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View Full Version : Whtat makes a good pool player?



bluewolf
05-12-2003, 08:01 AM
I would be interested in hearing what people here think, especially since there are lots of good players here.

This how it looks to me as a beginner.

1. Fundamentals ie stroke, alignment, etc
2.Experience/time on the table
3. Can shoot all the shots on the table with a high degree of success except a few REALLY hard ones.Those they get in at less % unless Effren could not make it. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
4. Very good cueball control
5. Good at safe and knows when to run and when to play safe and which one to play.
6.Good break, balls bust up and at least one frequently goes in a pocket.
7. A really good lag so you win the break

Well, I am sure that there are other things or more in detail but all I can think of right now.

Laura

pooltchr
05-12-2003, 08:30 AM
IMHO, Numbers 1 and 4 pretty much cover it. If your fundamentals are right, and you can control the cue ball, you are well on your way.

05-12-2003, 08:30 AM
ironically, i spent half the night on my home table thinking this very question but in a different form which was " when or how does one decide that he/she is a good player ". and i can honestly say that i dont know, because you can have a great stroke and still not know what to do on the table, or no stroke, but can perfectly analyze a table. as for me, i have the stroke, i know when,where,how to get out or get safe, but i dont feel that makes me any different than any other player. so what does ?

ChrisW
05-12-2003, 09:16 AM
1. Excellent hand/eye coordination
2. Intelligence
3. Patience
4. Love of the game
5. Practice
6. Practice
7. Practice
8. Practice


Chris

L.S. Dennis
05-12-2003, 10:03 AM
I'd say pretty much everthing you and others have said is true. I may also add the ability to make 80% of all the kick shots that you may be confronted with.

I also might add 2 little things that I heard the great Buddy Hall say, and those are: 1, If the safe is as hard as the shot, take the shot! And 2, If you have position don't play it!!!

Popcorn
05-12-2003, 10:36 AM
A good player to me performs to their ability when it counts. They may not be that high on the playing scale but can be depended on. I know players that shoot the lights out but can't be depended on when it counts. To me they are not really good players. If you have a sense of what your game is and can play it, you are a good player. You learn this giving weight. On the road it is called "Lamb Killing" You can go into a place and offer a player weight sight-UN-seen, because so many just don't perform when it counts. Then once and a while you run into a guy that may not be a very skilled player, but plays his speed and is tough to beat. I like those players no matter what speed they play. I just have more respect for even a weaker player that is consistent, then a guy that may never miss in practice but can't play when it counts, The second is just a paper tiger.

bluewolf
05-12-2003, 12:22 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> A good player to me performs to their ability when it counts. They may not be that high on the playing scale but can be depended on. I know players that shoot the lights out but can't be depended on when it counts. To me they are not really good players. If you have a sense of what your game is and can play it, you are a good player. You learn this giving weight. On the road it is called "Lamb Killing" You can go into a place and offer a player weight sight-UN-seen, because so many just don't perform when it counts. Then once and a while you run into a guy that may not be a very skilled player, but plays his speed and is tough to beat. I like those players no matter what speed they play. I just have more respect for even a weaker player that is consistent, then a guy that may never miss in practice but can't play when it counts, The second is just a paper tiger. <hr /></blockquote>

Gosh Popcorn. I never thought about that. Some things about my game are good by that definition just not a good shooter. The good stuff, I guess is good concentration, do not fold when I am behind, play my best games in matches, play my heart out, if that makes sense. I am not a good shooter but play to win full tilt.

Then when it is over, win or lose,feel good that I played my very best.

Laura

pooljunkie73
05-12-2003, 12:26 PM
10% physical.................90% mental /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Rod
05-12-2003, 03:01 PM
Or what makes a pool player good? The short version.

A burning desire to win. Some might call it Heart. Very little if anything effects how a good player thinks or plays.

Feel -- you won't get far without this one.

Visualization, this combined with feel gives an exact route to the next shot, break out, carom etc.

Execution, the ability to carry out the needed feel for what you visualized.

