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pooltchr
05-08-2003, 11:26 AM
Last night, the weakest player in our PH showed up with a Balibushka. This guy, I'm sorry to say, is really bad. His theory on pool is if you hit a ball hard enough, it might find a pocket. Several players made comments to the effect that he shouldn't even be in the same room with that cue. It started me thinking. Should beginners play with the best equipment they can get, even if they don't realize what they have, or should they start with the less expensive (Players, Stealth, etc) and move up as they become more skilled players?
Steve

CrispyFish
05-08-2003, 11:29 AM
I was thinking the same of a player in my hall who recently got a Predator shaft. Then I realized it was JEALOUSY talking. If they can afford it, why not get it? Sure, they might not make the most of it, but why should I care?

05-08-2003, 11:30 AM
damn a balibushka sheesh...

some people just like to look good in bars/phs, they dont really know what they have or what they're using, it just looks nice to them. And besides when someone ask's him hey what kind of cue is that and he says oh a " Balibushka " they amazed because no one really shoots with them, but again, that just might cause him to get robbed. btw what's his rank on your league ?

pooltchr
05-08-2003, 11:33 AM
I don't think it's jealousy. I own a pro shop and can pretty much have my pick of what I want to shoot with. But in selling cues, I have always tried to steer beginners toward the cheaper cues and then giving them the chance to upgrade once they know what they do and do not like about any particular cue. Maybe this is the wrong approach. That is more the reason behind my question.
Steve

Cueless Joey
05-08-2003, 11:34 AM
I don't know of a good player playing with a crappy cue.
If a beginner got a decent cue from the get go, I think he's better off. If a good player can't play with a crappy cue, much less a beginner imo.

pooltchr
05-08-2003, 11:35 AM
He is a 2, but probably because they don't let male players go any lower.

houseman
05-08-2003, 11:39 AM
Is this a real Bushka or an Adams made Buska??????

05-08-2003, 11:42 AM
Steve,
It sounds as though this is a case of "more money than sense". If someone gave him the cue such as a relative, Then the relative needs a good physcological exam. People that go and spend a ton of money on equipment and just starting to play have this strange notion that people will think they are a "player". When in reality they see the person the play, they are thinking "why would this guy buy a cue like that when he is anything but a player. They probably think their friends who don't even play will think he can play because of the cue. What...do people really think a cue makes them play better?..Efren Reyes came to this country with a $15 cue and beat everyone in the country with it..ask him what he thinks about equipment and it making you a better player!

Fred Agnir
05-08-2003, 11:43 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> Last night, the weakest player in our PH showed up with a Balibushka. This guy, I'm sorry to say, is really bad. His theory on pool is if you hit a ball hard enough, it might find a pocket. Several players made comments to the effect that he shouldn't even be in the same room with that cue. It started me thinking. Should beginners play with the best equipment they can get, even if they don't realize what they have, or should they start with the less expensive (Players, Stealth, etc) and move up as they become more skilled players?
Steve <hr /></blockquote>At what point does someone have enough skill to move to a 'bushka? I mean, let's say I get one. Do I deserve to hold such greatness? I would hope so. It's my money. Right? It just looks funny, I suppose. That's okay.

Fred &lt;~~~ doesn't own a 'bushka

UWPoolGod
05-08-2003, 11:53 AM
More than likely one of the newer cheap models. There is no way the guy would be in there shooting with a price collectors item. I saw a guy shooting in this bar with a $2500 ornate Runde. It was his fathers who quit playing and gave it to him. He did not deserve it, but hey i would take a free Runde too.

Rich R.
05-08-2003, 11:54 AM
I would just like to clarify.
Are we talking about an original, collectable, $$$$$, Balibushka cue, or are we talking about one of the New Balibushka cues, which are not real expensive or collectable?

CrispyFish
05-08-2003, 11:55 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> I don't think it's jealousy. I own a pro shop and can pretty much have my pick of what I want to shoot with. But in selling cues, I have always tried to steer beginners toward the cheaper cues and then giving them the chance to upgrade once they know what they do and do not like about any particular cue. Maybe this is the wrong approach. That is more the reason behind my question.
Steve <hr /></blockquote>
I agree that it makes the most sense financially for MOST of us -- but if the guy has the money, why not start off with great equipment.

&lt;~~~ holding out for a lotto winning before buying his next cue

pooltchr
05-08-2003, 11:57 AM
Houseman,
It's one of the new ones, retail about $500

05-08-2003, 12:04 PM
lol

Rich R.
05-08-2003, 12:08 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> Houseman,
It's one of the new ones, retail about $500 <hr /></blockquote>
Sorry for repeating Houseman's question. I didn't see his post before I asked.

