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View Full Version : Say it aint so Sammy!!



Ralph S.
06-04-2003, 07:05 AM
I could not believe my eyes this morning when I read the news. Slammin' Sammy got busted with a corked bat. I want to go on record immediately to say that I believe his explanation that it was his batting practice bats. Other players in the past have done things similar in game and bp.

I must say though that I am disappointed as I am a huge fan of the Chicago Cubs and a huge Sosa fan. According to the news, the umpires confiscated all of his bats, 600 total. I hope when they cut them open for examination that they dont find any cork. That would be good redemption for Sosa and prove it as an honest mistake that he really did grab the wrong bat by accident. What would make the situation even better and funny as hell would be when they have to reimburse him the cost of all those bats. That has to be a tidy sum of money.

Wally_in_Cincy
06-04-2003, 07:47 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ralph S.:</font><hr>

I could not believe my eyes this morning when I read the news. Slammin' Sammy got busted with a corked bat. I want to go on record immediately to say that I believe his explanation that it was his batting practice bats.....

<hr /></blockquote>

/ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Hey Ralph, as Fast Larry would say "knock, knock" /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Sammy got busted. I think it's funny. There's so much cheating in baseball it's hilarious. Remember when Joe Niekro dropped that piece of sandpaper on the mound on live tv and then acted like he had never seen it before? /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Wally~~Sammy fan

Ralph S.
06-04-2003, 07:57 AM
Oh yeah, I remember that Wally. Gaylord Perry was the all-time best at it though. The things he did to a baseball are legendary. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif As for Sosa, I really beleive it was a bp bat. His abilities and power lend credence to that. He got some 'splainin to do though. /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif

eg8r
06-04-2003, 08:00 AM
I totally agree. I do not remember any sort of bad news about Sammy to give me any inclination not to believe him. He has been great for baseball and this surely hurts.

Wow, why in the world would he need to have that many bats for one game. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif (joking)

eg8r &lt;~~Quiet fan of the Cubs

Fran Crimi
06-04-2003, 08:10 AM
From an article:

"Sosa claimed the bat that shattered and contained cork was one he uses to put on home run displays in batting practice."

I agree in that I doubt he'd risk using a corked bat during a game knowing how often these bats break. But anything's possible I guess. I think it does open up a can of worms in that somebody is being intentionally deceived out there, even if it is just during practice. So, who's being deceived and why?

Maybe some big money people sitting in the stands, potential investors, who get invited to watch practice, and the manager tells Sammy to get out there and hit some home runs?

What about all the kids who show up at the ball park to watch their heros practice? What will they think from now on? Is is real or fake?


Fran

Nightstalker
06-04-2003, 08:32 AM
I still think that Sammy is a good man, and I sincerely hope they do not find any more corked bats of the ones they confiscated.

Wally_in_Cincy
06-04-2003, 08:41 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ralph S.:</font><hr> Oh yeah, I remember that Wally. Gaylord Perry was the all-time best at it though. The things he did to a baseball are legendary. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif As for Sosa, I really beleive it was a bp bat. His abilities and power lend credence to that. He got some 'splainin to do though. /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif <hr /></blockquote>

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. If he had been doing this on a regular basis he would have been busted long ago. He will still get a suspension though /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Wally~~been to Bristol, wants to go to Wrigley Field

pooljunkie73
06-04-2003, 09:23 AM
The worst part is,is it makes people look at all his other accomplishments and wonder.I hope they don't find anymore that are corked.He has been good for baseball.

eg8r
06-04-2003, 12:09 PM
[ QUOTE ]
There's so much cheating in baseball it's hilarious. <hr /></blockquote> Here is an interesting page from ESPN.com. It is a list of baseball's best (worst) cheaters. My favorite is Rick Honeycutt /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/cheaters/ballplayers.html

Enjoy.

eg8r

snipershot
06-04-2003, 06:14 PM
Sammy is a class act and I for one believe his story, at the rate bats are breaking nowadays you would have to be pretty stupid to use a corked bat, I think Sammy truly made an honest mistake. Let's hope they don't find any more of his bats to be corked.

wolfdancer
06-04-2003, 08:56 PM
Fran, I like Sammy...heck, who doesn't?..but I can't believe he picked up a corked bat; probably an ounce or two lighter then his own, and did not realize it...and giving the folks a show during BP, the reason for the corked bat??
Help Jack get out of debt!!! Send just one of your paychecks to the helpjack site.....
Am I trying on my own to get out of debt??? you betcha...just bought a share in the stud fees for funny cide...if he wins on sat, the fees will go way up...can't believe my good luck, getting in on this deal

JPB
06-04-2003, 09:26 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote snipershot:</font><hr> Sammy is a class act and I for one believe his story, at the rate bats are breaking nowadays you would have to be pretty stupid to use a corked bat, I think Sammy truly made an honest mistake. Let's hope they don't find any more of his bats to be corked. <hr /></blockquote>