Knowledge, This could be any number of avenues, practice, lessons, books etc. I prefer to think of this part as, what you learn when things go wrong. In other words learn from every mistake. A good player won't blow off a missed shot without knowing what went wrong. They don't want to make the same mistake again. I don't mean they dwell on it in play or matches.

Practice, something every player does. However a good player works on the above list and uses this time to correct mistakes and experiment. How they do this of course is individual. Through practice they find out their strong points and limitations.

The rest is a given, concentration, eye hand cordination, good fundamentals, etc. That's why you practice.

Their not bangers, every stroke means something. They can play several games and love competition. In the grand scheme of things many people say they do, do this. To what intensity, well you be the judge of yourself. Playing and having fun is great, even good players do this. The better they play the more fun they have. LOL But if all you do is play:play and not pay close attention to ball reactions etc then the learning process can be very slow.

What we get out of the game, in a learning sense, is in direct proportion to the amount of quality time we spend.
Granted the time frame is faster for some, that's natural. What isn't natural is someone that wants to be good or better but doesn't pay attention. Actually it a sense it is natural because I see it all the time. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Rod

Scott Lee
05-12-2003, 03:18 PM
Popcorn...That's a very interesting perspective, and one that follows my own "sense" of ability in myself and others.
However, the reality is, that any player who at any time exhibits near flawless play (even if for just a short period) is considered by their peers (the poolplaying public) to be "very good players"! Some of those 'paper tigers' will go on to become seasoned veteran players, perhaps even with acknowledged skills. The majority will remain shy of becoming what we would refer to as 'all-around players'! Nice post!

Scott Lee

Scott Lee
05-12-2003, 03:32 PM
Rod...I couldn't have said it better myself! LOL I have always said there are three parts to a pool player: Heart (the ability to bear down under pressure), Head (the ability to keep cool in the face of adversity), and Skill...which is the smallest part! Skill is the easiest to obtain. You can teach "Head", but you cannot teach "Heart"!Either you've got it or you don't! BTW, these terms may or may not have anything to do with gambling! Great post!

Scott

bluewolf
05-12-2003, 03:40 PM
WOW Rod, what a great post!! WW has been after me for months to play by feel, and instead i tried to playpool the analytical way. Well even though I got a little better, I did not get very far with that stuff. Now am trying to learn to read the angles. I also like what you say about the good players looking at their miss to see why.

Heart? I guess that is what makes a person go full tilt and never give up. There is a little story.

There was a woman who wasnt a real strong pool player, maybe a medium sl4. But she wanted to be pro and she had heart. Two or was it one year later, she was winning the highest points in one of the women's semipro tours. Now that to me is heart.

Laura

Popcorn
05-12-2003, 03:55 PM
I didn't mean for it to be a put down of the perpetual practicing player. It is just a curiosity, you see them at the tournaments, local, small entry fees, yet they are on the rail and won't play. I think they are missing out. They do, I am sorry to say, command a little less respect in the subculture of the pool world, even if they play very well. I remember being at a tournament and got sick. I offered my spot to a guy I knew played very good. I told him to play and just have fun, maybe we will make a little money. He had all kinds of excuses, he had not been playing good the last few days, he needed a new tip, ( No kidding he actually said that). His wife could not even talk him into playing. The worst part is, he may in fact have the heart of a player an not even know it. Lucky for me Danny DiLiberto walked in and had no spot so I gave him mine. Not known for playing 9-ball, he ended up winning the tournament and we split around $2000. I never put down anybody, anyone who likes pool is OK in my book, but some just don't let themselves experience the whole ball of wax.

bluewolf
05-12-2003, 03:55 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr> Rod...I couldn't have said it better myself! LOL I have always said there are three parts to a pool player: Heart (the ability to bear down under pressure), Head (the ability to keep cool in the face of adversity), and Skill...which is the smallest part! Skill is the easiest to obtain. You can teach "Head", but you cannot teach "Heart"!Either you've got it or you don't! BTW, these terms may or may not have anything to do with gambling! Great post!