Since it is not an original, what is the big deal?
$500 is not an outrageous amount to pay for a cue these days.

dave
05-08-2003, 12:31 PM
Should good players be required to play with expensive equipment? Should they be required to upgrade as they improve so that the quality of the cue is a reflection of the player's skill level? If I'm a good player, can I use my Budweiser or Pamela Anderson cue? I'm just inverting the logic here.

Kato
05-08-2003, 12:36 PM
If I had the money I'd have the best. I'm ordering my first custom cue and would love to have Jack Justic make me a case. Unfortunately I can't afford it right now. Priorities first.

So let the guy play with the 'Bushka and more power to him.

Kato

bluewolf
05-08-2003, 01:34 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> Houseman,
It's one of the new ones, retail about $500 <hr /></blockquote>

It really do not think that $500 is much for a decent cue.

Laura

cycopath
05-08-2003, 01:42 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> Last night, the weakest player in our PH showed up with a Balibushka. This guy, I'm sorry to say, is really bad.<hr /></blockquote>Maybe he'll "grow into it". /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

CrispyFish
05-08-2003, 02:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cycopath:</font><hr>Maybe he'll "grow into it". /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif<hr /></blockquote>
I think that's a fair response. I didn't know how to play at all when I bought my Viking, but now I think it suits me just fine! /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Rod
05-08-2003, 02:18 PM
In most cases I'd say less expensive. Just look at all of the questions here on cue care. Granted some ask before or just after they bought a new cue. Some however have ruined more than one before they ask. Some may just have a lot of money and don't care. It's there money not mine.

Rod

snook
05-08-2003, 02:28 PM
hmm...when i was little i shot with a small kids stick on one of those 3 in one games, thats how i started. when we got a real table and i was old enough i bought a camel cue with pops camel dollars. then got another 30 stick that was just a little better. then i shot with dads mcdermott cue for a long time, he offered to give it to me, but i didnt want it for good. now i shoot with a meucci hi pro 2. it cost me two bills. big woop, its the best stick ive ever owned and i think i play my best with it although if i can ever get a freaking job i WILL have a power piston 4. because around here if you have a 2 grand stick, you aint gonna get a game from anybody. around here we dont care about sticks. its the game.

SpiderMan
05-08-2003, 02:33 PM
In general a beginner should start with an inexpensive (but solid) cue simply because they may change their preferences after gaining some experience.

BTW, a Balabushka is an inexpensive but solid cue, assuming you mean a Balabushka made in the past few years, so the player in question may be using "appropriate" equipment.

SpiderMan

JPB
05-08-2003, 02:34 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> Houseman,
It's one of the new ones, retail about $500 <hr /></blockquote>


The guy bought a pretty good quality cue for a reasonably cheap price. What's the problem? If you own a shop and people ask, tell them what you think. Otherwise, sell them what they want. It really is none of your business that this guy could afford $500. We should rejoice that bad players will spend some cash. How many posts have there been wishing professional pool could be more like professional golf? Guess why there is professional golf? Because bad players will spend thousands and thousands of dollars on equipment, clothes, greens fees, vacations, and even real estate on golf courses. Nobody will spend that much on pool so the game will never be as strong as golf. But the least we can do is to not run down players for spending a little money. if anything, those in the business of pool should get much more aggresive about cue fitting and get players to have custom made cues that actually fit them.

ras314
05-08-2003, 04:28 PM
Is also a much cheaper way to learn not to whang the thing on the table!

Ralph S.
05-08-2003, 04:46 PM
My opinion is that the skill level shouldnt really dictate the equipment one has. Possibly he may be or will become a student of the game and if so already has a heads up on a solid cue. This is money he most likely wont have to spend later. Also, buying expensive cues will most of the time, not always, but most of the time teach one to care for their equipment. This person will be atleast learning this early on I hope LOL.

Tom_In_Cincy
05-08-2003, 05:02 PM
I like to suggest to new players that a good cue to get is a cuetec.

They are relativlley inexpensive and can become a good break cue if they decide to get another higher end cue.

Weight (always a difficult decision), tip diameter, Linen or nylon or composit wraps, are all factors that can be considered (learned?) after you by your first cue.

Your next cue choice should be a more personal and learned decision.

caedos
05-08-2003, 07:08 PM
Life is short. Rule #1=have fun! I've had players, friends, and students ask me what to play with. IMHO any given player should find what makes them happy and within whatever price range they are willing to spend. Maybe the kid in us wants every toy on the shelf, and maybe some people can afford them.

Carl

NBC-BOB
05-09-2003, 07:27 AM
It's not the cue that makes the player, it's the one using it.Give any good player a inexpensive but decent hitting cue and he'll shoot well.

Rich R.
05-09-2003, 08:29 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote NBC-BOB:</font><hr> It's not the cue that makes the player, it's the one using it.Give any good player a inexpensive but decent hitting cue and he'll shoot well. <hr /></blockquote>
Bob, I don't think it is a question of the cue making the player.
Should the beginning, or poor, player be deprived of a decent cue? I don't think so.