How can you seriously believe this? Maybe you want to because you like him but his story is ridiculous. Wolfdancer is absolutely correct. No world class athlete could possibly pick up a piece of equipment that is significantly lighter than normal and not notice. Tiger Woods can feel the difference of a fraction of a gram in a golf club. Sammy is no tiger of course, and bats are not as precise as golf clubs yada yada, but he had to know he was using a corked bat. And it's not like he didn't admit it was his. He admitted he used the bat in exhibitions or whatever. So he knew the difference in feel. Period. Odds are he uses one corked bat at a time. When it breaks it usually breaks off at the shaved handle, not the meaty part of the barrel where the cork is. Or maybe he only recently started corking in his slump. But he knowingly used a corked bat and is lying about it.

Now who thinks he hasn't been on the juice? /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Nightstalker
06-04-2003, 09:30 PM
I will bet $1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 ,000,000,000 that Sammy has never taken the juice once in his whole life! LOL /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

sliprock
06-05-2003, 12:11 AM
I believe Sammy after they confiscated 76 other bats from his locker, Xrayed them and found nothing wrong. I also heard that they chopped up the bat used for Homer # 498 and it was legal....

Ralph S.
06-05-2003, 06:52 AM
Yes, I stand corrected. The number of bats&lt;600&gt;is what he ordered for the complete season. The total bats removed from the dugout and clubhouse was 76. I truly believe it to ba an honest mistake and the bat x-ray helps Sosa save some face.

As far as corking bats goes, according to the experts at ESPN, a corked bat only increases the balls distance by 1%.
Just one lousy percent LOL. For example&lt;ball is hit with standard bat and travels 400ft. it will travel 404ft. with a corked bat. Obviously, Sammy doesnt need the extra four feet with the distances he crushes the ball. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Hopster
06-05-2003, 07:30 AM
The rest of the bats came up clean so thats that. Its just another case of the media being the pimp low life slugs that they are creating sensationalism where none needed to be created.
The guy picked up the wrong bat, end of story. Anyone who thinks that guy needs any special equiptment to hit a ball out is nuts.

eg8r
06-05-2003, 08:31 AM
Hopster, you are correct. He does not need to cork a bat. I really like Sammy Sosa, and until this happened, I never thought anything bad about him. I have learned since, that he was not so great a person while in Texas. He seemed to have Rickey Henderson-like issues. That is besides the point. The way Sammy acted after the game, I think, says a lot of his character. He did seem honestly upset about what had transpired. I do believe he will not get caught again (notice I did not say he will not cheat again).

I do wish Sammy the best, and it is great news about the rest of the bats. My question is, why even HAVE a corked bat? He says it is for homerun shows or something like that, but I personally feel that is a bit misleading to the fans.

I really hope the media allows this to die and go away, as long as it is over. If Sammy gets caught again, then shame on us for forgiving so quickly.

C'mon Sammy give us another 60 this year. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

Hopster
06-05-2003, 01:27 PM
I do wish Sammy the best, and it is great news about the rest of the bats. My question is, why even HAVE a corked bat? He says it is for homerun shows or something like that, but I personally feel that is a bit misleading to the fans. &lt;--Eg8r

What i think i heard was that he used it for batting practice only and it got mixed in with the rest somehow.

I never thought anything bad about him. I have learned since, that he was not so great a person while in Texas. He seemed to have Rickey Henderson-like issues. &lt;--Eg8r

This could very well be true but you got to remember that he was young at the time and probably not very mature and i doubt that his english was as good as it is now, so that might have played into it. Also, the guy was struggling then, he wasnt always a super star slugger, so all of these things might attribute to a few mood swings, ya know ?
You cant listen to these sports reporter humps cause theyre just like the regular media, they all stink like dead fish on a hot summer day.

Fran Crimi
06-05-2003, 02:06 PM
I heard on sports radio by some guy claimed to be an expert that a corked bat could give a player as much as 20 feet more if you hit the sweet spot.

Question: Why wasn't the bat marked so that there would never be a mixup?

Next question: A ball player knows his bat. There is no way Sosa could have picked up that bat and not have known which one it was. A corked bat is substantially lighter. In pool, if you went to break and grabbed your shooting cue instead of your break stick, and got into your stance, wouldn't you feel the difference just by the feel of the cue in your hands??

Sosa knew which bat was in his hands. The question is why didn't he do something about it?