Scott <hr /></blockquote>

Interesting post.I never heard heart described that way. To it is that fierce determination, that zeal, fire in your veins for what you are striving for, and never give up. You can try but if you have heart, the fire in your veins keeps driving you. In just what I have seen, the person that has heart does not fold under pressure because all that exists for them is that game, totally in the present. The people around do not exist, the wins and losses do not matter because all that exists is that game, that table, those balls. That is why a person with heart can come from behind and win. The person with heart always plays their best, imo, irregardless of the opponent they face.

I guess the rest of it relates to skills, which can be learned and a person can take lessons. I think that I agree with Scott that you can teach a person to play pool, but you cannot teach them heart. Somethings a person either has or they do not and like Scott says, this is one of them.

Laura

05-12-2003, 04:11 PM
rod, hell of a post &amp; i completely agree with you. Unfortunately not everyone has the heart, i've been told all to many times, that i do and don't have any heart, but if i know a shot is make able i'll shoot if the balls were 20ft apart. But theirs different types of heart, i know players that shoot thier ass's off just for fun, but when their playing for money, they can't make a shot, and the other way around, some people dont or can't handle tournaments. I would honestly like to be able to say that heart comes with time &amp; experience but it does'nt, having heart is something that you either will have or wont.

bottom line:
EITHER YOU'LL DIE FIGHTING, OR YOU'LL DIE RUNNING. YOU CHOOSE!

SpiderMan
05-12-2003, 04:21 PM
I'd add to Rod's fine list one that I consider critical, at least in tactical games like 8-ball:

Imagination: Like when your opponent has two corners blocked and you play safe by combo'ing one of your balls to make one of his, and send the cue to make the other, leaving his only remaining shot down a rail that you have blocked /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

SpiderMan

Rod
05-12-2003, 04:28 PM
Thanks Scott, yes gambling is just another way of keeping score. LOL

Rod

Rod
05-12-2003, 04:58 PM
muujahid,
I think time and experience can play a part. In a sense it's like survival. A very young kid doesn't have a clue, but you learn if you are to survive in this world. I'd like to think it's a product of how your raised, but that doesn't hold true for everyone. There are so many aspects to consider and no single one is the answer.

Good parents have a lot of heart, they have to. LOL Some just exceed in other areas, everyone has heart it just so happens pool is not their forte.

Rod

Rod
05-12-2003, 05:37 PM
Feel comes from practice and what you visualize will happen after the stroke. If the ball stops two feet short, long etc, you might blame that on feel. That could be a mistake because it can go back to knowledge. If you hit a ball fat or thin, with english etc, and forget or don't know the effect. If however you hit the ball as planned and it varies a wide margin, then that's feel. It's always based on a well executed shot. This is in general, don't carve this in stone since there are other factors.

[ QUOTE ]
I also like what you say about the good players looking at their miss to see why.

<hr /></blockquote>

Yes and sometimes what you see can be deceving without knowledge. A good player though usually knows why. I didn't qualify how good. Depending on their level, it usually limits their knowledge.

Rod

Sid_Vicious
05-12-2003, 08:25 PM
Born talent, confidence and an absolute happy mind. The "powerball ingredient", the fertilizer if you will for growing a fine, top player, is all the time in the world to play, no worries, just PLAY. Lack of time, that jumbled life which 99% of us have to some degree, will bog down even the best mechanical player in the world...sid~~~thinks it's all relative to whatever your definition of "good" is though

bigbro6060
05-12-2003, 10:11 PM
Mental composure under pressure

there are many players who are champs on the practice table with great strokes, knowledge etc but when it comes to pressure competition, they don't do themselves justice

i'd also add

a strategic and tactical mind

good eyesight

fullfilled sex life (so doesn't get distracted)

no drinking, drug or gambling problems

appealing arrogance

bluewolf
05-13-2003, 04:08 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> Feel comes from practice and what you visualize will happen after the stroke. If the ball stops two feet short, long etc, you might blame that on feel. That could be a mistake because it can go back to knowledge. If you hit a ball fat or thin, with english etc, and forget or don't know the effect. If however you hit the ball as planned and it varies a wide margin, then that's feel. It's always based on a well executed shot. This is in general, don't carve this in stone since there are other factors.


Yes and sometimes what you see can be deceving without knowledge. A good player though usually knows why. I didn't qualify how good. Depending on their level, it usually limits their knowledge.

