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View Full Version : Masses-hit top, mid, or bottom?



05-12-2003, 09:08 PM
I've heard several things- whats the most effective way to hit masses or curves- top, center, or bottom on the CB?

05-12-2003, 09:44 PM
i dont think you can hit the cb from the bottom on a masse shot. now as for the best way i dont know. as for how & where that depends on where you want to cb to go or what direction you want it to turn in. i find much easier to masse when am not trying to drive my cue dead throught the cb but rather half way. lol but it works everytime, and a ton of practice came along with it.

Rod
05-12-2003, 10:46 PM
First of all understand there is not a pool room owner alive that likes masse shots. That is unless it is done by someone competent, even then it can be questionable.

You can not masse the c/b with center. Any time the cue is elevated and hit off center a masse can exist. The common example is swerving around a ball an inch or two. That's why having the cue as level as possible is important. How effective it is, is the same as any normal stroke, with certain restrictions. As an example, In a normal stroke if you aim with low right and only hit right you don't get the desired result. Same with masse except the ball goes the wrong direction. I'll not explain it but you can do a Google search.

What I did was ask a room owner if I could practice those shots just before a table was to be recovered.

Rod

ceebee
05-12-2003, 11:20 PM
get yourself a Robert Byrne's Advanced Video & Book... you'll learn about Masse' & in time you'll become proficient.

GreenLion
05-13-2003, 12:39 AM
From my experiance doing masse i would say that anything above the center and off to the side of the CB will produce a curve.I perfer to hit the CB between extreme top and center cuase that seems to give me the best result.The more you jack up the greater the curve.Also the more english you put on that CB the greater the curve.Speed also effects the shot.In fact speed is extremely important in masse.Theres a little trick i use to get a close estimate of the speed i need to make the ball curve at the right place on the table.Let me show a few examples on the Pool table here:
START(
%A`3N1%B[2\1%CB5B6%Dt3C1%E[3\4%Fs9[9%Gt6C0%HD9Z3%IB8[9%J[4B4
%K[3\5%L[4\2%Mt0[9%NB8\0%O[3B1%Pa9L1%QQ1N8%RD1X2%eA7`5%_F1Y5
%`R0O9%aa0L2
)END
To get the cueball to curve toward the 8 at A ill need to hit the CB with the speed i would use if i were going to play a stop shot on the 12 ball at A.Now for the curve you see here ,To produce that much curve ill need to jack up about 40degrees but that varies with diff cloth.Im using left english on this shot.
When you want the CB to curve at any location just pretend that at that location there is a ball and play a stop shot on that imaginary ball and it will curve at that very spot.agian how much curve depends on these factors.1.How high above center your aiming on the cueball(I always aim between center and extreme top on CB)
2.How far your jacked up
3.How much english your applying
4.Speed
5.The speed of the cloth your playing on
Also keep in mind what bluewolf said:
No Pool Hall owner likes people doing masse unless they know what there doing.I would suggest that if you going to masse on a table at some pool hall or even your own get a break cloth and put it under the CB and also at a pool hall ask for permission 1st.I hope this post helps you out alittle.Theres alot of variables in masse but they can be very fun to do /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

bluewolf
05-13-2003, 05:30 AM
I try to chop down on the cb with english but thing I am doing something wrong because it just occasional works.

Laura

Deeman
05-13-2003, 06:24 AM
Most people try to "Chop Through" this shot. It is a much gentler stroke than most imagine and needs a good follow through, not chop through. The only way to learn the reaction of the cue ball is to hit this a bunch of times.

heater451
05-13-2003, 09:07 AM
A truly tight radius masses definitely requires hitting above the equator (following the "clock face" routine works).

However, you can shoot what I call a "light" masse, by using low+sidespin--it's more of a use of squirt to set the CB on a vector/path, which then is overtaken by the spin, to produce a curve.

When a blocking ball is close, but only interferes by a little (around 1/4 ball or less, maybe), then you can use this technique. If there's more distance to the shot, with or without more ball interference, you can use it.

If the blocking ball is close, and interferes a lot, then you have to move toward the standard, jacked-up/above the equator strike on the CB.



~~not really saying anything you don't know already. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif
========================

05-13-2003, 09:56 AM
I've only been playing a year or so but if I talk enough about it, my shotmaking ability goes up by leaps and bounds. A few more conversations and I will master this shot.

05-13-2003, 10:44 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote heater451:</font><hr> A truly tight radius masses definitely requires hitting above the equator (following the "clock face" routine works).

However, you can shoot what I call a "light" masse, by using low+sidespin--it's more of a use of squirt to set the CB on a vector/path, which then is overtaken by the spin, to produce a curve.
<hr /></blockquote>I agree heater -- I'm pretty good at what you're calling a "light" masse, also commonly called a "swerve" shot. I basically hit it as a low+sidespin shot with probably 15 degrees or so of elevation. I can pretty accurately and consistently apply it when the shot is longer and there is just an edge of an interfering ball in the way.

However, my consistency with true "tight" masse's leaves a lot to be desired. I don't want to practice them on my home table, and my PH time is much more limited than it used to be (not to mention PH's don't usually take kindly to masse practice). So I basically just try to never leave myself in a situation that requires masse -- I'll usually try a wild kick before I'll stroke straight down on the CB...

eg8r
05-13-2003, 11:01 AM
Hey Bluewolf, looks like you have a little child following you around. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

heater451
05-13-2003, 03:12 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dmorris68:</font><hr> . . .also commonly called a "swerve" shot. <hr /></blockquote> Now that I think about it, I've heard that term, but never really committed it to memory--makes more sense though.
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dmorris68:</font><hr>
However, my consistency with true "tight" masse's leaves a lot to be desired. I don't want to practice them on my home table, and my PH time is much more limited than it used to be (not to mention PH's don't usually take kindly to masse practice). So I basically just try to never leave myself in a situation that requires masse -- I'll usually try a wild kick before I'll stroke straight down on the CB... <hr /></blockquote>I've tried a few at home, but the fear of stabbing the cloth usually screws my stroke for it. I've even tried setting the cue into a side pocket mouth, so that I can stroke through the ball into the pocket, without much good results (haven't really committed to it, + my cloth is thick/slow). Alternatively, placing an extra piece of felt by/under the CB might help ease the fear--if you get good, you might even be able to use a quarter!

The tightest massť I recall was by a friend of mine on new/fast cloth (don't know the brand). This is pretty much what he did:

START(%AN7O5%BD7[0%CJ5O4%DL7N1%EM7P1%FK6P1%GK6N8%HM7N8%ID3Y2%JK6M5
%KJ5P7%LJ5N2%MK6Q4%NJ5R0%OJ5M0%PD7W7%bF5Z3%cF9Y0%d E5X0)END

He hit the 2, but didn't have enough gas left on the cueball--the 2 missed dropping by about 1/16".



=====================

stick8
05-13-2003, 10:33 PM
No long post here to massa or curve a ball you hit it off center left or right from top. that it!!!! STICK

05-14-2003, 05:38 AM
Thank you for that expert insight, Captain Obvious...

/ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Ralph S.
05-14-2003, 06:56 AM
To answer your question about masse shots, I think Heater451 mentioned it briefly. When looking at the CB, imagine the face of a clock. Try hitting at various points the way they would relate to the clock face ex. 3o'clock....5 o'clock and then you will see the varying amounts of extreme spin you will get.