Fran

Mr Ingrate
06-05-2003, 03:20 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr>just bought a share in the stud fees for funny cide...if he wins on sat, the fees will go way up...can't believe my good luck, getting in on this deal <hr /></blockquote>
Jack,

You crack me up!


~~~ 18 posts 'til I qualify fot the US open ~~

Hopster
06-05-2003, 04:17 PM
Question: Why wasn't the bat marked so that there would never be a mixup? &lt;--Fran

Good question, perhaps he just threw it in his bat bag and reached in and grabbed one, but it should have been marked.
Also, this was a big deal over nothing. They showed the right way to cork a bat for max effect is to have the cork run the length of the barrel, not just the one spot they showed on TV. So once again, i seriously doubt the man was trying to pull something.

Fran Crimi
06-05-2003, 05:46 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Hopster:</font><hr> They showed the right way to cork a bat for max effect is to have the cork run the length of the barrel, not just the one spot they showed on TV. So once again, i seriously doubt the man was trying to pull something.

<hr /></blockquote>

Wouldn't that make it even more suspicious because if the bat should break chances are that the cork wouldn't be found?

Fran

eg8r
06-05-2003, 05:51 PM
Based on some studies, a corked bat doesn't really make a difference for the batter. So why even have a corked bat. He obviously does not need it.

As far as listening to the reporters, I get a little more first hand knowledge from the guys that were here when he was. He seperated himself from the team when it came to accomplishments. The team would lose the game poorly and he would be joking around bragging about how well he did.

He has grown up quite a bit and doesn't seem like that person at all anymore, and that is great. He will be able to move past this I am sure. He is a great player and will be in the Hall in no time. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

Nightstalker
06-05-2003, 06:04 PM
Yes, I don't think that this is enough of an issue to keep him out of the Hall.

MikeM
06-05-2003, 07:17 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Hopster:</font><hr> The rest of the bats came up clean so thats that. Its just another case of the media being the pimp low life slugs that they are creating sensationalism where none needed to be created.
The guy picked up the wrong bat, end of story. Anyone who thinks that guy needs any special equiptment to hit a ball out is nuts. <hr /></blockquote>

You don't think it's a big deal that one of the greatest home run hitters ever is caught cheating? I think there a lot more people than media types talking about this. My Mom was even talking about it tonight. Do you expect not to see highlights of a corked bat on ESPN?

IMO Sammy's legacy is permanently tarnished. He's already strongly suspected of using steroids and now this. I've always liked Sosa and feel bad for him now. But I have to agree with Fran, he had to know what bat he had. And why take the chance of EVER using a corked bat even just for fun? That's asking for trouble.

MM

Hopster
06-05-2003, 09:12 PM
Wouldn't that make it even more suspicious because if the bat should break chances are that the cork wouldn't be found? &lt;---Fran

Fran i dont know if you remember the Geroge Brett incident but he had a bat that was corked, really corked. This thing with Sammy was nothing, christ the cork was maybe an inch or 2 at the most in diameter.
Now if you were going to take a chance cheating wouldnt you go for max effect ?? The penaltys going to be the same either way so why not swing for the fences, so to speak. lol
I just dont buy it and never will. This guys an animal,he could probably slap a ball out of the park with his hand plus hes one of the most classy players in the game.
Now if he was messing around why werent there any other bats like that one found ??
Plus im very very sure it aint the first bat hes ever broken, not by a long long shot, so why havent they ever found anything like this before ??
This guy needs to cheat like Willie Mosconi needed a spot in straight pool.

Hopster
06-05-2003, 09:24 PM
You don't think it's a big deal that one of the greatest home run hitters ever is caught cheating? I think there a lot more people than media types talking about this. My Mom was even talking about it tonight. Do you expect not to see highlights of a corked bat on ESPN? &lt;--MikeM

No Mike, in all honesty i dont think its a big deal, guy grabbed the wrong bat, end of story. Who knows why ?? I stated all my reasons up above. Im taking this with a grain of salt like a ton of other people are. Nothings going to happen to him and nothing should.
We all make mistakes in our jobs, every last one of us. Why should he be any different ? I think it wasnt the best idea in the world to have something like that around in case something like this should ever happen, but who knows what these guys do to get a groove going in their hitting routines ? We got any pro ball players on this board ? If we do maybe one of them can answer it for us. I dont know why, i just think its been blown way way way out of proportion but thats the media in this country for you. The worst slimy scummy things on earth, the hatred i got for these people would be hard for me to describe. For every one good thing they report they report 10 others that are inaccurate and hurtful to someone needlessly.
Especially the scum on CNN, ESPN i expect it from cause theyre mainly knuckle heads anyway.

Fran Crimi
06-06-2003, 12:19 AM
Let's play detective.

Here are the facts:

1.) The corked bat wasn't marked.

2.) Sosa claimed he didn't know he was using the corked bat.