Rod <hr /></blockquote>

Thanks Rod.When I miss, I look at it to see why. It is that I read the angle wrong most of the time and I think that is experience or in my case lack thereof. When I look at it, I can see that I hit in the place I aimed, I just did not see the angle right. It appears that my stroke is good (not perfect) set, pause%

bluewolf
05-13-2003, 04:21 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> Feel comes from practice and what you visualize will happen after the stroke. If the ball stops two feet short, long etc, you might blame that on feel. That could be a mistake because it can go back to knowledge. If you hit a ball fat or thin, with english etc, and forget or don't know the effect. If however you hit the ball as planned and it varies a wide margin, then that's feel. It's always based on a well executed shot. This is in general, don't carve this in stone since there are other factors.


Yes and sometimes what you see can be deceving without knowledge. A good player though usually knows why. I didn't qualify how good. Depending on their level, it usually limits their knowledge.

Rod <hr /></blockquote>

Thanks Rod. I do not do english on shots that are not easy. When I miss in the harder cuts, I usually hit the edge of the pocket unless I did not concentrate well enough on the shot (in practice).I am rarely way off but when that happens, I was not concentrating on hitting where I need to on the cb.When I miss, I look at it to see why. It is that I read the angle wrong most of the time and I think that is experience or in my case lack thereof. When I look at it, I can see that I hit in the place I aimed, I just did not see the angle right. It appears that my stroke is good (not perfect) set, pause, finish, freeze, head does not come up,alignment and stance good, bridge good, I am hitting on the cb where I am aiming because I hit on ob where I aimed at.

I am learning to read the angles and keep shooting better. I haave 10 days before our next match due to a break in the session. Anyway, I told ww that I thought feel was when you have shot in so many balls that you mostly have all of those angles memorized and just pop it in. I guess I am thinking maybe that learning to read angles might be the beginning of playing by feel. I cannot go up to the table and just pop them in. I have to concentrate on each shot just like it is the 'money ball'.
That has helped me to stop missing the short ones and the easy long ones.

I know that I cannot rush it. I just want to get more consistent at harder long cuts before I get promoted. When that happens I will have a 3-2 race against say a four, now I have better spot.

I am two wins (we think)away, if I win my next two matches, so I think I will play some 5s and 6s til I can make harder cuts. Is not it odd how you can want somethiing so bad and then when it is in your grasp, you realize either you dont want it or that it has ceased to matter. I guess it matters in the sense that I want to get better so I will keep on winning since my w/l for last 10 matches is 70%

Yeah lack of experience, but heart is there for sure, however, a body that seems to not cooperate in giving me enough time on the table so reality is that progress may be slow. Why I try to live in the present and feel good about little steps.

There is a saying in AA. If you have one foot in the past and one in the future, you are peeing on the present.

So I keep going to the table and if I start keeling over or something I sit down and then go back to the table again. This is how it goes and how I get in 1-2 hours a day.

So to those who have expereince, that is what I am working on. I have always had heart in anything I got into.

Laura

bluewolf
05-13-2003, 04:27 AM
Sorry for repeating myself in two straight posts. Memory not good.

Laura

jjinfla
05-13-2003, 06:50 AM
I didn't read any of the replies to your question because I know the definitive answer to your question. The formula to being good, great, proficient, expert is all the same:
Instruction followed by practice, practice, practice, then more instruction, followed by practice, practice, practice, then more instruction, followed by practice, practice, practice. In other words it takes a lot of hard work and dedication and the degree of your excellence is directly proportional to the amount of hard work you want to put into it. Jake~~~the items you posted will all follow from proper instruction and practice, practice, practice. Is one more imprtant than the other? Probably not. You must have proficiency in all facets to be really great. Jake

jjinfla
05-13-2003, 07:13 AM
Now after reading the posts I think people may be confusing heart with confidence. A couple weeks ago I noticed that when I play Missy I can't do anything wrong. She is easy to beat. I know I will win and am full of confidence. I am relaxed and stroking well, making shot after shot. Then when I play someone better then me my confidence level drops, I tense up and shots that are a little difficult loom as impossible shots. And its all in my confidense level. So last week I just told myself that when I am playing in the local tournaments every opponent was going to be Missy. I would forget about who I was playing and just play my game. When they were shooting I would think, "Okay, Missy time for you to miss". And of course they all do. It worked for me, took a 2nd and a 1st. And shot the best pool of my life. Jake

