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bluewolf
05-14-2003, 02:36 PM
When someone here says they are sl6, 7 or whatever, is it a 9ball sl or an 8ball sl?

Something else I would like to know. Since 9ball goes 1-9 and 8ball is 2-7, are the numbers equivalent or are there just smaller increments in 9ball?

Laura

KerryM
05-14-2003, 02:57 PM
Laura,
I have played APA 8-Ball for about 5 years or so. I recently started playing 9-Ball too, for about 1 year. I have about 25 matches. I think that the skill levels are really specific to each game. I think they are roughly equivalent, but they mean different things. The 8-Ball skill level tells you more about the person's pattern play, strategy etc. The 9-ball skill level tells you about their position skills and runout ability. Obviously all of these qualities are present in both games, I'm just saying which ones are emphasized in each. I think the 7 ranking counts for a little more in 8 ball than in 9 ball. However, in 8-ball there is no limit to how good you can be, and still be ranked only a 7. I play in a "double jeopardy" league, in which we play 8 ball and 9 ball at the same time on two separate tables-like two totally separate matches, but with the same two teams. This gives me a good perspective on how the SL's differ. Let's say I'm going to play a 6 in 9 ball. I would be more nervous if he/she were a 7 in 8-ball than if they were a 6. This is because I think you really have to know how to play to be a 7--you have to play smart. On the other hand, if I play a 7 in 8 ball who is a 7 in 9 ball, I think to myself that he might not be that great of a 7, since he doesn't have the runout power to be an 8 or 9 in 9-ball. I am a 7 in 8-ball and an 8 in 9-ball. I would say I am a strong 7 in 8-ball, and a so so 8 in 9-ball. I would consider myself a "B" player. There are 7's in 8-ball who are C players, and 7's who are A players. If an A player were to play a C player even in 9 ball, it would be a slaughter. That is why the 9 ball league has those extra levels at the very top. Similarly, on the very bottom, you could have a male 3 who shoots solid and might be a 3 in 9 ball. Though this same guy might just be a decent shotmaker and not play position at all. I have a girl on my team who is a solid 3 in 8 ball, but she just plays good strategy and sequences. She would be lost in 9 ball, and would have to be a 2. I know a 2 in 8 ball who just can't make 2 balls in a row. She should be less than a 2 in 8-ball, but it doesn't go that low. In 9-ball, she is a 1 and does well. The same thing holds true, that on the bottom end of the spectrum, sometimes position skills can be so weak (and it is often more important in 9-ball) that there needs to be extra room in the SL's. I think through the middle range, the SL's will be roughly equal, give or take 1.

Kerry

05-14-2003, 03:54 PM
I know in 8 ball your skill level is determined by your innings at the table but how is it determined in 9 ball?

bluewolf
05-14-2003, 04:55 PM
I guess I was curious about that too. In 8ball you have more balls to get around for position. You appear to have choices in terms of what balls to hit next that you dont have in 9ball but if the person wants to hit the 'right' ball, there arent as much choices as it seems.

In 9ball, it seems that a person thinks 3 balls ahead, not sure about 8ball, but I do try to think 3 balls ahead in 8ball and also what ball to get on before the 8.

I have not played 9 ball hardly at all. We got out the apa guidelines. The league rep said I would start as a two in 9ball. So anyway I had to hit in 19 balls before ww hit in 51 or so as a seven. I got my 19 and he had 46, because I was hitting the long shots. This would never happen in 8ball. In a 7-2 race with a good seven, I would get creamed. I think that the top sevens at our league that play 9ball are 8s and they would have had to get in even more balls before I got 19.

So, it just does not make sense to me.Especially APA style where you can win without getting in the 9.

Laura

bluewolf
05-14-2003, 05:19 PM
Post deleted by bluewolf

Perk
05-15-2003, 05:14 AM
I have only played 9ball one time in APA as a Sub. They ranked me as a 5 to start, so I snuck in. Well, I had to go to 31 balls (give or take one), and I beat the other legite 5 that I was playing 31-0/4 innings. It was kinda fun, but they had only one player at as a sl6, and he had already played by the time I got to play. So being under ranked, against a lesser opponent, it wasnt really any challenge. I would be classifyed in 8ball as a SL7, and according to other friends that play, I would probably be an 8 in 9ball in the black tier division.

<--gonna stick to my 8ball league, and continue playing in 9ball tourneys.

bluewolf
05-15-2003, 05:16 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr>

I have not played 9 ball hardly at all. We got out the apa guidelines. The league rep said I would start as a two in 9ball. So anyway I had to hit in 19 balls before ww hit in 51 or so as a seven. I got my 19 and he had 46, because I was hitting the long shots. This would never happen in 8ball. In a 7-2 race with a good seven, I would get creamed. I think that the top sevens at our league that play 9ball are 8s and they would have had to get in even more balls before I got 19.

Laura <hr /></blockquote>

WW told me not to tell our score. I think his motive was different than mine.

I start a new league on monday. Pretty excited and am curious as to which game is harder.