3.) He claims he uses that bat during practice exhibitions.

4.) Sosa is a professional ball player. He has expert knowledge of the game and it's equipment.

The question that needs to be answered, is not whether that particular corked bat would give him longer hits, or how much longer. The bat is illegal and the question is whether or not he knew he was using an illegal bat.

Based on the facts, there seem to be a lot of things that don't add up here. First, if he can't tell the difference between that bat and a legal bat, why wouldn't he have the bat marked? Did he have this special place for that bat that he dilligently put it so it didn't get mixed in with the others? That would require a very conscious effort every single time he was through with that bat. Hard to believe since all he had to do was mark it.

Next, let's say he really didn't know what bat he was using. Then what happens to the bat after the game if it didn't break? Does it get mixed in with the others, and what does he do the next time he looks for it to use in an exhibition? Does he throw out all his bats because he can't tell which is which?

None of it makes sense. I'm starting to think he knew exactly what he was doing. Maybe he grabbed the wrong bat but he didn't bother to bring it back and get another one as soon as he realized which one he had. Maybe he liked the way that bat feels and took a chance in using it. Maybe he thinks he's above the laws of the game.

Based on the facts, he's either really smart or really dumb. I find it hard to believe he's really dumb.

Fran

Sparky
06-06-2003, 12:27 AM
I think what Fran is saying makes a lot of sense. He had to have known what bat he was using. No doubt about it!

"Sparky"

Sparky
06-06-2003, 12:30 AM
The unfortunate thing for Sammy is this, the bat broke. Therefore, he got caught. I doubt that he was expecting the bat to break. It doesn't happen all the time. What were the chances of it breaking...1 out of 10? I have no clue. All I know is that it broke. He knew what he was doing. He took a chance.

"Sparky"

Fred Agnir
06-06-2003, 07:44 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Hopster:</font><hr>
Fran i dont know if you remember the Geroge Brett incident but he had a bat that was corked, really corked. <hr /></blockquote>George Brett? I don't think so. There were many others, but not Brett. Albert Belle and Amos Otis come to mind.

Pine Tar too high, yes. Cork in bat, no.

Fred

Ralph S.
06-06-2003, 07:58 AM
Fran, I must disagree wuth you and here are my responses to your opinions:
1&gt;You say Sammy should know the difference between the bats. I disagree because all the bats are the same model,length, color, weight etc... Could you tell?

2&gt;I posted in this thread earlier that the facts are scientificaly proven that a corked bat will add only 1% total distance to a balls flight when hit with corked bat. An example: non-corked bat the ball travels 400 ft. same ball hit with a corked bat will travel 404 ft.

3&gt;I really wish that you had watched ESPN Wedensday night. Former player and manager Buck Showalter perfomed a bat corking right on ESPN. Mere minutes and it was done. You couldnt tell the difference between the corked bat vs. non-corked. He even weighed both bats on a digital scale and depending on how you pack the cork, the weight difference is uaually an ounce or less in weight than a legal bat. When a pool player picks up a cue that has maybe a 1/2 ounce difference than another cue, many times they cant tell the difference even though the cues are identical in appearance.

4&gt;Many are quickly condemming Sammy and saying he is a fraud. Sosa was the first to ever hit 60+ home runs in a season 3 times. Kind of funny that nobody is suspecting the 5'2" 140lb. secondbaseman that is suddenly hitting 40 a year when his previous carreer best was a total of 15 hr ten tears earlier. Are you suspicious of Barry Bonds? He was never even close to Sosa's or McGuire's numbers, then suddenly puts up 70+ homers???

With all due respect to your vast knowledge, particularly in billiards, I do think you may want to study baseball a little bit more. Check the stats or whatever. Sammy aint no cheat and I believe him!!!!!!!

Ralph S.
06-06-2003, 08:05 AM
I forgot to mention Fran, you are starting to beleive that he purposely cheated. I must inform you that the biggest cheats in baseball are pitchers. They intentionally throw the ball in the dirt, it helps give them an advantage to put a more induced break on the ball when pitching it. They also use many, many foreign substances to enhance the ball reaction when thrown certain ways. Several of these pitchers are in the HOF also. The record books will lend merit to what I am saying.

eg8r
06-06-2003, 09:06 AM
[ QUOTE ]
The unfortunate thing for Sammy is this, the bat broke. Therefore, he got caught. I doubt that he was expecting the bat to break. It doesn't happen all the time. What were the chances of it breaking...1 out of 10? I have no clue. All I know is that it broke. He knew what he was doing. He took a chance. <hr /></blockquote> I think the unfortunate thing for Sammy was that he risked his name and reputation on a bat that does not really do anything for him. It is not unfortunate that the bat broke, if it had not broken he might have continued making the "mistake".

You also know one other thing...Sammy has cheated on the game, himself, and most importantly the fans. The good news is that most of us have a forgiving heart and understand sometimes we don't make great decisions. Hopefully Sammy will remember this the next time he thinks about corking a bat. It is never unfortunate that you got caught, it is unfortunate that you put your self in the position to be viewed as a cheater.

