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Yuppie
05-14-2003, 11:00 AM
So what exactly is deflection?

I was reading all the discussions about pred shafts and the lack of deflection seems to be the selling point. Even grady matthews mentions this in his discussion boards.

I thought about getting one, but decided the price of the shaft is more than I bought my cue. No dice!

Cueless Joey
05-14-2003, 11:08 AM
My opinion is, if you don't know what deflection is, you have no need for the Predator shaft.
But, deflection is really cueball squirt. If you hit cueball to the left, it will squirt to the right instead of going on a straight line.

Yuppie
05-14-2003, 11:12 AM
I guess I did know what that was. clarification is always good though.

So basically, no need to adjust when using english? Sounds great! I suppose every new player might want to take advantage of something like this. Learn to play without deflection from the git go.

Tom_In_Cincy
05-14-2003, 11:19 AM
Predator doesn't claim to have ZERO deflection.. only the lowest.

You still have make aim adjustments to offset the 'squirt' of the cue ball, when using side hits. Its just that these adjustments are not as big as the non-Predator shafts. Either way, you have to learn how much to adjust.

Deeman
05-14-2003, 11:38 AM
Yuppee,

I don't think anyone intended for you to think a Predator or any other shaft eliminates deflection. Some do reduce it to a great degree but physics makes it happen even with the best of designs. I have a hard time hitting the Predator shafts I have as I have been used to basically the same deflection for 35 years or so and have not been able to adjust my compensation accurately. I may try again someday but I really think it just doesn't make that much difference in most player's games.

We often hear form people who are admittedly, skill levels 2's or 4's and they discuss spin, deflection, squirt, etc. but I kinda feel like, if they are at such a beginning level they might do better to learn to aim and stroke center ball hits for a while before worrying so much about $3,000 cues, advanced shafts and jump shots.

Here is my crumudgeon kicking in but, when I was young, a player with a custom made or even high end production cue was most likely a "player". (If you don't know what a Player is, maybe this won't make sense) Now, we see people who can't get out from the 6 ball with $300 cases, $2,500 cues and all manner of break/jump sticks, etc. Hey, nothing wrong with that, if you can afford it I guess. That $300 might get you a day with someone like Scott Lee or another good instructer. I hear people say how expensive instruction is. I think it's dirt cheap when compared to someone who might make little more than minimum wage buying what was formerly considered Pro level equipment. Again, it's not our business how someone spends their money.

Just a proposition or maybe a question for you (this is not saying you are in the aforementioned category). If you are a beginner (SL-2~5) and go into a pool hall. If you pull out a custom cue that sparkles out of an expensive case, don't you feel a little funny not being able to run balls. I don't know! I just think I would feel strange to have such expensive equipment, then not be able to perform at a high level.
O.K. I'll crawl back into my hole and wait for mortar fire.

Dee

pooltchr
05-14-2003, 11:49 AM
Dee,
I hate to admit but I must agree that in some cases, it seems some beginners have their priorities a bit mixed. Before you spend all the money on toys and gadgets and equipment, most would be well served to get a good instructor and learn the game.

bluewolf
05-14-2003, 01:25 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> Dee,
I hate to admit but I must agree that in some cases, it seems some beginners have their priorities a bit mixed. Before you spend all the money on toys and gadgets and equipment, most would be well served to get a good instructor and learn the game. <hr /></blockquote>

I agree. i think a beginner ie less than a five looks dumb with expensive equipment. That was one reason I decided not to get that $400 dollar whitten case i wanted. When I go into the ph, i have two inexpensive sticks and one is a sneaky pete and a used leather instroke I bought off of somebody.

I had a pred bk. I dont know if it because i am a begginer but I just gave it to my husband and said my other sticks break fine.

Laura

Wally_in_Cincy
05-14-2003, 01:40 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman:</font><hr>
...That $300 might get you a day with someone like Scott Lee or another good instructer. I hear people say how expensive instruction is. I think it's dirt cheap when compared to someone who might make little more than minimum wage buying what was formerly considered Pro level equipment....

<font color="blue">Well said. </font color>

..If you are a beginner (SL-2~5) and go into a pool hall. If you pull out a custom cue that sparkles out of an expensive case, don't you feel a little funny not being able to run balls.