#### leonard
05-13-2003, 07:34 AM
Laura I just wanted to talk about number 7. I had posted before about Vern Petersen who played in pool tourneys in the 40s50/60s. He had lost 5 straight games to Mosconi in exhibitions, Willie had run 150 and out in every game. When he asked Willie what he had to do to win a game, he told him he wasn't trying hard enough. Vern said what are you talking about all I have done is the opening breakshot. That was when Willie hit him with practicing his lag because he lost every lag.####

Terry
05-13-2003, 07:41 AM
I think Rod gave you an excellent reply, but i'll add something at a lower level. You have to see what is happening and know why. Last week I played a handicap 9 ball tournament in a town 30 miles down the road. I end up playing a 7 handicap in the finals and i'm a 9. When I met him on the winners side I beat him 9-2 . I wait for the winner of the B side and i'm getting too much time without playing. The same 7 handicap comes in without a break and runs the first rack. I miss my first shot and he runs the second rack. I see his confidence is high and getting higher so I start making him shoot shots he don't like ( safties ), next I see his confidence slipping and mine is going up. The result was 9-3 for me. Confidence at any level is where your at, if you don't like where your at do something to change it. Terry

bluewolf
05-13-2003, 09:38 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jjinfla:</font><hr> I didn't read any of the replies to your question because I know the definitive answer to your question. The formula to being good, great, proficient, expert is all the same:
Instruction followed by practice, practice, practice, then more instruction, followed by practice, practice, practice, then more instruction, followed by practice, practice, practice. In other words it takes a lot of hard work and dedication and the degree of your excellence is directly proportional to the amount of hard work you want to put into it. Jake~~~the items you posted will all follow from proper instruction and practice, practice, practice. Is one more imprtant than the other? Probably not. You must have proficiency in all facets to be really great. Jake <hr /></blockquote>

Thanks Jake. It is nice to see everyone's opinion. If i keep improving that is good enough for me. I guess my priorities changed due to some stuff and I just want to improve and stay motivated. I try to practice as much as I can, try to do 2 hrs a day and Scott is coming here in June, which is super. That means 3 times in one year.

Laura

bluewolf
05-13-2003, 10:09 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jjinfla:</font><hr> Now after reading the posts I think people may be confusing heart with confidence. A couple weeks ago I noticed that when I play Missy I can't do anything wrong. She is easy to beat. Then when I play someone better then me my confidence level drops, I tense up and shots that are a little difficult loom as impossible shots. And its all in my confidense level. <hr /></blockquote>

Confidence and heart? hmmm. When I am in a match with a decent opponent, nothing else exists but that table and those balls.The people around do not matter. It does not matter if won the last game or lost it. it does not matter if I am on the nill or my opponent is. Confidence or lack there of ceaes to exist, for lack of better words.

The only time i am not totally focused is when playing a crappy opponent. Then, since I know that they cannot beat me, I play around too much. One of them has not beat me yet but one almost did.That is why occasionally you will see the two beat the five. The five was slack, lazy, overconfidence. The two was playing their heart out. The five way better but the two won.

So I guess maybe am opposite from you. When playing and easy opponent overconfident and play around. When the opponent is reasonably hard, it is different and nothing exists outside that table, that game, those balls.

I guess different people would call it something else because the opponent becomes my enemy and it is war. The objective is to kill(win) or maim (mentally). This results in an attitude like I am in a real battle and it is kill or be killed.

So what do you call it: killer instinct, heart, what? I certainly do not have the answer to it.

I heard about heart first with racing siberian huskies. The person who ran teams said this: it is not the strongest, biggest, fastest or most aggressive sibe that should be the lead dog. It should be the one with the most heart.