eg8r

Fran Crimi
06-06-2003, 09:21 AM
If a corked bat doesn't make a difference, then why did he feel he needed to use one in exhibitions? All that for only 4 feet?

He's a professional, Ralph. Why didn't he mark the bat? Maybe he DID mark the bat. You don't have to know anything about baseball to ask those questions.

As for the pitchers being worse cheats, just because cheating is something ball players do, it still doesn't make it right. Is there such a thing as cheating and worse cheating? Cheating is cheating, regardless of the degree.

Fran

eg8r
06-06-2003, 09:26 AM
[ QUOTE ]
4&gt;Many are quickly condemming Sammy and saying he is a fraud. Sosa was the first to ever hit 60+ home runs in a season 3 times. Kind of funny that nobody is suspecting the 5'2" 140lb. secondbaseman that is suddenly hitting 40 a year when his previous carreer best was a total of 15 hr ten tears earlier. Are you suspicious of Barry Bonds? He was never even close to Sosa's or McGuire's numbers, then suddenly puts up 70+ homers??? <hr /></blockquote> Sosa, also had a good jump in the home runs he put up. He had never hit high 50s before he started hitting a ton of them. I am sure you remember when he was barely hitting more than 10 and all of a sudden he starts hitting 30. Why do you ignore this, however you bring up Soriano?

I am not saying that Sosa has cheated this whole time, however you cannot disagree that it might have been happening. He all of a sudden became a home run hitter. Give me a break. Sosa came from no where, and there is a great chance that he has been cheating the whole time. I for one do not want to believe it, but I also know that there is a REAL chance that it has happened before.

By all means, I also hope you don't take this personal, however, I hope you don't forget to take a look at your subjects past also. A lot can be said about a guy that goes from 8 home runs to 33 and then a few years later goes from 33 to 66. And then a few years later gets caught cheating. I do forgive Sammy and I hope type of crap does not happen again, however I am not blinded by all the good he does. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

eg8r
06-06-2003, 09:49 AM
Yup too high by a couple inches. I believe that ruling was overthrown a couple days later.

I still love watching him come tearing out of the dugout. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

Fred Agnir
06-06-2003, 09:56 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ralph S.:</font><hr> Fran, I must disagree wuth you and here are my responses to your opinions:
1&gt;You say Sammy should know the difference between the bats. I disagree because all the bats are the same model,length, color, weight etc... Could you tell?
<hr /></blockquote>I think you may have missed Fran's point. The question is, since all the bats look the same, why on earth wouldn't he have clearly marked his bat to differentiate his "special bat" from any of the other hundred bats on hand? Afterall, since it looks exactly the same, there would be no way to find out which one was the dirty bat if it got accidentally put in with the rest. I would suggest branding "this bat is illegally corked" somewhere like the end.

Sammy is either guilty of cheating or guilty of being a candidate for the Darwin Award.

Fred

Fred Agnir
06-06-2003, 10:01 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> Why do you ignore this, however you bring up Soriano?
<hr /></blockquote>Did he? Soriano isn't a surprise, isn't 5'2" and 140lbs either, and certainly hasn't been in the bigs for 10 years.

Doesn't suspect Soriano of anything...

Fred

Fred Agnir
06-06-2003, 10:04 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ralph S.:</font><hr> Are you suspicious of Barry Bonds?<hr /></blockquote>Who isn't?

Fred &lt;~~~ suspicious, but still likes to watch them launch

Voodoo Daddy
06-06-2003, 10:07 AM
Uncorked bat home run average=400'
Corked bat bat home run=404'

Proved by Louisville Slugger Bat Co. circa 1988

A corked bat during practice is easier to swing due to its weight...less injury.

Voodoo~~~hates baseball unless it has PINSTRIPES

eg8r
06-06-2003, 10:17 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ralph:</font><hr> Kind of funny that nobody is suspecting the 5'2" 140lb. secondbaseman that is suddenly hitting 40 a year when his previous carreer best was a total of 15 hr ten tears earlier.<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred:</font><hr>Did he? Soriano isn't a surprise, isn't 5'2" and 140lbs either, and certainly hasn't been in the bigs for 10 years.
<hr /></blockquote> <hr /></blockquote> Well, Fred, who said anything about being in the bigs? Seems you fell in the same trap. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Actually there has been plenty of talk about Soriano's new power, however most suggest it should not be a surprise. He was a lanky guy when he started and only until recently did he start balking up. You were aware of that also I am sure. I am not aware of too many other small second basemen that are making much of a stink with respect to hitting homeruns. I guess maybe Boone (probably not), but who knows. It still has nothing to do with the point I was "trying" to make. Go back and read the whole thing.

eg8r

eg8r
06-06-2003, 10:20 AM
[ QUOTE ]
A corked bat during practice is easier to swing due to its weight...less injury. <hr /></blockquote> I can appreciate this, however why not mark it.

How much of a reduction in weight are we really talking about? How much does that help the body? I am sure there are real reasons, but if it puts you in a position to be viewed as cheating, is it worth it?