If that is the cue he wanted, and he didn't have to rob anybody to get the money, why can't he buy it? I don't see the problem here.

A driver isn't required to prove his ability, before he allowed to buy a Ferrari.

NBC-BOB
05-09-2003, 08:38 AM
well rich I guess I misread what the real question was. Sure I agree with you.One should be able play with whatever cue they want and can afford.I just hope they treat the cue with some respect.Would break my heart see a new player, playing with a cue that I alway's wanted but couldn't afford
ha-ha.

Rich R.
05-09-2003, 08:44 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote NBC-BOB:</font><hr> Would break my heart see a new player, playing with a cue that I alway's wanted but couldn't afford
ha-ha. <hr /></blockquote>
Bob, keep in mind, this guy is playing with a NEW $500 Balibushka, NOT an Original $10,000 Balibushka. I would assume, your dreams were about playing with one of the originals. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Popcorn
05-09-2003, 09:03 AM
I think a new player needs to know what they like, before taking the plunge into a really expensive cue. Especially if the cue will represent a sacrifice to have. I have a friend that got a very expensive Scruggs and had no idea what he liked in a cue. On bad advice, (not mine), the cue was too lite and both shafts were too small for him. He even got a leather wrap, thinking it was a luxury, not considering he may not like the feel. The cue has been back to Scruggs four times making changes. Now the worst part, him buying the cue was almost the cause of a divorce due to the money he has spent on it. I think some who spend a lot of money on a fancy cue, feel it may give them a little better status among the other players where they play. They may not be the best player, but at least they have a great cue to show off. That is some of what I have observed. A guy comes in with a fancy set up, cue and case, sometimes is not that good a player. Most really good players went through all that when they started out and now opt. for a good practice cue, not so fancy.

bluewolf
05-10-2003, 09:12 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> I think a new player needs to know what they like, before taking the plunge into a really expensive cue. Especially if the cue will represent a sacrifice to have. <hr /></blockquote>

I agree with you, Popcorn. It took me six months of regular play to decide what weight was right for me and the balance. I like a midbalance where others like something else.

I had a friend(sl3) with a 1500 dollar meucci that could not tell the difference between it and his cheap cue. I guess one has a right to spend whatever they want if they have gobs of money.


We already have too many cues around here. Both of us have instroke cases and mine is a kool leather one I picked up used. I had bought the other instroke case, without the foggiest idea of what was right for me and it was too heavy and bulky. Now ww uses it. He needs something bigger than I do so it will hold his jump cue.

I was like that guy who got this expensive cue. I had my whitten case and next custom cue aalready picked out, exactly what it looked like and everything and then took a reality check.

Hey, why spend all of that money on a case(or cue) that is that expensive, when i already have a kool one and I am a beginner.

I was at a point financially where I could get that whitten, which, imo is the same thing as spending a lot of money on an expensive cue. I decided I would rather have a little money in the bank just to know I have it or in case of emergencies.

That guy can spend as much money as he wants but for me: geez, I am a beginner and already have more than enough pool stuff I need.

Laura

Kato
05-10-2003, 09:43 AM
I've been playing this game for 10 years now and own only 4 cues. I've probably only owned 6 cues total during this time. Finally after 10 years I bought a new custom cue which I'll get in August. Does my game deserve one? Maybe. Will it make me better? Probably not. But I bought it because I wanted it. It's a beautiful cue and I feel like now, after all the years I've put in, that I should have something built for me, the way I want it.

Kato

Sid_Vicious
05-10-2003, 10:56 AM
"I had a friend(sl3) with a 1500 dollar meucci that could not tell the difference between it and his cheap cue."

Well DUH! ;-) sid~~~great fly rod though

arn3
05-10-2003, 03:51 PM
the price of the cue is inversely proportional to the skill level of the player, or, in other words, directly proportional to the player's income level.

cycopath
05-11-2003, 06:33 PM
One of my APA teammates (SL6) plays with one of those cheap ass old walking cane/poolcue jobs. He says he's had the thing for like 15 years, and he shoots damn good with it. So to each his own.

griffith_d
05-11-2003, 07:56 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> In general a beginner should start with an inexpensive (but solid) cue simply because they may change their preferences after gaining some experience.

BTW, a Balabushka is an inexpensive but solid cue, assuming you mean a Balabushka made in the past few years, so the player in question may be using "appropriate" equipment.

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>

I think Spiderman said it correct,..."appropriate equipment",..$500 is not a lot for a cue,..especially retail.

My 3rd cue was a $40 Brunswick, 25 years ago. That was a lot of money to me and most of my friends, but if my salary was as such, I might have spent more on a better cue and made bigger bets. It is all relative.

