View Full Version : women playing with the men
05-22-2003, 06:00 PM
well the news says Annika Sorenstam shot one over for todays first round while the current leader is 5 under(others are still on the course?)
with all the additional hype and unfamilar stress she's probably built up,she has held up big time no matter what happens tomorrow.
what a great showing and what a great story ... the media attention has been unbelievable and probably garnered more press than ever imagined.have the sponsors and the tournament the exposure they were seeking?i'd say so
now i just wonder if the WPBA has taken notice.would a woman pool player merit as much attention as this particular golfer?
of course not, at least not at this moment(wishful thinking) ... but what if the media were remotely interested in the women competing with the men angle?
strike while the iron is hot?why not?
this are only my opinions and marketing thoughts of a particular situation that I believe could be beneficial to our fair sport
anything to add ... or maybe I'm totally off base?
there would be no interest, even playing the women in a man's world angle, because the general public doesn't watch pool. you can't drum up interest where there is none.
05-22-2003, 07:34 PM
hey,,, Karen Corr plays on the Joss tour and she won an event this year beating MR REMPE twice in the finals to do it. If they have the talent.. then go for it
05-22-2003, 08:24 PM
I agree, if the women want to play with the men there should be nothing preventing them from doing so, I think it would make for some interesting matchups. JMO
05-22-2003, 08:47 PM
I need a spell check with some basic grammar work after reading my initial post /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif
but that would be the idea, basically 'to drum up interest'.
to immediately say there would be 'no interest' is kind of harsh imo /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif
guess I'm a bit more optimistic than most.
I would just like to see the WPBA take a closer look at their players competing in 'open' events and/or scheduling their events to conflict with 'open' events
The simple reason women have their own tours is that they can't do well enough against the men. It's great fun to see the best female golfer in 50 years come along and, on a carefully selected course, see what she can do against the men. It's great press and a lot of fun but it seems that she may not make the cut or else be at the very bottom of the field. She will be playing with guys who next year will either have imporved a lot or else they will be next years caddies. The guys that don't improve can't play with the men either and they will be gone next year.
The funny thing is that there are activities where the women can compete with the men. Show jumping, horse racing, auto racing, darts, marksmanship and, yes, pool. This would be a great opportunity for someone to pick up the ball and say "Forget Sorenstam. We have women in the WPBA who can play with the top men" and set up a series of challenge matches.
When Billy Jean played Bobby that poor old man had to run around the doubles court while she could just stand still in the regulation singles court. It was clearly unfair. His wheels were gone. She should have given him the spot. They lost a great opportunity to play at least even. Look at the publicity that got and it was a farce running that poor senior citizen around like that. She wouldn't even let him serve when he wanted to. She needed time to rest between points.
05-23-2003, 06:38 AM
I don't find it that interesting to see a woman playing against men in golf. It seem like a publicity stunt by the promoters. For one thing, in golf you don't play against your opponent, you play the course. There is no mystery about what the outcome will be, it is all numbers and somewhat predictable. She could go out there and play by herself and try to beat their scores on the course, if she just wanted to prove some point. The public I think is pretty easily taken by this stuff. However, with pool, tennis, boxing, chess and so on, the players interact and have a direct effect on each others performance, beyond the physiological. A pool match is a more valid competition if you want to mix the sexes
Chris in NC
05-23-2003, 06:43 AM
This is an interesting thread. Certainly Annika's performance likely has Karen and possibly Allison both at least thinking of what it would be like for them to play in a tourney like the fall U.S. Open 9-ball tourney in Chesapeake, and how they might fair? Certainly it would draw increased media attention - at least in the pool world. You'd think a smart promoter like Barry Behrman might extend an invitation to them both - including an offer to pay their entry fees.
IMO, 3-4 years ago Allison's pool 9-ball game was at virtuall
y the same point that Annika's golf game is now. They both had clearly established themselves as dominant players on their respective women's tours and had little else to prove.
Annika has chosen to push her limits and give it a shot at the next level, and for that she should be greatly admired. I personally don't think she's going to be satisfied just to have played in this one men's tourney, as she says. I believe she'd love nothing more (if allowed to) to try to qualify for the PGA tour and play more tournaments with the men - and push herself to her absolute limits. Of course that creates big problems and conflicts for her support and participation in the women's tour, and therein lies the biggest dilemma that may prevent her from giving it a go.
Allison made the choice a few years ago not to attempt to press the limits of her playing potential by playing with the men. Although a decision that I respect and understand, as a friend and fan I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a little dissappointed considering her enormous natural gift for the game.
Allison is so gifted and fundamentally sound that she can get away with never picking up a stick or practicing except for a few days before a tourney, and still finish in the top 2 virtually every time. She's still goes through the motions of playing in all the tournaments for the obvious financial reasons to support her lifestyle and to satisfy her sponsors, but clearly does not have the passion and drive to continue to work hard to improve her game that she had up until the past 3-4 years.
Karen is also a great player that could compete on the men's tour (as she has already proven on the Joss tour), but she has to work alot harder than Allison to keep her game at that level. Of the two, based on her participation (and success) on the Joss tour I think it's much more likely we'll see Karen at Chesapeake than Allison.
Obviously all knowledgeable pro pool fans realize it would be highly unlikely either of them could win the US Open 9-ball crown, but unquestionably both of them could very possibly win more matches than they lose and finish in the money - and become far better players for having done it!