eg8r

Sparky
06-06-2003, 10:24 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> If a corked bat doesn't make a difference, then why did he feel he needed to use one in exhibitions? All that for only 4 feet?

He's a professional, Ralph. Why didn't he mark the bat? Maybe he DID mark the bat. You don't have to know anything about baseball to ask those questions.

As for the pitchers being worse cheats, just because cheating is something ball players do, it still doesn't make it right. Is there such a thing as cheating and worse cheating? Cheating is cheating, regardless of the degree.

Fran <hr /></blockquote>

I agree with your statements.

There are a lot of people on this board that think they know everything. Most of them just ASSUME things. There is nothing wrong with asking questions, especially valid ones. And you're right, you do not have to know anything about baseball to ask the questions that you are asking. It seems as though most of the people on this board just like to find little things here and there to dispute. Most just seem to like to argue about everything. That is MY opinion. I am entitled to MY opinion.

"Sparky"

Fran Crimi
06-06-2003, 10:27 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Voodoo Daddy:</font><hr> Uncorked bat home run average=400'
Corked bat bat home run=404'

Proved by Louisville Slugger Bat Co. circa 1988

A corked bat during practice is easier to swing due to its weight...less injury.

Voodoo~~~hates baseball unless it has PINSTRIPES <hr /></blockquote>

OK, So there it is, right there. It's not so much about the extra distance, but rather than less strain on the batter. So it would definitely be an asset to a batter who was feeling stiff that day and didn't want to risk injury.

Fran

Fred Agnir
06-06-2003, 10:43 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ralph:</font><hr> Kind of funny that nobody is suspecting the 5'2" 140lb. secondbaseman that is suddenly hitting 40 a year when his previous carreer best was a total of 15 hr ten tears earlier.<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred:</font><hr>Did he? Soriano isn't a surprise, isn't 5'2" and 140lbs either, and certainly hasn't been in the bigs for 10 years.
<hr /></blockquote> <hr /></blockquote> Well, Fred, who said anything about being in the bigs? Seems you fell in the same trap. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif
<hr /></blockquote>??? You replied to this:

" ... when his previous carreer best was a total of 15 hr ten tears earlier..."

Is the "career best" not an inference to the big league career, since no other reference was made?

Fred &lt;~~~ must have fallen into the 40 a year, 5' 2" and 140 lb trap too.

Fred Agnir
06-06-2003, 11:27 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Voodoo Daddy:</font><hr> A corked bat during practice is easier to swing due to its weight...less injury.<hr /></blockquote>Wouldn't going to a lighter bat do the same thing, but legally?

Anyone know if it's illegal to bore out a hole in the bat and fill it with, say, a dowel of yellow cedar or balsa?

Fred &lt;~~~ doesn't know why a corked bat helps

Fran Crimi
06-06-2003, 11:44 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Voodoo Daddy:</font><hr> A corked bat during practice is easier to swing due to its weight...less injury.<hr /></blockquote>Wouldn't going to a lighter bat do the same thing, but legally?

Fred &lt;~~~ doesn't know why a corked bat helps <hr /></blockquote>

Fred, if you can get the same distance with a lighter corked bat as with a heavier regular bat, then it would seem logical that you wouldn't get the same distance if you switched to a legal lighter bat.

It would seem to me that the differential in distance is a lot more than 1% if you compare equally light weight bats rather than a heavier bat with a harder swing vs a lighter cork bat with the batter using less effort.

Fran

MikeM
06-06-2003, 11:55 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ralph S.:</font><hr> I must inform you that the biggest cheats in baseball are pitchers. They intentionally throw the ball in the dirt, it helps give them an advantage to put a more induced break on the ball when pitching it. <hr /></blockquote>

That's why they throw out all balls that hit the dirt now.

MM

MikeM
06-06-2003, 11:59 AM
IMO he got off lightly.

MM

Fran Crimi
06-06-2003, 12:27 PM
Thanks Sparky. I appreciate your comments. Ralph does have a point, though. I'm not an expert in baseball and I'm sure it wouldn't hurt to have more knowledge about the subject matter. More is better than less. We're all just debating. None of us knows for sure.

Maybe we'll see Sammy do an interview with Barbara Walters soon. He's going to have to do some damage control. /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Fran

Mr Ingrate
06-06-2003, 12:44 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr>Fred, if you can get the same distance with a lighter corked bat as with a heavier regular bat, then it would seem logical that you wouldn't get the same distance if you switched to a legal lighter bat.

It would seem to me that the differential in distance is a lot more than 1% if you compare equally light weight bats rather than a heavier bat with a harder swing vs a lighter cork bat with the batter using less effort.

Fran <hr /></blockquote>

I predict in the very near future that Predator will announced a new bat with 10 radial splices and a hollow core. It will not be necessary to hold it with the label up to ensure the best contact. A competitor will, very quickly, come out with their own "Red Label" and "Black Label" bats and the controversy will begin.


