PDA

View Full Version : When to break up the blockers?



phil in sofla
06-09-2003, 10:28 PM
I generally kick ok, and most people I play don't attempt to 3-foul me. (One guy flat out said I kicked too well for his safety game, normally a strength for him that he beats people with, so he quit trying. But most of the people I play are just aggressive and try to run out more often than not.)

Playing in the stronger tournament two weekends ago, my opponent tried it a couple times, and succeeded in getting me on the 3rd foul once. After it happened, it seemed that I should have intentionally fouled on one of the earlier kick attempts to break the wall of blockers he was putting me behind. I mentioned that to him, and he said he thought I would have done exactly that.

But I don't know when to try the kick, or when to open up the blocking balls by intentionally hitting one of them as a foul.

Is there any kind of general rule of thumb you use to make that decision? Estimated chance of hitting the kick no less than x%, or something like that? I'm assuming if I'm going to intentionally foul to break up the blockers, I should try to tie up balls at the same time. Correct?

TIA for any feedback on this.

NH_Steve
06-10-2003, 05:53 AM
Do the blockers 'go' as they lie? Apparently they don't, in which case I would say you should definitely NOT open them up intentionally instead of trying to kick with your first attempt. If you open them up, it is much more likely that your opponent would get first crack at the ensuing run-out. If you're on three fouls, they already turned down two chances to run out with ball in hand -- that tells me they didn't like the layout. If you think your opponent would be favored to run out with ball in hand (if the balls were open), I'd say you have to kick again the second time, too. On the other hand, if the rack would still be a tough run out for your particular opponent even with the blocking cluster opened up, you could try using a foul to open them instead of a second attempt -- but realize there's no guarantee they won't come up with a good trap that risks a third foul anyway!

--> I used to like this part of nine ball play, until I got smart and realized it was the whole damn game of One Pocket -- so I switched /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Tom_In_Cincy
06-10-2003, 06:14 AM
[ QUOTE ]
--> I used to like this part of nine ball play, until I got smart and realized it was the whole damn game of One Pocket -- so I switched
<hr /></blockquote>
Spoken like a TRUE One Pocket fanatic. I like it. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

But Back to the Question.....
My frist thought after my opponent has 'safed' me, is to look a the 'cluster' that they might use again to play the same safe. If that cluster is a stopper from running out and also a great place to hide whitey (again), that's when I will have a better chance of staying in the game, by busting it up. Even if they run out, its better they earn the win this way than by 3 fouling me. IMO

cheesemouse
06-10-2003, 07:16 AM
[ QUOTE ]
But I don't know when to try the kick, or when to open up the blocking balls by intentionally hitting one of them as a foul.
<hr /></blockquote>

The less experience players don't seem to recognize the three foul situation early enough and put themselves in serious jeopardy by going for the kick that puts them on two fouls without concidering what happens if they fail in the attempt. Tom's reply is right on but I would add as a rule of thumb too ask yourself "if I miss this kick what is he likely to do with another BIH?" If the answer is he will have another wired safety where you will be screwed with another very low % shot for the hit then you should be thinking about shuffling the deck and taking your chances on a better lay of the balls.

Eric.
06-10-2003, 08:08 AM
Phil,

What's the lay of the table? I'm not answering your quetion with a question to be a wise guy, but I think every situation is different. For example, if there is a good cluster for your opponent to hook you with, what would the table look like if you broke it open? Can he run out from there? Can you intentionally foul on 2 and change the table without opening the rack? (see below)
http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html

START(
%Aq2N3%BQ4X3%C^6E4%Df2F1%EP7Z4%F^3P8%GR2T3%Hk2O4%I S7F7%JN6^3
%KI3^4%LM2_0%ML8\9%NK4]3%OO7^2%PN8X5
)END

If I was on 1 foul, since this kick is extremely unlikely, I would intentionally foul the 2 ball to the rail like this:

START(
%Aq2N3%BS6Z8%C^7E4%Dl2J3%EP7Z4%F^3P8%GR2T3%Hk2O4%I R6G7%JN6^3
%KI3^4%LM2_0%ML8\9%NK4]3%OO7^2%PU8S8%WR6Y4%XR1X9%Y\3N6%ZQ4W4
)END

This way, the three blocking balls are opened up, but it is still a tough table to run out.


Eric &gt;always looks good on paper

NH_Steve
06-10-2003, 02:11 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr>
Spoken like a TRUE One Pocket fanatic. I like it. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

But Back to the Question.....
My frist thought after my opponent has 'safed' me, is to look a the 'cluster' that they might use again to play the same safe. If that cluster is a stopper from running out and also a great place to hide whitey (again), that's when I will have a better chance of staying in the game, by busting it up. Even if they run out, its better they earn the win this way than by 3 fouling me. IMO <hr /></blockquote> Yes, but if you are going to open the cluster, I like the idea of using a foul to remove the easy jail situation, but doing it by purposefully creating another tie-up somewhere else, or by otherwise making the run out as tough as you can -- if it is possible to do that at the same time.

phil in sofla
06-10-2003, 03:23 PM
That's actually close to the situation I was in-- about 3 balls as blockers to the left side of the table, where the guy was putting me in jail repeatedly.

I guess the 3 ball blocking wall is just too huge, making getting snookered there again too likely, to let that happen.

BUT, there's the question of how likely you are to make the kick to avoid the second foul. In the case you show, that's is an unlikely kick to make. But if the kick is makeable, maybe 70% likely to hit it legally, would you go for it on '1,' and then break out the balls only on '2'?

tateuts
06-10-2003, 03:43 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote phil in sofla:</font><hr> But I don't know when to try the kick, or when to open up the blocking balls by intentionally hitting one of them as a foul. <hr /></blockquote>

Phil, I totally feel for you. But no - I think you did the right thing by attempting the kick shots. I think it's too risky to break up clusters and give your opponent ball in hand to run out. The fact is, by the time you realize you are in this situation, it's usually too late anyway.

I would look at it this way: he has to play a lot of great safes against you to win a game occasionally this way. In trying to do that, he's not running balls and he's risking a sell out each time he tries a safety. I think the odds are with you. I would rather be hooked and at the table than sitting watching him run out.

Chris

Eric.
06-10-2003, 04:26 PM
As far as trying a 70% makable kick or break up the blockers, I would ask myself 2 questions:

What is the likelyhood of him safe-ing me again?

Can I kick-safe as a return shot(what is the % for that?

If I couldn't kick with a good chance to get safe, I would break up the blockers and create a mess. If you kick and leave a shot, he may run out too.

Just some of my thoughts.

Eric