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Variations of this sort of scenero often seem to come up in 8-ball matches. Just curious as to the concensus of how individuals here would deal with it and why. You should win from here, you've got stripes... and it's your shot.
05-16-2003, 08:14 PM
Do this and he loses no mater what he does.
From here you are in complete control. A ball on both sides and a easy hit or hook for the kill.
I'd keep my ball right there with the c/b stopping at B. Depending on how much he bumps the nine determines what I do next. He has to hit the 8 on the left side or take an intentional. From there you can hook him with the 9 if necessary/possible. It also leaves me a three rail to come around for a break out. Not that I would shoot it for sure but it's there. That 8 ball can bank across side off the 9 even from up table but not from position B. Desparate people may do desprate things. LOL The important thing is don't leave a straight shot into the 8 and leave the 13 on the end rail or a bad position. The game could change in a heart beat to his favor. That would be my immediate plan.
05-16-2003, 09:59 PM
Been there lots of times... only I was the one shooting at the 8 ball.. /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
Safety play in 8 ball becomes essential to wining only when your opponent has made a mistake and gets lucky(?) and leaves a cluster like is described. (not dealing with the cluster sooner) or missing the 8 ball and leaving it in a cluster.
I like Rod's suggestion most (both replies are good) because it make the opponent shot to break up the cluster and leaves the stripe down table for a easy shot afterwards.
I would attempt Rod's option, because while a slightly more difficult shot, your going to make your opponent deal with the rail while shooting at that 8. Not a huge deal, but just something else for him to be thinking about.
Although, from all the safety hating that was going on in my thread I'm surprised someone hasn't chimed in that they'd pocket the 13 and draw the cue ball back to try and break out the 9 ball /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Sorry, that was said firmly toungue in cheek. No matter HOW smooth you stroke or how well you shoot, the safety HAS to be the better shot here.
05-17-2003, 12:47 AM
I personally don't like this option, but don't immediately see anything better. I would shoot the 13 but not make it, trying to leave it near the corner pocket, and leave the cueball up table, somewhere in the area where the 13 was. I hate to shoot this type of safety. This gives him the ball back, and put's him in control. I usually want them to at least be kicking at the ball. When you give someone the opportunity to hit their ball, they sometimes come up with a miracle shot or just plain get lucky on you.
05-17-2003, 07:02 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> I'd keep my ball right there with the c/b stopping at B. Depending on how much he bumps the nine determines what I do next. He has to hit the 8 on the left side or take an intentional. From there you can hook him with the 9 if necessary/possible. It also leaves me a three rail to come around for a break out. Not that I would shoot it for sure but it's there. That 8 ball can bank across side off the 9 even from up table but not from position B. Desparate people may do desprate things. LOL The important thing is don't leave a straight shot into the 8 and leave the 13 on the end rail or a bad position. The game could change in a heart beat to his favor. That would be my immediate plan.
While this shot gets the result I would look for there is the possibility that you could hit the stripe poorly and leave it out of play on the short rail. I would simply do this:
I assume the stripe by the eight is frozen...I'm just softly rolling the stripe over to the long rail in front of the corner pocket and hopefully leaving a look at the eight so my opponent, if he decides to,
will attempt to get a legal hit there by separating the 8 & 9. How well he hits this shot would determine what I do next. Tough situation for the guy on the eight but he could still make a shotter out of you with a soft legal hit on the eight.
There's no three foul rule so he's under no obligation to hit the 8. I hit the 13 toward the foot of the table into the rack area leaving the cue ball near the head of the table. He is going to give me ball in hand and I'm in position for an easy break shot.
He now has to move the 13 someplace where I no longer have an easy break but chances are with BIH I still get a break shot or I do it again until I do get a good break shot.
He or I can pocket the 13 and then it's probably a stalemate.
Just another thought... how might it / or not, change your strategy if the 8 & 9 were in reversed positions?
I had the same thoughts Cheese. If you look at the 13 ball angle though you can't get the c/b to the rail hitting it that full. I didn't like hitting it that full it only leaves the 13 to make rail contact. Another thought hitting it more full, what if the c/b rolls off a little and you make the 13. One more I consider is I don't want it that close to the pocket. I think a lot. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I'd make the 13, draw the c/b about 3' and bump the 9 moving the 8, 4 or 5 inches. I need the c/b back at a decent angle so I can hit slightly to the right side of the 9, trying not to leave him a return 1 or two rail across side. My concern is definately getting the c/b back to point A or a little farther is ok to. I really like this play.
05-18-2003, 02:52 AM
Rod, I thought about the same shot on the first scenerio, but on most of the tables I play on, it's not possible. On a good table with clean balls and good cloth, it's possible, but still requires a great deal of precision. The new poolhall here has good tables and good cloth. I may have to set this shot up and see if I can pull it off. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Rod... Seeing players in this type of situation, snatch defeat from the jaws of victory by being over agressive, has always been one of my pet peeves. For me I would try to play the shot virtually the same in either scenerio. The main priority for me would be to maximizes my potential options by leaving the 13 relatively close to the pocket so that no matter how lucky my opponent was in their hit on the 8 they would be very unlikely to leave me tough on both balls.
I don't think there's any way for it to become a stalemate,much less a loss, as long as I avoid cutting my options in 1/2 by sinking the 13 first. The 13 remains my safety net should my opponent get lucky. If my opponent should attempt to avoid defeat by sinking my 13 and leaving me BIH (as Ken suggests) I'm confident with BIH I could play a lock tight safety freezing the cueball on the 9 and creating some distance between the 9 & 8. However, very strange things sometimes "do" happen, leaving you with nothing more than to tip your hat to your opponent or the pool gods:p At any rate I would have felt I had done everything I could to maintain control of the situation. ...Bob
Different strokes for different people. I agree with the first situation. Well possibly except for the 9. I assume the 9 is frozen on the rail and the 8 frozen to the 9. There is a foul comming if the c/b doesn't get a rail. On the other hand hit it a fraction to hard and a big sell out comming there, it's testy.
The second situation, I like the shot and believe I can burn them on the 8 big time. I'd rather not wait or be put into those testy situations or have a ball roll funny. Others may choose to pass, I play what I'm capable of with the least risk.
Just a note the second situation has the 8 ball off the rail, that makes a difference. If it was frozen then I "might" re-think my strategy.
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> I play what I'm capable of with the least risk. <hr /></blockquote>
Rod...I totally agree, you have to go with what you know to be your strengths. Yes: in each instance one ball is frozen to the rail with both balls also frozen to each other. I should have made that clear in my first post. Whenever I percieve I'm in a similar controlling position and have balls tied up wtih my opponent, unless I'm very confident of the breakout it's better to let them make the first mistake. I suppose a lot of that sort of thinking comes from my snooker background. I love it when I can run out but don't shy away from those chess like safety matches. In their own way they can lead towards some very agressive/creative play. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif ...Bob
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