~~~ Only 16 more posts to qualify for the CCB US Open ~~~

Kato
06-06-2003, 01:38 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Hopster:</font><hr>
I just dont buy it and never will. This guys an animal,he could probably slap a ball out of the park with his hand <hr /></blockquote>

Maybe this is why.
AB HR AVG RBI R SB
146 6 .281 25 29 0

That's rather poor for Sammy at this time of the year. Now usually Sammy will put together a spectacular month and propel himself into the home run race but it hasn't happened yet.

Here's what I think. Sammy is in a slump, his bat speed is off. He wants to go to a lighter bat but maybe doesn't want to order another 75 bats from his bat company. Maybe it takes 2 weeks to get his bats to him (probably not but maybe). Maybe someone approaches him and tells him about his options. Maybe one of those options is corking the bat and taking an ounce off to help with his bat speed.

He currently has 50 strike outs in 146 at bats. So in a full 600 at bat season he'd have around 200 strike outs which is more than his career high of 171. My guess is either he's pressing or slow, perhaps both.

Some players hit the wall too early in their careers. Hope Sammy ain't one of 'em.

Kato

MikeM
06-06-2003, 03:45 PM
How 'bout another Rick Reily interview?!?

MM

Hopster
06-06-2003, 09:20 PM
George Brett? I don't think so. There were many others, but not Brett. Albert Belle and Amos Otis come to mind.

Pine Tar too high, yes. Cork in bat, no. &lt;---Fred

Fred, youre 100% right. I always think of Brett for some reason whenever theres a beef with a bat. lol

I remember something with Otis too, but that was quite a while ago. I met him 2 years ago, guys still in good shape.

Hopster
06-06-2003, 09:22 PM
Check the stats or whatever. Sammy aint no cheat and I believe him!!!!!!! &lt;--Ralph S

Im with you Ralph and im not a Cubs fan either. Mets unfortunately, lol.
Im leaving all the amateur Sherlock Holmes to their witch hunts.
Like i said in a previous post : This guy needs help like Willie needed a spot. Finito.

Ralph S.
06-07-2003, 12:36 AM
To Fran, Eg8r, and Sparky: We all strive to get better at billiards-pool, because we love to play the game. We all practice, any arguement there? Didnt think so. Sammy Sosa plays base ball, he obviously practices also. Why? Same as us, to get better. You note the differences in his stats from early in his carrer to now. Have any of you actually looked at his stats on a year to year basis? he has steadily improved his all-round game in every area! His batting avg. has increased as well as defensive play and almost every offensive category has improved including homerun totals. I have watched him through his early years with Texas and the Whitesox. His improvement and discipline has become much better allowing better numbers.

The one person that I think would understand and note this is Fran. She is a professional instructer and I am very sure she has an eye for detail like that. Maybe she just doesnt watch baseball except for the World Series.

Eg8r, maybe you and the rest that disagree with me should go to this link and look up his carrer stats then, maybe you can present a better prosecution. www.cubs.com (http://www.cubs.com) &lt;player stats&gt;

As for Sparky, any one that openly asks everyone else to pay his bills aint got no right to say another is a cheat or whatever you want to label them.

Fran Crimi
06-07-2003, 06:06 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ralph S.:</font><hr> To Fran, Eg8r, and Sparky: We all strive to get better at billiards-pool, because we love to play the game. We all practice, any arguement there? Didnt think so. Sammy Sosa plays base ball, he obviously practices also. Why? Same as us, to get better. You note the differences in his stats from early in his carrer to now. Have any of you actually looked at his stats on a year to year basis? he has steadily improved his all-round game in every area! His batting avg. has increased as well as defensive play and almost every offensive category has improved including homerun totals. I have watched him through his early years with Texas and the Whitesox. His improvement and discipline has become much better allowing better numbers.

The one person that I think would understand and note this is Fran. She is a professional instructer and I am very sure she has an eye for detail like that. Maybe she just doesnt watch baseball except for the World Series.

Eg8r, maybe you and the rest that disagree with me should go to this link and look up his carrer stats then, maybe you can present a better prosecution. www.cubs.com (http://www.cubs.com) &lt;player stats&gt;

As for Sparky, any one that openly asks everyone else to pay his bills aint got no right to say another is a cheat or whatever you want to label them. <hr /></blockquote>

Ralph, the reason I understand is not because I'm a teacher, it's because I'm a professional pool player. I give exhibitions too and I could easily use an illegal jump rod to execute some of the difficult jump shots that don't always go. But I don't because it's an illegal piece of equipment. If it's illegal, you won't see it in my posession. I have too much respect for the game to deceive the fans like that, even if it's just in an exhibition.

