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Anonamus
05-14-2003, 06:57 AM
I've been playing 1 pocket with this group for a couple of years. One of the guys has a collection of high end cues that he brings with him and lets me play with anyone I want. Once I pick out a cue I will play with it for 5 to 6 hours so I'm definitely getting a feel for it.

I've played with 4 different Black Boars, Southwest, Joel Hercek, Thomas Wayne, Phillippi, Frey, Scruggs, Joss, Guffey, Palmer, Robinson, McDaniels and probably some others.

The cues I like the best are the Black Boars but they are a bit too flexible in the shaft. The cue I play the best with is the Robinson ES61. It feels balanced in my hand and I make cut shots much more consistently with it. Since it is such a stiff playing cue I have to stoke it properly to get the ball to dance, but when I do the ball responds beautifully. It's not like a Meucci where you can load up the shaft and spin the ball like crazy. When I go back to my Schon, it doesn't feel right and I'm not as consistent.

The problem I have is I have not heard or read anything good about the Robinson. No one likes the metal on metal joint because it hits stiff, not to mention the shaft is 13 1/2". So, I probably will find it next to impossible to sell if I decide I don't want it anymore.

I'm not going to mention the price because we haven't decided on one yet, but I will tell you it is pricey. Especially compared to some other better known and more sought after cues. In fact, I feel the cue is over priced right from Robinson himself.

So, do I pay the money and forget about resale because of the way I play with it, or do I pass and keep looking for something less expensive and more popular?

Rich R.
05-14-2003, 07:52 AM
Just a note, in addition to what Popcorn said, you can change the shaft size or get a new shaft for this cue, but don't expect it to hit the same. Changing the diameter of the shaft will surely change the way it hits.

For comparison sake, you can see another Robinson cue at http://www.billiardcue.com/CueAlphbetical%206.html

Anonamus
05-14-2003, 08:04 AM
For some reason I'm not seeing Popcorn's reply. Was it deleted? Can someone re-post it?

Rich R.
05-14-2003, 09:49 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Anonamus:</font><hr> For some reason I'm not seeing Popcorn's reply. Was it deleted? Can someone re-post it? <hr /></blockquote>
I know it was here before, but I don't see it now either. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Cueless Joey
05-14-2003, 10:38 AM
Popcorn must have deleted it and unchecked the edit box.
He might be pulling from his trade secret advice. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

griffith_d
05-14-2003, 10:42 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Anonamus:</font><hr> I've been playing 1 pocket with this group for a couple of years. One of the guys has a collection of high end cues that he brings with him and lets me play with anyone I want. Once I pick out a cue I will play with it for 5 to 6 hours so I'm definitely getting a feel for it.

I've played with 4 different Black Boars, Southwest, Joel Hercek, Thomas Wayne, Phillippi, Frey, Scruggs, Joss, Guffey, Palmer, Robinson, McDaniels and probably some others.

The cues I like the best are the Black Boars but they are a bit too flexible in the shaft. The cue I play the best with is the Robinson ES61. It feels balanced in my hand and I make cut shots much more consistently with it. Since it is such a stiff playing cue I have to stoke it properly to get the ball to dance, but when I do the ball responds beautifully. It's not like a Meucci where you can load up the shaft and spin the ball like crazy. When I go back to my Schon, it doesn't feel right and I'm not as consistent.

The problem I have is I have not heard or read anything good about the Robinson. No one likes the metal on metal joint because it hits stiff, not to mention the shaft is 13 1/2". So, I probably will find it next to impossible to sell if I decide I don't want it anymore.

I'm not going to mention the price because we haven't decided on one yet, but I will tell you it is pricey. Especially compared to some other better known and more sought after cues. In fact, I feel the cue is over priced right from Robinson himself.

So, do I pay the money and forget about resale because of the way I play with it, or do I pass and keep looking for something less expensive and more popular? <hr /></blockquote>

This Robinson cue is just about my favorite cue I have ever seen:

http://www.robinsoncues.com/catalog/c30.html

I almost bought it and I email Robinson and he said it was $3200,.....a little much for me. But it is a beautiful cue,...as I am a Cocobolaholic.

Griff

eg8r
05-14-2003, 10:54 AM
[ QUOTE ]
The problem I have is I have not heard or read anything good about the Robinson. No one likes the metal on metal joint because it hits stiff, not to mention the shaft is 13 1/2". So, I probably will find it next to impossible to sell if I decide I don't want it anymore.
<hr /></blockquote> If you are buying the cue because you like the way it plays and feels, why worry about "if you can sell it"? If you like it would you not keep it?
[ QUOTE ]
In fact, I feel the cue is over priced right from Robinson himself. <hr /></blockquote> This reminds of a story. There was a young kid in the ph and he wanted to learn to make custom cues from a local cue maker. The cue maker told him that at that point he did not have the time to bring on an apprentice. After all this, the young kid then goes on to tell that guy that he charges too much for his cues. The older man said, "You know it is funny, you know nothing about making cues yet you are sitting here trying to put a price on my skill, time and effort in making a cue." I did not put that story in there to say you know nothing about cue making, but I do think it is hard for an outsider to put a price on someone elses custom work.

