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View Full Version : Lights part of the table, or foreign object?

phil in sofla
06-03-2003, 08:21 PM
In the finals of a local tournament, a player broke the rack violently, and the cue ball jumped up to the light fixture, moved the louvres a little, came back down on the surface of the table and stayed there. He made a ball on that break, and then went on to shoot the next shot.

Balls often leave the table surface, as when they jump onto a rail, but we know if they return to the playing surface, there isn't any penalty. However, if they hit a foreign object, such as a chalk on the rail, and then return to the playing surface, it is a cue ball foul.

So, is the light a foreign object in this sense, meaning if you hit it on the break, you've fouled, even if it returns to the table playing surface? Or is it 'part of the table,' and hitting it with the cue ball is not a foul?

Seems I've always heard it WAS part of the table in this sense, but I'm having a hard time believing that.

Rod
06-03-2003, 08:27 PM
It falls under rule 3.28, a light fixture is not a part of the table. It is a foul and the opponent has BIH.

Rod

L.S. Dennis
06-03-2003, 10:38 PM
I seem to remember reading somewhere (maybe in one of MIke Shamos's colums that the light were in fact part of the playing field and if a ball were to land on the light and not fall down, technically you would have to play it "off the light". Sounds crazy but I'm sure I read that somewhere.

I could be totally wrong about this though so I would stake the morgage on it!

phil in sofla
06-05-2003, 02:12 PM
Thanks for that reference. To be clear, is that a BCA rule you are citing?

If it is a BCA rule, do other bodies follow it as well, and is it a general rule in Texas Express rules?

Ken
06-05-2003, 02:25 PM
3.28 is BCA, same rule in Texas Express:

http://texasexpress.com/rules_sec6.htm

BCA:
3.28 BALLS JUMPED OFF TABLE
Balls coming to rest other than on the bed of the table after a stroke (on the cushion top, rail surface, floor, etc.) are considered jumped balls. Balls may bounce on the cushion tops and rails of the table in play without being jumped balls if they return to the bed of the table under their own power and without touching anything not a part of the table. The table shall consist of the permanent part of the table proper. (Balls that strike or touch anything not a part of the table, such as the light fixture, chalk on the rails and cushion tops, etc., shall be considered jumped balls even though they might return to the bed of the table after contacting items which are not parts of the table proper). In all pocket billiard games, when a stroke results in the cue ball or any object ball being a jumped ball off the table, the stroke is a foul. All jumped object balls are spotted (except in 8 and 9-Ball) when all balls have stopped moving. See specific game rules for putting the cue ball in play after a jumped cue ball foul.

BCA is from the General Rules for Pocket Billiards of the World Pool-Billiard Association:

http://www.wpa-pool.com/rules/rules3.htm

Snooker is diferent.

06-05-2003, 03:13 PM
Talk about shooting lights-out ...

phil in sofla
06-05-2003, 07:41 PM
Thanks for clearing that up entirely.

Odd that the opponent of the guy who hit the lights on his break didn't know this rule, as he is an older gentleman, probably late 50s early 60s, who has a ton of experience, including playing many of the greats when he was a younger man.

But if he knew, he didn't say anything, and since the breaker made a ball, he continued his turn at the table. And of course, once he made his next stroke at a ball, the foul didn't exist anymore.

Fred Agnir
06-06-2003, 07:34 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote phil in sofla:</font><hr>
Odd that the opponent of the guy who hit the lights on his break didn't know this rule, as he is an older gentleman, probably late 50s early 60s, who has a ton of experience, including playing many of the greats when he was a younger man.
<hr /></blockquote>This isn't odd, IMO. Rules change over the years, and hitting the lights is one of them. The General Rules of Billiards (Carom) still allows the hitting of lights, as long as the ball comes to rest on the table. The 1985 BCA rulebook allowed the ball in Pocket Billiards (pool) to hit light fixtures as well, as long as the ball came to rest on the table.

Fred &lt;~~~ doesn't know too many 50 or 60 year olds that know anything about rules