I may not be a baseball expert, but I'm a fan and I have common sense, and I have my Joe DiMaggio autographed baseball proudly displayed in my living room.

Honestly, Ralph, if this happened to me and I was innocent, I'd have insisted on taking a lie detector test immediately. Lie detector tests aren't like they were years ago. They are deadly accurate these days.

Fran

Ralph S.
06-07-2003, 07:41 AM
Fran, all debating aside, I must say I am impressed as well as jealous if that is a reall ball signed by Joltin' Joe Dimaggio. That is a great piece of memrabillia to have.

As for the lie detector thing, Sammy already admitted the bat was corked, we all seen it already, so no detector test would be needed. That is unless you wanted to ask him if he really did grab that particular bat by accident. I beleive him, without a dam test. If you really pay close attention to the first interview after the incident, you could see the sincerity and devastation in his face. Add to that that he did not deny the bat being corked. He explained exactly why he had the bat and that he grabbed it by mistake.

I truly belive him when he says the bat was accidentally mixed with the rest. He is too much into trying to give the fans their moneys worth and his love for the game is second to none. With the reputation he has built, I dont think he would purposely take a chance that would potentially destroy a Hall of Fame carreer.

You do debate rather well though Fran, I like that LOL.

Fran Crimi
06-07-2003, 11:40 AM
Well thanks, Ralph. You're a pretty mean debator yourself. LOL!

Yep. The autograph is the real deal. Funny how I came upon the ball. Just before DiMaggio became ill, I had been invited along with Jean Balukas to do a pool shooting exhibition at an Arnold Schwartzenagger Charity event for inner city kids. There was this silent auction going on of all kinds of great sports memorabillia. You add your name and a bid to a list and by the end of the evening, the one with the highest bid wins that item. Everyone was going for the dead guys, but I had my eye on this lonely DiMaggio baseball sitting over in a corner, so I put my name on the list and a bid of I think $100. Never in a million years did I figure to win. I couldn't believe it when they called my name at the end of the evening. They handed me the ball in a beautiful case with a certificate of authenticity. Jean was totally jealous. Haha!

I did manage to blow a few good opportunities, though. One time I was invited to do an exhibition for the grand opening of a new soda pop and when I got there I was told that two guys were going to shoot pool with me for the evening. When they brought them over to me, I nearly fainted. They were Yogi Berra and Whitey Ford. I spent the entire evening laughing. Yogi plays well but Whitey was terrible and Yogi ribbed him all night. I had such a great time I forgot to ask for their autographs! Dumb.

Fran

Ralph S.
06-08-2003, 05:39 AM
That is a really great story Fran. Imagigine, playing some pool with a couple of sports legends... /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif how do you get so lucky ? /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r
06-08-2003, 04:45 PM
Ralph, I really am not arguing what he is doing. All I was doing was pointing out the fact that you ignored Sammy's GIANT leap in homeruns over just one year. From 89 to 92 he hit like a normal guy, then all of a sudden something changed. I am not saying this was cheating, but you were the one that pointed out Barry. Don't knock Barry for doing what Sammy did back in 93. Sammy has been quite steady for the past 5 or so years (In case you did not know, I am a sucker for stats). In your praise for the quality of his offense you forgot to mention the enormous amount of strikeouts. Seems to be a normal thing these days (turn your head on a strikeout as long as the next time he hits it out).

It is true that in 92 he had half as many at bats, but even if he did have 500, his HR total is still miniscule to what he does now. I am not saying anything he has accomplished has been because of cheating. I think he is an honest man. Understand that.

My original reasoning for posting on this thread, is to show that yes he did get caught cheating. We have all forgiven him and think the media has blown it a little out of proportion. That is all.

Do not blind yourself with admiration to not think it was cheating. He even stated it himself that he uses the bat when he wants to put on a "good" show during batting practice (I cannot remember where I read/heard that or I would quote it). This in its most honest state is cheating. He is cheating the fans, because they do not know if what he did was with a LEGAL bat. Sure there are no legal/illegal bats in batting practice, but that is a slight bit of information that he failed to tell anyone until he screwed up and grabbed the cheater bat and used it in a real game. It was an honest mistake and I totally believe he did not mean to grab a "cheater" bat. However, it is what it is, and now it is forgiven.

eg8r

eg8r
06-08-2003, 04:51 PM
[ QUOTE ]
??? You replied to this:

" ... when his previous carreer best was a total of 15 hr ten tears earlier..."

Is the "career best" not an inference to the big league career, since no other reference was made?
<hr /></blockquote> It wasn't for me. I was thinking that such a low output was probaby considering minors. Thus only the bigs does not work for me. I made the big screw up.

Now which second baseman is he referring to? /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r