Griff

ROFL
05-12-2003, 02:08 AM
As a pool noob, I'm glad to see this topic come up. I used to play table tennis competitively back in college. My first paddle was a $30 mass produced model. It was much better than a typical "house paddle" but slow and dull compared to a professional model. I later graduated to a professional custom paddle that allows for very fast and spinny play. I can make shots with it that I never could with my $30 cheapo. But it would have been absolutely foolish for me to start out with a paddle like that, as I wouldn't have been able to control it. The higher performance equipment requires a higher skill level to be utilized, otherwise it works against you. Most guys new to the game buy the fastest paddle and rubber sheets on the market. They were easy to beat because they could never keep the ball on the table. Is there no such relationship when it comes to pool cues? Will a more expensive cue be both easier to control and have better playing characteristics than a cheaper one?

Incidentally, I'm shocked by how expensive pool cues can be. Even the most expensive profesional paddle will cost less than $200. To see people saying $500 isn't much to spend on a cue scares the crap out of me. I need to find more poor man's games...

Rich R.
05-12-2003, 04:00 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ROFL:</font><hr> Incidentally, I'm shocked by how expensive pool cues can be. Even the most expensive profesional paddle will cost less than $200. To see people saying $500 isn't much to spend on a cue scares the crap out of me. I need to find more poor man's games... <hr /></blockquote>
When they start making paddles with veneered points, leather wrapped handles and ivory inlays, the price will go up. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

eg8r
05-12-2003, 08:48 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Most guys new to the game buy the fastest paddle and rubber sheets on the market. They were easy to beat because they could never keep the ball on the table. Is there no such relationship when it comes to pool cues? Will a more expensive cue be both easier to control and have better playing characteristics than a cheaper one?
<hr /></blockquote> Nope, at least in my mind. A more expensive cue, for the most part just means it is prettier. You can get a great playing cue for the prices mentioned above, however once you start spending more you are probably shopping for a custom cue, or a cue with fancy inlays. A custom cuemaker charges a little more because it is their handiwork you are playing with (instead of a cue being mass produced). The fancy inlays and complexity of inlay design, the main reason for the price, does not do anything for the playability, feel of the cue.

Like Rich said, once your paddle starts getting inlays, the price will begin to shoot up.

eg8r

griffith_d
05-12-2003, 11:28 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ROFL:</font><hr> As a pool noob, I'm glad to see this topic come up. I used to play table tennis competitively back in college. My first paddle was a $30 mass produced model. It was much better than a typical "house paddle" but slow and dull compared to a professional model. I later graduated to a professional custom paddle that allows for very fast and spinny play. I can make shots with it that I never could with my $30 cheapo. But it would have been absolutely foolish for me to start out with a paddle like that, as I wouldn't have been able to control it. The higher performance equipment requires a higher skill level to be utilized, otherwise it works against you. Most guys new to the game buy the fastest paddle and rubber sheets on the market. They were easy to beat because they could never keep the ball on the table. Is there no such relationship when it comes to pool cues? Will a more expensive cue be both easier to control and have better playing characteristics than a cheaper one?

Incidentally, I'm shocked by how expensive pool cues can be. Even the most expensive profesional paddle will cost less than $200. To see people saying $500 isn't much to spend on a cue scares the crap out of me. I need to find more poor man's games... <hr /></blockquote>

To say that $500 is "not a lot",...like I said,..it is all relative.

If growing up and you get your first car and your parents make $250,000 a year(not that mine did), your 1st car might be more than with parents that made $12,000(which mine did and bought my own car),....it is all in what a person is used to and can afford and what is considered a lot.

Griff

Alfie
05-12-2003, 03:40 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr> When they start making paddles with veneered points, leather wrapped handles and ivory inlays, the price will go up. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>You do not have to have a valuable custom paddle to have a good quality paddle.
:-)

SecaucusFats
05-12-2003, 05:41 PM
I have some production cues a McDermott J/B, a Predator BK, a Meucci, a Palmer and some others.

I think that once you reach a certain level of ability, and have a very clear idea of what you really want in a cue and more importantly the exact type of hit you prefer then it's time to go custom.

I shoot with a very nice, very fancy, custom cue with ivory ferrules on each of the two shafts that came with it. The weight (19.75 oz), length 59", taper (custom pro), balance (forward weighted), tips (Hercules w/fiber pad backing), ferrules (Ivory), and wrap (black leather) were specified by me. The joint is a piloted 3 8/10 titanium Radial wood to wood with phenolic sleeves. This cue was made by Murray Tucker III in Leesburg, FL. The cue hits like a dream.

The way I see it production cues are designed for a "generic" quality of hit. For many people this "generic" hit is adequate, many of these people can, and do, shoot lights out pool with a production cue. But, if you want a specific type of hit, you have to go custom. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Fats

Alfie
05-12-2003, 07:58 PM
http://www.robbinstabletennis.com/phiall.htm