Laura

Rod
05-13-2003, 11:34 AM
[ QUOTE ]
(Rod)Feel comes from practice and what you visualize will happen after the stroke. If the ball stops two feet short, long etc, you might blame that on feel. That could be a mistake because it can go back to knowledge. If you hit a ball fat or thin, with english etc, and forget or don't know the effect. If however you hit the ball as planned and it varies a wide margin, then that's feel. It's always based on a well executed shot. This is in general, don't carve this in stone since there are other factors.
<hr /></blockquote>


[ QUOTE ]
(Laura) Thanks Rod. I do not do english on shots that are not easy. When I miss in the harder cuts, I usually hit the edge of the pocket unless I did not concentrate well enough on the shot (in practice). <hr /></blockquote>

Ok we got off track here, possibly I didn't explain well enough. In my quote I should have said,( or with english).
Forget the english, it doesn't matter. Basically the only difference it makes is on the return angle.

Lets shoot this shot with (center only) to make my original point. Which was related to feel or knowledge. If we shoot this ball center pocket at a med slow speed we expect this reaction. Line A is the appx location the c/b contacts the rail. Line B is the return line and where we expect the c/b to stop.
START(
%AG3G4%PZ9L8%QA6H5%RQ3N6%WQ3N9%XC1I4%]D0D1%^H9I2%eB5a1%bD1I0
%cE1H5%dF7G9
)END

If we hit the o/b to full but still make the ball (note the pocket line on each shot) we get this reaction on line C.
START(
%AG3G4%PZ9L8%QA6H5%RQ3N6%SM3K8%WQ3N9%XC1I4%YM5L2%Z C2I4%]C8D7
%^H9I2%eB5a1%bD1I0%cE1H5%dF7G9
)END

If we hit the ball thin but it still goes in we get yet another reaction, Line D
START(
%AG3G4%PZ9L8%QA6H5%RQ3N6%SM3K8%TV1Q0%UV4Q5%VB7I4%W Q3N9%XC1I4
%YM5L2%ZC2I4%]D7D0%^H9I2%eB5a1%bD1I0%cE1H5%dF7G9
)END

Here is the effect if you were playing position on the 8 ball.

START(
%AG3G4%HL9S8%PZ9L8%QA6H5%RQ3N6%SM3K8%TV1Q0%UV4Q5%V B7I4%WQ3N9
%XC1I4%YM5L2%ZC2I4%]D7D0%^H9I2%eB5a1%bD1I0%cE1H5%dF7G9
)END
The angles are a close approximation but notice how far the c/b travels. Without the knowledge of these reactions it's more difficult to grasp feel. Feel is needed to play position amonst other things. Feel is based on what you know, or knowledge. Remember if the c/b is struck with anything but center the angles and distance will vary even more. Thats why a true stroke and accurate strike on the c/b is so critical.

Rod

Jon from MN
05-13-2003, 12:33 PM
Ok I will bite on this one. In your eyes can a player have heart and lose it? Skill I agree head I definatly agree but heart? In the past I was feard by many they say the more on the line the better I played. I did fairly well gambling. My wife told me several years ago that I needed to be more of a gentelman when I played I used to have this KILLER attitude just like fighting. well I took her advice and now Im a nice guy my knowledge is good jmo my head is good. But no heart? I cant win anythinbg any more I havent won a tourny in 2 years I havent done squatt didly do you think its heart? Jon from mn. ps let me know next time your in my area I will see if I can get something going for you.

Rod
05-13-2003, 12:40 PM
Leonard,
Now there is a name out of the past. I was trying to think of his name some time back. If I have this correct, Vern played out of a room in the LA area in the 60"s. I forget the name. I watched him play a few times. I noticed he had quite a shake in his back hand, maye it wasn't always that way. No matter he still hit the balls pretty sweet. I'm not sure of age, but he was an older gent then. I was told a few stories about him but that was to many years ago to remember.

Rod

bluewolf
05-13-2003, 02:05 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Jon from MN:</font><hr> Ok I will bite on this one. In your eyes can a player have heart and lose it? Skill I agree head I definatly agree but heart? In the past I was feard by many they say the more on the line the better I played. I did fairly well gambling. My wife told me several years ago that I needed to be more of a gentelman when I played I used to have this KILLER attitude just like fighting. well I took her advice and now Im a nice guy my knowledge is good jmo my head is good. But no heart? I cant win anythinbg any more I havent won a tourny in 2 years I havent done squatt didly do you think its heart? Jon from mn. ps let me know next time your in my area I will see if I can get something going for you. <hr /></blockquote>

I have been the happiest when going all out in some kind of competition. To me, competition was like an adrenalin rush where to others thay could not understand that.