Good luck on your decision and let us know what you decided to do.

eg8r

WesK
05-14-2003, 11:56 AM
The way that you describe that Robinson hitting is/are the exact same reason(s) that I have been playing with my Schuler lately.

I am using what is supposed to be an "American" taper shaft (I also have a "Professional" taper shaft). It is quite stiff with a nice firm hit.

The shaft is a little bit longer than usual (29 1/2 inch), 13 mm, with a very short (1/2-inch) ferrule, and weighs 4.2 oz. I put a Talisman XH Pro on it and it works like a dream.

I'll let you shoot some with it tonight if you like.

wes

Anonamus
05-14-2003, 12:04 PM
I get your point about putting a price on the skill that goes into a cue, and you're right, I know nothing about what it takes to build a cue. What I meant by being overpriced was that there are more desirable cues like Southwest, Black Boar and Joel Hercek that you have to get on a 5 year waiting list if you buy new and can pick them up cheaper than a Robinson if you buy used. Plus, from what I've seen on the internet it seems like the asking price has more to do with the cue maker's reputation than the amount of work that goes into it.

I talked to Robinson via e-mail and he said he could have it ready in 3 weeks. That tells me he doesn't have people lining up to buy his cues like most other cue makers do. And why do I care about resale? Because I don't want to pay more than it's worth on the market and one day I might find a cue that plays even better.

Anonamus
05-14-2003, 12:12 PM
Griffith_d,

I e-mailed Robinson and got prices on the ES61 and the C30. He replied with a picture of the new C30 design and a price of $3,200 for the ES61 and $2,400 for the C30.

$2,400 is not a bad price for the cocabola cue and it's a good looking cue as well. I really like the way the points are outlined in silver. Put the same spear points as the ES61 and a leather wrap and you would have a beautiful cue.

Anonamus
05-14-2003, 12:14 PM
Now Wes, how would you know who I am? I'm suppose to be anonamus. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

WesK
05-14-2003, 01:35 PM
The way you spell?

eg8r
05-14-2003, 01:54 PM
Well, no matter what happens you will always find another better hitting cue somewhere down the road. Grab the one you like the best and quit looking for something else. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

UWPoolGod
05-14-2003, 02:00 PM
no matter what happens you will always find another better hitting cue somewhere down the road. Grab the one you like the best and quit looking for something else. &lt;---eg8r

That is me right now. I want my custom cue that is being built right now, but I still head to eBay to click through all of the cues to check them out. So some I like, but wouldn't buy because one is on the way.

Todd

charlieb
05-15-2003, 12:58 AM
Were those pantagraph points?

Anonamus
05-15-2003, 05:41 AM
Yes. What do you know about pantograph work? Is that similiar to CNC?

WesK
05-15-2003, 06:21 AM
A pantograph is a device used to duplicate things (commonly signatures).

It consists of a set of arms that roughly form a parallelogram.

In one corner is a stylus (used to trace a pattern) in the opposite corner is a tool (pen, cutter, etc.) that will creat the copy.

By changing the dementions of the arms it is possible to have the pantograph create the copy either the same size as the original or at a fixed scale relative to the original.

It is not really like a CNC machine at all since it is controlled by hand and not numbers. CNC = Computer Numerically Controlled.

Whereas a pantograph operator would use his hands to create a copy, the CNC operator loads "numbers" in to the CNC enabled device (in this case likely to be a milling machine). The CNC portion of the system would then use the "numbers" to control the device and perform some operation (in this case, cut a point, an inlay mortise, etc.).

In one sense they are similar in that the goal of either system is to repeatedly create similar items.

wes

Ralph S.
05-15-2003, 06:32 AM
Thanks Wes. I learned a few things I was a little foggy on myself. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif Just goes to show you learn something new every day. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

griffith_d
05-15-2003, 06:46 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Anonamus:</font><hr> Griffith_d,

I e-mailed Robinson and got prices on the ES61 and the C30. He replied with a picture of the new C30 design and a price of $3,200 for the ES61 and $2,400 for the C30.

$2,400 is not a bad price for the cocabola cue and it's a good looking cue as well. I really like the way the points are outlined in silver. Put the same spear points as the ES61 and a leather wrap and you would have a beautiful cue. <hr /></blockquote>

Yes, I think you are right,...it must have been $2400 for the C30. I also do like the C61.

The joint on the Robinson's looks a little weird and seems to be only on his cues. I thought I saw it a long time ago on a cheap cue,...but his cues really look nice.

If I win the lottery, I think I will buy one,...of course, I might buy one of each from all the custom cuemakers if I win $30m.

Griff