving enough to be inducted in the near future.

IMO, the BCA set that precedent (of neglecting a player's age) by electing Jean Balukus in to the HOF at the age of 27, and then again last year by inducting Loree Jon Jones - still in her 30's. I don't even think Jean had retired at that point of her career, but even if she had how would the BCA have known back then she wouldn't choose to make a comeback?

As for Allison's feelings on this matter, yes she would love to eventually be considered for nomination and election in to the HOF, but is in no hurry at all. She was/is very happy upon hearing of Efren's recent induction. My decision to start this thread by asking the question was mine, as I was just looking for feedback / opinions from others here. I can certainly respect those that feel Allison (still in the prime of her career) needs to wait her turn before HOF consideration. Thanks to all for your responses.

Regarding another player I feel is more than deserving, how about Alan Hopkins? When I see that all his contemporaries such as Varner, Hall and Rempe are already in the HOF, I find it strange that Alan is not - considering his tournament record and possibly even more importantly his standing among knowledgeable pool experts is at the very least as good if not superior to any or all of those other 3 HOF members. Add to that what he's done with the Valley Forge Expo the past 10 years and it's simply amazing to me Alan is yet to be elected in to the HOF. - Chris in NC

eg8r
05-10-2003, 05:04 PM
Right you are. My vote for Alan also. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

Nick B
05-10-2003, 05:22 PM
What are we talking about...put her in.

No questions asked.

Now if somebody else has been slighted...well that's a
different issue.

Nick

eg8r
05-10-2003, 10:28 PM
[ QUOTE ]
What are we talking about...put her in.

No questions asked.<hr /></blockquote> Well there is reason enough. Don't ask any more questions. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

jjinfla
05-11-2003, 07:22 AM
It's all politics. But hell yes she should be elected to the HOF. In fact I would like to see both her and Earl Strickland elected next year. I am sure Cuetec would like that too. Jake

HarryDC
05-11-2003, 08:23 AM
Hi Chris,

Allison only has 7 World Ladies Snooker Championships.

Note this web site for reference:

http://www.globalsnookercentre.co.uk/files/Ladies/ladieshome.htm

Miss Janie Watkins of Wales maintains this site on ladies snooker and has won many frames from Allison. LOL You understand I am biased.

The Ladies I love have each been World Ladies Snooker Champion 5 times. Karen Corr and Kelly
Fisher. Also Kimmy Shaw knocked Allison out of the last Ladies Snooker Tournament Allison played before coming to the United States. Oh, one more reason Allison shouldn't be considered as yet for the BCA Hall of Fame is Jean Balukus won 72 Tournaments 36 WPBA and 36 tournaments before the WPBA was conceived. Sorry Chris I don't agree with you. Allison
needs at least 72 tournaments in my mind.

HarryDC /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Chris in NC
05-11-2003, 10:06 AM
If you include her doubles championships, she has 11 world snooker championships (7 individual, 4 doubles) in addition to her 4 9-ball world titles. And how about the big money tourneys? Well she's absolutely dominated in those. She's won the Amway Cup (25K first place) 4 out of 5 years, the Challenge of Champions (25K first place) 3 out of 4 years, and the ESPN Ultimate 9-ball Challenge (40K - 65K) 3 out of 4 years. Not too shabby. - Chris in NC

Drake
05-11-2003, 10:59 AM
There is no doubt that Allison will be in the Hall of Fame. BUT, I believe a player should not be elgible to enter the hall of fame until the peak of their career has passed. Allison has many more great years left AND many more records to break.

Popcorn
05-11-2003, 12:10 PM
Chris, your are talking into a dead phone here. If you are serious, and I am sure you are, you need to get the ball rolling yourself. From what someone else has said, one person can get the process going. It doesn't matter if you can convince us or not, you need to be talking to the BCA voting members. I would get going on this, if I felt Like you as soon as posable. After reading this thread, I have a few names I would like to push and plan on looking into exactly how to go about it.

dg-in-centralpa
05-11-2003, 01:05 PM
I agree on a vote for Allen Hopkins. No one person other than the Berman's have done more to promote pool than Allen. My hat's off to Allen.

HarryDC
05-11-2003, 02:28 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris in NC:</font><hr> If you include her doubles championships, she has 11 world snooker championships (7 individual, 4 doubles) in addition to her 4 9-ball world titles. And how about the big money tourneys? Well she's absolutely dominated in those. She's won the Amway Cup (25K first place) 4 out of 5 years, the Challenge of Champions (25K first place) 3 out of 4 years, and the ESPN Ultimate 9-ball Challenge (40K - 65K) 3 out of 4 years. Not too shabby. - Chris in NC <hr /></blockquote>

Sorry Chris,

Your wrong! Not Sanctioned! Only 7 singles. Allison Fisher should not be in the BCA Hall Of Fame any more, than for example the man you mentioned Mr. Allen Hopkins, the Arnold Palmer of pool, or Karen Mary Diane Corr the present BCA Women's Champion who plays consistantly on a men's tour and places in the top 10 when she plays.

I am a Karen Corr, Julie Kelly, Kimmy Shaw, Tiffany Nelson and Sarah Ellerby fan. So when the ladies I cheer for receive enough tenure I intend to propose there induction into the BCA Hall Fame, not in a billiard forum but petition to the board.

I guess I am not as easily impressed by Allison Fisher as you but let me say I have nothing but the utmost respect for her talent. I was looking at an old poll from BBC sports
dated 1993. The question was "What one word describes Allison Fisher's Snooker play?" 67,231 people responded. 39,786 responded boreing. LOL I guess that is why she doesn't go home? She has enough money to go home doesn't she? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif Again we agree to disagree. I still like ya. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

HarryDC

Fred Agnir
05-15-2003, 09:10 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr> Jean Balukas quit playing in the women's tournaments because she decided not to pay a fine imposed on her for remarks she made in a finals match with Loree Jon Jones. Ms Jones was about 18 or 19 years old at the time. <hr /></blockquote>I think the remarks were made in 1988, the ESPN-televised Brunswick World 9-ball Open, and aimed towards Robin (Bell) Dodson. Robin either broke in the 9-ball or combo'd a 9-ball (or both), and Jean muttered something about the luck factor, and Robin being lucky. Robin, visibly sharked, responded "I would never do that to you."

The fine was about $300. Jean told me (and anyone else who asked, I'm sure) that it wasn't about the fine, but the fine made for a great excuse to leave. She wasn't having fun playing anymore.

Fred