Laura

pooltchr
05-15-2003, 06:41 AM
Skill levels are only a way to try to keep parity in the league. They seem to work better in 9-ball than in 8-ball around here. My question regarding SL is this: The highest rank possible in 8 ball is a seven. The highest in 9-ball is a nine. Why is the same limit in place for both games? If the SL tops out higher, why don't they raise the 23 rule to, say, a 25 rule for 9-ball?

bluewolf
05-15-2003, 10:06 AM
Great point about having a 25 rule.

But really, once a person reaches a certain level, unless they just want to have fun, hasnt league play fullfilled its purpose? Does any of that 23 pt rule, 25 pt rule, sl x, y or z, does it really matter any more?

This is where my husband and I disagree. I think apa is to get experience in competition, learn some skills along the way and enjoy seeing your friends.

I wanted to be in one league but he did not think there were enough teams to have a chance to get to the big tournie leading to vegas.

APA to me is to learn things including how to focus in competition and other mental skills, for him it is getting in a big tournament and having a change to get money.

Two differnt people, two different perspectives.

Laura

bluewolf
05-15-2003, 10:13 AM
I asked the numbers out of curiosity, because I was going to be playing apa nineball so that it would help me to learn shape, not knowing if I would like it or not but spec I would.


It is unfortunate that we must put these numbers on each other. In china, after a karate tournament, there are no trophies, no money won, no nastiness. Rverybody just sits down and has tea.

SL numbers are for convenience so that beginners will not be discouraged. It is all too easy to fall into a trap, as I did for awhile, to let the sl define us and to keep us from being what we really are with no pride, no shame, just being and enjoying the competition and the game.

Laura

L.S. Dennis
05-15-2003, 11:24 AM
I'm not sure what kind of 9-ball this is but the most common form of 9-ball at the lower levels is the handicap system in determining different skill levels. Here on the west coast the most popular system is the USPPA. You can find out more about it at www.usppa.com. (http://www.usppa.com.)

bluewolf
05-15-2003, 11:52 AM
This was the APA way. Each ball counts one pt, the nine two points. Winning is determined by acquiring a certain number of points relative to one's handicap. In other words, it is possible to win without ever sinking the nine.

For instance a two vs a seven. The two has to sink 19 balls or earn 19 points before the seven gets 51(or is it 55) points.

One point that I was making was that I beat my apa7 hubbie this way on our pool table. In 8ball, the only way I can beat him is if he plays one handed, and even then he often wins. In a 7-2 race in 8ball in a real match, no way unless the 7 scrathed twice, had an early 8 or sunk the 8 on the break with a scratch.

It just seemed based on my experimentation that apa 9ball is fairer to the beginner. APA 8 ball makes it hard for a two to win against anybody but a two, unless it is against a cruddy three.Even in a 4-2 race with a sl4, it is very difficult because the 4 is so much better.(if they are typical of their sl) I wonder also if apa 9ball is less fair to an advanced player. Look at this scenario.

To win, all I would have to do is sink 3 balls per rack out of 9. I have a good 9ball break.I break and one or two balls go down typically, that just leaves 1-2 points on an average I have to get per rack to win. If I like some decent twos can sink long shots and dont mind running up and down the table to sink them, it is very easy to get 19 points.

These are things I am wondering about and am talking to the 9ball league rep tonight. I want to get better at shape and that is why I want to play nine ball. Just using the system to get something I want.

But then like many things, it is possible to start with one motive and end up another way. I might find I really like 9ball.

I was curious though about the difference between say a sl5 in 8ball and a sl5 in 9ball. When someone describes their skills using those numbers, i wanted to know if there was a difference and what they were talking about.

The very skilled gentleman took a lot of time to explain this and explained it very well. That was very nice of him.

Not sure about your rules but rather like the way the pros play it.The APA way sounds kind of fun though /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Laura

Rod
05-15-2003, 12:58 PM
[ QUOTE ]
To win, all I would have to do is sink 3 balls per rack out of 9. I have a good 9ball break.I break and one or two balls go down typically, that just leaves 1-2 points on an average I have to get per rack to win. If I like some decent twos can sink long shots and dont mind running up and down the table to sink them, it is very easy to get 19 points.
<hr /></blockquote>

LOL It's all relevant. A smart 9 ball player isn't going to let you see the ball. You'll be kicking at everything. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Or you will be left very tough. It's not so different than 8 ball except you have just one object ball. That plus a lower rated player has great difficulty moving the c/b around the table. If you play a 5 it is still relevant because there is less of a spot. It's an odd way of playing 9 ball but it seems reasonably fair to me.

Is this winner breaks?

Rod

L.S. Dennis
05-15-2003, 01:04 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr> Not sure about your rules but rather like the way the pros play it.The APA way sounds kind of fun though /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Laura <hr /></blockquote>

Most handicap systems (including the USPPA use the exact same rules that the pros use. The only difference is that the pros play with no spots or open tournaments.

The most pure form of 9-ball and the rules that I would like to see adopted would be "Grady's Rules" which were posted here by Grady himself sometime ago!

Dennis