<font color="blue">Well yes as a matter of fact I do. But the guy that sold me my fancy cue said it was a "magic" cue and if I used it I could beat Tom_in_Cincy by 50 balls /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif</font color>
<hr /></blockquote>

Deeman
05-14-2003, 02:02 PM
[ ..If you are a beginner (SL-2~5) and go into a pool hall. If you pull out a custom cue that sparkles out of an expensive case, don't you feel a little funny not being able to run balls.

<font color="blue">Well yes as a matter of fact I do. But the guy that sold me my fancy cue said it was a "magic" cue and if I used it I could beat Tom_in_Cincy by 50 balls /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif</font color>
<hr /></blockquote> <hr /></blockquote>


Wally,

I sense a Battle Royal in addition to the CCB tournament. Maybe you can challenge Tom to a 14.1 match and I'll challenge 9 ball Girl to a mud wrestling contest as well /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif. By the way, I think the same guy who sold you that stick sold me one about 30 years ago. Mine didn't work either!!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

heater451
05-14-2003, 05:54 PM
Since no one else had brought it up yet. . . .

Although the other posts are correct, in telling you that "squirt" is really what you're asking about, I wanted to go ahead and contrast the terms for you:

"Squirt" is the movement of the cue ball off of the initial shot path, due to the off-center strike of the cue tip. (If you apply left english, the ball will squirt to the right.)

"Deflection" is the movement of the tip and shaft, off of it's centerline (during the cue ball strike), again, due to the off-center strike on the ball. That is, the tip/shaft deflect away from the ball.

Now, many people will still call the cue ball movement "deflection", but some of us prefer the separate terms, so that we "speak the same language".

Also, I believe that the Predator shafts are supposed to limit squirt, by reducing deflection!

~~stopping, so that someone (Fred) can chime in with the "low end-mass" bit. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif



=============================

Rod
05-14-2003, 05:55 PM
Squirt/deflection exists. Just how much I think is our own perception. By that I mean how we aim or view the shot. Some people have to make a large compensation, or at least that is what they say. While another will say they make little adjustment for the same shot. Somewhere in here is a missing link.

I think it is our perception and aim, combined with bridge length and stroke technique. Good fundamentals and a well executed stroke will go a long way using english or any shot for that matter. I'm not saying Pred may not help but without the above it won't make that much of difference. You might not miss as far, but a miss is still a miss. LOL For those that are making more balls however, thats great. If we believe in any product enough that certainly is a plus. It doesn't have to be Pred though. Some people may buy a new cue and play better. Was it the cue or was it the good feeling from owning a new product? We can believe in anything but when we believe in ourselves is when the game really starts kicking in. I believe that is called confidence. When were confident everything starts getting a whole bunch smoother and uncomplicated.

If you have the money and choose to experiment that is ok. If your looking for a big improvement in your game though I think your looking in the wrong area. Lessons for about the same amount of money may prove far more valuable. JMO

Rod

05-15-2003, 03:49 PM
Yet another thought on this. Predator or not, new players probably know they shouldn't be blazing away with english whenever they like, but should be restricting it to reasonably short shots probably hit moderate to soft. In those cases, deflection is minimized, while throw is maximized ... that's where the biggest aim adjustment needs to be made, and a Predator can't change that.

SPetty
05-16-2003, 02:44 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote heater451:</font><hr> "Squirt" is the movement of the cue ball off of the initial shot path, due to the off-center strike of the cue tip. (If you apply left english, the ball will squirt to the right.)

"Deflection" is the movement of the tip and shaft, off of it's centerline (during the cue ball strike), again, due to the off-center strike on the ball. That is, the tip/shaft deflect away from the ball.

Also, I believe that the Predator shafts are supposed to limit squirt, by reducing deflection!

<hr /></blockquote>Hi heater451,

I think you said it almost right, but based on your definitions, I think it would be more correct to say that the Predator shafts are supposed to limit squirt by increasing deflection!

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote from the Predator web site:</font><hr>Predators ferrule (Pat. 5725437) and internal bore (Pat. 6162128) reduce the shafts tendency to buckle on impact and allow the cue ball to push the shaft aside instead of the shaft pushing the cue ball off line.<hr /></blockquote>