05-23-2003, 06:47 AM
I say let them play if they want to. There still should be just men's tournaments and just women's tournaments but also open tournaments for anybody willing to play. It's not who you are that play but how you play. Anyone who doesn't think women can't play as good as the men, haven't watched them play.
You can't win if you can't get to the table.
05-23-2003, 07:07 AM
Regardless what happens, it one of those things that can only be done once and the novelty wares off. Next week, no body will being talking about it. The benefit was the three months or so leading up to this weekend and the attention it gathered. I think pool could get some attention from such a stunt, but I don't know what long lasting effect it would have. Probably not much.
05-23-2003, 07:10 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> I don't find it that interesting to see a woman playing against men in golf. It seem like a publicity stunt by the promoters. For one thing, in golf you don't play against your opponent, you play the course. There is no mystery about what the outcome will be, it is all numbers and somewhat predictable. <hr /></blockquote>
From my point of view, I loved it. But, I represent the smallest of minorities that watch golf. Really watch golf. I've said it here before, that I don't even play golf, but since the 70's when there was only a few round of golf on TV each year, I watched it and was mesmerized. And year after year, I continued and continue to watch. Even today, if the PGA isn't on, I'll watch the LPGA, and even the Seniors. Crazy, for a guy that doesn't even play.
I went to lunch early yesterday just to watch Annika and how she'd do. Every hole was a thrill. Every ball in the fairway, the couple of up and downs, the two or three long puts for par, the hanging balls for birdie... All kinds of lessons were to be learned. The whole thing is her testing herself. Just like an APA SL-7. Since there's an upper limit, an APA SL-7 really needs to go to the next tougher league/tournament just to get a measure of where s/he stands. Or else he doesn't know where he stands. It's a reality check.
In Annika's case, to play a longer course, with pins tucked in corners, with holes that punished a 250 yard drive and rewarded a 280 yard drive, this was a true test of the limits of her ability. A test where we could see where she would "fail" just to get a good check point.
The 13th hole was a great example. Par 4 475ish yds, dogleg left with trees in the crook. That's a par 5 for the women and amateurs. The pro men are taking a 280 yarder over the trees cutting the corner, leaving 150 yds. Annika had to hit a 250 yd down the leg leaving herself a 225 yard 2nd shot to to the green. On her tour, she might do exactly the same thing: fairway wood, run it on the green, putting for eagle. On the PGA, she's not putting for eagle. Result: 15 ft from the cup and a legitimate shot for birdie. Pretty damned impressive considering where she was on the fairway.
So, I found it exciting, fascinating and entertaining. If her nerves didn't get her (she came up short on most of her legitimate birdie attempts), she might have shot a 1 or 2 under. Unlike other viewers, if she doesn't make the cut, I'll still be watching on Sunday.
It's a one time deal, or maybe a once a year deal. Right now, it's exciting.
Fred <~~~ watched Johnny Bench shoot 80's on a Senior PGA event
05-23-2003, 07:26 AM
Is there anything in the US Open rules that says it is a Mens tournament only? I would not want to see the field fill up with a bunch of publicity seeking women, and I could name a few, but the two top women would be nice to see. Especially if they promoted it properly. To say they will probably not win, goes without saying, (You know Tommy Kennedy won, and he may not play better then Fisher, it would be close anyway), but the same could be said for most of the field in general. Let them play, it would be fun. Are you reading this Barry? Could you imagine the possible publicity, if one of them could pull it off. Just like the old US Open straight pool tournament used to have certin invited players, such as the junior champion, how about every year the US Open invite the two top women players to play, why not? I like the idea. It makes it more then just a stunt.
05-23-2003, 07:41 AM
Damn Good Idea, Popcorn!! Why not???
9 Ball Girl
05-23-2003, 08:44 AM
Well, as far as I know, the women and men pros will be playing together in the Big Apple 9 Ball Tournament (http://www.azbilliards.com/2000pressrelease.cfm?id=126) . The matchups will definitely be interesting.
05-23-2003, 06:10 PM
Fred just a little side on this subject when Jean Balukas was playing in the mens Worlds Tournament the TV channels were all over her covering her every move. THEN the idiot men barred her and the TV channels stop covering pool. Annika created the same interest that Jean had generated only at a much greater magnatude. It was the greatest sponsors exemption in golf you could not have paid for the adv that it generated.####
05-26-2003, 06:38 PM
the more I see Corr/Fisher play nineball ,the more I believe they can compete on an even playing field
more than a publicity stunt,the mere fact that they could possibly win more US Open matches than lose as Chris pointed out would be newsworthy in the eyes the non pool playing public imo
let's not even get into if they were able to win it outright /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif whew talk about a resurgence in pool,this would give the color of money the five and out
thanks for the responses
05-27-2003, 11:28 AM
All I have to add is this:
This weekend at the Joss Finals, I watched Karen Corr take # 1 male player Francisco Bustamante to the hill. She ultimately lost 9-8, but I still think it says a lot. She did very well in the tournament.
Perhaps the biggest difference is this: I was pointing out to my friend how Jose Parica looks so relaxed while he's playing that he might fall asleep. I mentioned how he is boring to watch because he never gets too out of line and does things the simplest way. Bustamante plays a much "flashier" game, but still makes it look effortless. My friend mentioned how it looks like Corr has to put in so much effort on every shot and every rack. I guess that level of effort can be tough to maintain?
Oh, one other thing. Corr has improved her break quite a bit. It still isn't super powerful, but she has good control and seems to be giving the balls a decent pop now.
Just my thoughts,
05-27-2003, 09:07 PM
I say yes, as long as they don't toy with us.
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