View Full Version : VNEA question

05-29-2003, 10:53 AM
I play in a VNEA league. My team has been in this local league since its inception in 2000.

We're five good friends who shoot decent pool who decided to shoot in this league to have fun. Over the past three seasons, the number of teams has grown from half a dozen to sixteen. My team has been fortunate enough to win 5 of 7 sessions, earning us two trips to Vegas and one trip to Bahamas.

Last nite, the "VNEA charter member" of the local league (the guy who runs the local vending company and runs the league) gave my team a nice letter, thanking us for all our support, help in starting the league, blah,blah, and inducting us all into the "Hall Of Fame". And then telling us we could not shoot as a team anymore in this league, "due to the dominance" of our team!! And this is a handicapped league!!

Can he do this???


05-29-2003, 11:37 AM
I would think that for any team in any league to dominate so well that the 'league' would re-analyze their own method of issueing handicaps and would raise players accordingly before asking a team to leave. Although I play APA exclusively, I know that from experience that winning teams disappear because too many wins drives up the handicap until you must split up. That's just good pool business. Notice I said "business" which has nothing to do with team friendships and pool strategy.

Bottom line . . . ask the VNEA to raise your handicaps and keep your team in the league if you really want to test your skills.

05-29-2003, 05:52 PM
Handicaps in this VNEA league (and I assume all VNEA leagues) is different than APA.

Each team is five players, playing each of the opposing players one game each, total of five rounds of five games each round, 25 total games in a match. Each game is scored with ten points to the winner of the game, the loser getting a point for each of his balls pocketed. ie - If I win and leave opponent with 4 balls on the table, I win 10-3.

Each player has an average based on his total points divided by his total number of games played.

If my team's five player averages are 9,9,8,8,7 = 41
opponant's are 8,8,7,7,7 = 37 difference of 4 points.

We have to give 4 points each round, 20 points overall.

We have had matches where we had to give as many as 15 points per round! If we won every game 10-7 in the round, we could only tie the round!

Anyway, that is the handicap in the VNEA. Suppose to level the field, which it does to a large degree. We just practice alot and try to step up our game when we have to.

Thanks for any help or sharing of experiences.


Scott Lee
05-29-2003, 06:49 PM
I think the league operator can do just about anything they want to. As you mentioned, the handicap system for VNEA is nothing like APA, and so you and your team members cannot be "raised", as you're already the best players in the league. Having won almost every session since the league was started where you are, has most likely generated negative comments from several other unhappy teams. You mentioned that the league has more than doubled, but is still tiny at 16 teams. Obviously you must live in a small town, and the LO is just trying to keep the league growing. He/She feels like your "dominating" team takes away from anyone else having any chance to win, and wants you to split into two or more new teams, to break up a 'monopoly'. That's really not such a bad idea, except that you five really enjoy playing together, and obviously do well as a team. One suggestion is that the LO set up something where your team can play, but automatically have to give up 20-50 points per match every week. That would seem to make it more difficult for your team to "run over" everybody else. The only other thing is to recruit some new members, and split into two new teams. You are obviously aware that there is NO handicap in the national tournament. It is one of the bizarre things about BCA and VNEA leagues, that use handicaps locally, but not in the national tournaments.

I feel pretty sure that this has come from comments from other teams and team members. It's not likely that he'd do that on his own. Where I live, in Bozeman, MT, we also have a strong VNEA league (80 teams), but the same group of people win every year. There are about 15 people in town, who may switch teams from year to year, but still end up winning all the money, and the trips to Vegas. Everybody sort of bitches, but the LO's don't do anything about it.
I know this is true, because I was one of those "15" for several years in the 80's and early 90's, who kicked ass locally, and then went to Vegas to get beat by the Canadiens! LOL Good luck!

Scott Lee

Ralph S.
05-30-2003, 12:13 AM
I captained a Vnea team. Depending on the size of your location as Scott mentioned, may be the problem. Most charters and LO's have several different formats for their leagues. Master's league being one of them. Quite possibly you and your team may have to step up to a masters league.

The pre-requisites for being in a master league may vary from locale to locale, but should be fairly standard as this is a national pool leauge.

05-30-2003, 06:26 PM
Well, I got a return phone call today from Tom Elum, the president of VNEA national. He was in Vegas at the tourny. Very nice of him to call.

It seems that Mr. Elum has never seen nor read the bylaws. He doesn't think there is anything in the bylaws regarding forcing a team to disband. A copy of the bylaws is only available to a charter holder.

And he has regularly broken up teams in his own league if there too good.

So I guess we're just out of luck. We offered to the LO that if we won a session in the season, we would forfeit 1st to the 2nd place team if we won any other session. We offered to play with the max. handicap. We offered to give up ANY TRIPS WE WON!!?!! No deal.

Interesting that the LO and his boss (the owner's son) play on a team that has never won a session.

hhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmm !!!!

Like I expressed earlier, we are just five good friends who enjoy each others company and shooting pool. If we had known this was a possibilty, we never would have started.

We'll know next time, I guess.

Let the shooter beware!

Mike of the no league shooters.

05-30-2003, 07:30 PM
Bottom line is $$$money$$$
You failed to mention how easy the other teams are.
How close is the 2nd place team to you? If your team were not in the league, would there be a better field for the competition?
Maybe its just time to move on.
Or, maybe its time for the team to split up into 2 teams and recruit other members and see which team is stronger.

The challenge is ahead of you. Either embrace it or move on. How much do you enjoy the competition?

Just my 2

05-31-2003, 08:20 AM
We love the competition! Most of the times we won was by just a few rounds, very close. Couple of times came down to the last round in the last match!

Scuttlebutt I've heard now is that some of the teams have threatened to quit if they didn't break us up. So it is about the money. Interesting that the league has grown from 6 to fifteen, increasing each session. Yes, it is a small league in a small location, but it's all we got!

Like I said, we like the competition, getting a resounding butt whupping in Vegas last two years. No problem. We'd give up the trip, no problem. Give us the max handicap, no problem. When we got into it 3 years ago, I told the guys it wasn't about the trip. It was to shoot other guys in other bars, meet some new faces, drink some beer and have fun. We each looked forward to Tuesday nites. By the way, ages on our team vary from 35 to 52.

Also interesting that every other player from other teams that I've talked to (obviously haven't talked to all of them) says we got a raw deal. hhhhhmmmmmmmm.

There are six bars involved in the league. My bar, (owner doesn't play with us) is considering pulling out of the league, at least next session or 2. Another bar owner down the street is considering same. That would reduce league by 6 teams! Good to have some friends. Just hate to hurt the other teams/players who really do think we got a raw deal.

Anyway, thanks for your comments/support here. I appreciate you letting me vent.

MIke, playing more golf these days.

05-31-2003, 08:28 AM
By the way, new rules for next season: the league is divided into two divsions A & B. This next one kills me. If any team has more than 2 players in the top ten individual standings ranks, after the fifth week, that team is subject to restructuring!!!! He's gonna break you up in the middle of the season !!!!

Now with all this said, I don't want all you guys selling your houses, quitting your jobs and hauling a** to move here and shoot in this league!! lol

So thanks again.