View Full Version : Big Boys and Their Toys Expo Tournament Fiasco

Jimmy Mendoza
06-09-2003, 11:45 AM
This is a repost from azbilliards.com.

Allow me to vent my frustrations:

There was an expo here in Phoenix called "Big Boys and Their Toys" in which numerous exhibitors displayed their products (as the name would suggest, most were more typical of men's interests, such as cars, boats, motorcycles, and yes, pool equipment). A local tournament promoter here organized an event in which 10 players would play a round robin tournament with a $1000 first prize (not bad for a local gig with only 10 players).

Here is what I was told about the tournament:

The tournament will be played on 9-foot Olhousen tables. There will be two 5-man brackets. Within those brackets, everyone will play everyone 7 games total, and the guy with the best win record in his bracket will come back on Sunday to play in the finals.

When I arrived to play on Saturday, this is what was actually happening:

The tournament was being played on 8-foot Olhousen tables. There were two 5-man brackets, as expected, but now the top two guys from each bracket would be back on Sunday. Upon discovering we were playing on 8-footers, I wouldn't have minded just leaving because I was expecting to play on the 9 footers that I was told we were going to play on. However, this was a partially sponsored event, and I had a sponsor, so I felt an obligation to stay and play. To sum up Saturday, I finished with the best record in my bracket. The fact that two of us were now coming back Sunday didn't really bother me, but still, it was yet another change that was made on tournament day.


The 4 of us are supposed to play a round robin, with each player playing all players 9 games. The two players with the lowest number of wins get 3rd and 4th, while the two players with the highest number of wins are going to play one final round for first place (again, it's only a total of 9 games, so the finals is a race to 5). The way it ends up is, one player has 15 wins, me and another player have 14 wins, and another player has 11 wins. So, 4th place is determined, but now the two of us with 14 wins have to have a play-off to see who goes to the finals. Well, somewhere along the line, either just prior to, or during my match, the promoter changes the rules/format one final time, deciding that my match was only to determine 2nd and 3rd, and that the guy who was waiting to play one of us was now the winner! So, I end up winning my match, and now I'm thinking I'm going to play in the finals. Nope! I get second, and that is that. The promoter's reasoning was that we were running out of time. Well, after walking around the Expo for 20 minutes, I was about to leave when I saw that there were still matches going on in a scotch doubles tournament that was taking place at the same time, and the finals hadn't even started yet! So to sum up what happened, 1st place money ($1000 + a $350 case) was just GIVEN to one player, while I was handed 2nd place ($500) without even holding the finals.

Nice, eh?

06-09-2003, 12:18 PM
Sue the Bastards!

06-09-2003, 07:25 PM
I agree... how can he change the format after it started. i would complain or file a complaint with someone. go to the newspapers if you have to and name names. see if he likes all the bad press. Especially if he is a local business man. That really get me...good luck..mike

06-09-2003, 09:15 PM
With that reasoning (time constraints) you should have been awarded 1st and the other two were battling it out for 2nd. I don't know your recourse, poosibly small claims court? Did you pay an entry fee? Maybe your sponsor can talk to them...? Or if you have a lawyer a well a worded letter may do the trick?

Jimmy Mendoza
06-09-2003, 10:49 PM
It got me too. I wasn't even that upset at first only because it just didn't even seem real. It wasn't until afterward that it hit me how rediculous it was. We (everyone in the tournament) played for two days building up to a finals match that didn't happen, but yet, a winner was selected. I've never even heard of anything like this happening.

06-10-2003, 10:02 AM
You should have challenged the 1st place guy to a set for the difference in prize money...could have ended up with all of his as well.

06-10-2003, 10:10 AM
" What if i make you the winner and you give ME $250 back."


Jimmy Mendoza
06-10-2003, 12:19 PM
Well, I don't intend on taking it so far that I actually persue legal action, but I do hope that my posting will influence someone, somewhere, to not play in one of these events if the opportunity ever arises. The name of his company (if it even is a company - for all I know this is just the name he uses when he wants it to appear it's a company) is "World Registry Billiards", or "New Image Pool", and the promoter's name is Ron Hoffman. I might not have made much of a deal about this (ok, so I probably still would have), but it is my understanding that this type of thing is common at his events. When I told some local people who know Ron and have dealt with him before about what happened, although they thought it was an absolute joke, they weren't suprised at all. The general response I got from everyone I told was, "that's Ron for you!" I wondered why he had such a tough time getting 10 players for this tournament. Now I know.


06-10-2003, 09:17 PM
Wow two days and no final, sorry to hear about that. Ron left a message to come down and play. I wondered what's up with this? He only needed 10 players. Ron is a salesman and promoter, things are not always well thought out and may not be as they seem to appear. I'll file that one away for future reference.


06-11-2003, 08:00 AM
I know a few people in the NY-NJ area that were complaining about some of the local and qualifier type tournaments, being poorly run.Most of the complaints I heard were about poor table conditions, and match schedule's times being pooly organized.It's one of the reason's I never try to play in any local tournaments!

Jimmy Mendoza
06-11-2003, 10:57 AM
Hey Rod. Yeah, he really struggled to get 10, and in the end, only 9 showed up anyway. I'll tell you, this was absolutely no different than having a double elimination tournament, a guy is in the hot seat, you come through the loser's side to get to the finals (and it's a single set finals) and the tournament director says, "sorry, it's getting kind of late so there isn't going to be a finals, so you just get 2nd place." I told some of the other players around here and nobody seemed suprised at all. They say this sort of thing is common practice for Ron. I don't want to jump on the bandwagon and say, "this is why pool is where it is" (which seems to be the standard comment to make when something like this happens), but the billiard industry, particularily the player side of it, is struggling badly enough without people running events like this.

#### leonard
06-13-2003, 06:43 AM
Golfers learned 50 years ago to run their own tournaments, poolplayers haven't learned that lesson yet. If I was writing this in 2103, I would be writing Golfers learned 150 years ago to run their own tournaments when will poolplayers learn that lesson.####