A siberian husky was bred to run. Running makes them happy. The ones with heart have more of an intense drive and a seemingly unbroken spirit. But put them in the backyard, and never let them run again,or only let them trot, how can this be happiness?

I think that well meaning people sometimes quench our spirit without meaning to,because this happened to me before in karate. When a person can no longer do something that is fire in their veins for whatever reason, it is like being in a boat without a rudder. I think a person can have their heart broke when what they were born to do is taken away by whatever circumstances they are.

Losing heart? I would say broke heart.

Laura

Scott Lee
05-13-2003, 02:17 PM
John...That's a tough one. We talked about what you used to be like years ago, and that lifestyle probably enabled that "killer instinct" to easily prevail. Nowadays, you concern yourself more with the beauty and respect for the game, plus giving of yourself to others...frequently at little or no cost! Why some players can continue to bear down "at the bell", so to speak, and others cannot, is an eternal question. I think it probably boils down to just how BAD you want something! If you wanted it bad enough, all your old skills would just come flooding back, imo.
Most people don't ever achieve near the skill level that you had at one time. It just isn't that important to you now...at least in your conscious mind. I'll let you know next time I'm coming through N. MN! Great to see you last Xmas!

Scott

jjinfla
05-13-2003, 02:22 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote #### leonard:</font><hr> Laura I just wanted to talk about number 7. I had posted before about Vern Petersen who played in pool tourneys in the 40s50/60s. He had lost 5 straight games to Mosconi in exhibitions, Willie had run 150 and out in every game. When he asked Willie what he had to do to win a game, he told him he wasn't trying hard enough. Vern said what are you talking about all I have done is the opening breakshot. That was when Willie hit him with practicing his lag because he lost every lag.#### <hr /></blockquote> You didn't finish the story ####. After losing, Vern said Mosconi will have to give him a spot. Mosconi, said, "spot you? I haven't seen you shoot yet". Well, maybe it wasn't Vern and Mosconi, but someone said it.

sack316
05-13-2003, 02:32 PM
just to throw in one thing about the practice... it also has alot to do with what you practice too. Like when I used to play baseball, a coach at a Braves camp came up to me and my friend and asked my buddy "what part ofyour game do you feel you are best at?" We kind of stumbled for a second, so he simplified it to "well, are you better at fielding or hitting" to which he responded " I'm better with my fielding and not as strong with the bat, coach." the coach said "thats great son, now tell me, what part do you practice the most of the two, your fielding or hitting?" And of course he said he practiced fielding more that batting. So now the coach got a smile on his face and said "well there you go, if you want to better the weaker part of your game,you should practice on the weaker part at least 60% of the time. You'll still have a real good glove, but over time you won't have a weaker and stronger part to your game, you'll have two srong points to your game."
What the coach had said has stayed with me through the years and now I apply it to pool. Like I am good with cutting the OB up the rail, but I struggle with long shots with the cb on a rail, so obviously I need to practice what I struggle with. People in the hall may think you suck from missing so many shots, but hey, maybe that'll make them want to play you too!y'all have a good day and wish me luck in league tonight.

Jon from MN
05-14-2003, 01:14 AM
Thanks Scott
Sometimes I just try to do to much. I realize that its hard to be at the top of your game and promote and teach and... I think I kinda awnsered my own question. It must be the age thing. See you soon good luck. Jon

marek
05-14-2003, 06:59 AM
There are many great replies to your question but I think there is one thing nobody has mentioned.... to me one of very important important factor is your behavior at the table - do you respect your opponent or do you hate them? do you act like a fool when you do a mistake or do you have great anger management? Take Earl Strickland: he is considered by many as one of the greatest shooters ever BUT as he acts like a fool around the table he has a hard time getting respect from audience and opponents as well...
Just my opinion...