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06-14-2003, 12:44 AM
I am very competent with jump shots, but always use my shooting cue. I have heard rumors of the powers that be considering disallowing the short jump stick. Any input on this would be welcome. What I am most interested in,however, is whether or not any of the high speed photography was shot of jump shots, especially with the short stick. I would like to see this, for often it seems on these jumps, the contact is not "instantaneous", and am curious to the actual legality of the contact in a short stick jump. The angle seems to great, say at 2 inches from the impeding ball, for the contact to be instant, and still get up and over..

Jim Walker
06-14-2003, 05:53 AM
What the hell are you trying to say?
Is this one of your $20 lessons?
/ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

highsea
06-14-2003, 06:17 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Jim Walker:</font><hr> What the hell are you trying to say?
Is this one of your $20 lessons?
/ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif <hr /></blockquote>
I want my money back! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

-CM

Tom_In_Cincy
06-14-2003, 07:11 AM
I don't know where you live, but if you subscribed to any of the pool magazines you would have already known that the Jump Cue have been made legal by the BCA and WPA last January.

Are you really that far behind times?

Ralph S.
06-14-2003, 07:18 AM
LMAO Tom. It does seem apparent that Amgine is living in the cave-man era. /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif

06-14-2003, 10:51 PM
The short jump cue has been legal in the BCA guidelines for much longer than last January, for anyone's information, I believe the initial minimum length was 42 inches, and at this point it is 40 inches. That does not change the fact that over the last year I have participated in a number of tourneys where the short jump cue was disallowed...at tournament director's discretion.

I may be mistaken, but the caveman comment came from the fine member who stated he did not believe in Darwinism.Yes it was Ralph. I guess God popped a few cavemen down while he was creating man.I think Ralph you should decide what you actually believe...

My question stands, is there any information about the 40 inch minimum being considered for change, and is there any high speed footage of the short jump stick shot when the impeding ball is within a few inches?

nAz
06-14-2003, 11:06 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote amgine:</font><hr>My question stands, is there any information about the 40 inch minimum being considered for change, and is there any high speed footage of the short jump stick shot when the impeding ball is within a few inches? <hr /></blockquote>

Good question I too would like to see that type of footage.
I'm sure someone out there must have tried to Film it.

06-14-2003, 11:15 PM
If you perform the jump shot correctly, you throw the cue into the shot letting it go sliding through your fingers. the light cue hits the cue ball and simply bounces back off it clearing out of the way and not producing a foul or double hit. The length of the cue is not important, the key thing is the weight. Get it at 7oz and it works great. You can jump with a 30" short stick,or even a mop or broom with no tip, all work just great. It is a legal shot.
The Ice Mon

Tom_In_Cincy
06-14-2003, 11:20 PM
I suggest checking out the BCA or WPA website for the latest cue specs.

No high speed video has been made(that I know of) of the jump cue in action.

06-14-2003, 11:23 PM
Thanks for the info, I understand the theory behind the jump, I am just not convinced that on an extreme angle jump there is no extra contact. If I am not mistaken, a 30" cue would be illegal, and in tournament play I hesitate to the legality of a broom. Once Ronnie O' Sullivan was heavily reprimanded for shooting a match with his off hand, based on sportsmanship issues.

06-14-2003, 11:33 PM
I donít see why jump or break cues are even allowed. I can understand having the different clubs in golf. You are hitting a small ball over hundreds of yards. With pool you have a 4 Ĺ x 9 field at most and balls at least twice the size. Jump/Break cues seem, well, a little much.

06-15-2003, 12:50 AM
Re: the $20 lesson
I venture to the fine members that if they had one of my lessons, they would learn things they had never considered, and would be introduced to different thought patterns that would allow much better self teaching, which, in my opinion, is the key.

There is also a "secret to pool" which I have seen discussed much, but have never seen the answer that I give my pupils. I know for a fact Scott Lee does not know it, and I suspect very few do, and for good reason do not share it.

And because I prefer to teach two at once, both you dufuses could split the very reasonable cost, and therefore have a chance to digest information and practice it, before the next concept is introduced to each individual, rather than have 3 or more hours deluged upon you.

eg8r
06-15-2003, 12:50 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I donít see why jump or break cues are even allowed. I can understand having the different clubs in golf. <font color="blue"> Different clubs for different shots </font color>

You are hitting a small ball over hundreds of yards. <font color="blue"> This is not true on close putts, however you will not see the golfer use his driver on this shot. </font color>

With pool you have a 4 Ĺ x 9 field at most and balls at least twice the size. Jump/Break cues seem, well, a little much. <font color="blue"> Just like in Golf, different cues for different shots. </font color> <hr /></blockquote>

Here is one example in golf that is similar to pool. The ball is in the sand a foot away from the wall of the trap. Does the golfer use his driver to pop that ball straight up in the air and forward 3 feet to get out of the trap and onto the green? There are different clubs for a reason likewise in pool.

I can understand someone not allowing the other to use his jump cue when they play. Sure it is a weapon that the other player does not want to deal with. I think the player with the jump cue should then offer to the other player (the one not allowing use of jump cue) no safeties will be allowed in which I am forced to jump out of. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif Fair is fair.

eg8r

eg8r
06-15-2003, 12:53 AM
[ QUOTE ]
There is also a "secret to pool" which I have seen discussed much, but have never seen the answer that I give my pupils. I know for a fact Scott Lee does not know it, and I suspect very few do, and for good reason do not share it. <hr /></blockquote> Fast is that you. Seems a little jealousy is creeping in and someone wants to get an edge. Oh puhleeeeze tell me this secret. I promise I will not tell Scott. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

eg8r

06-15-2003, 01:00 AM
Hell would freeze over before I took a lesson from you man. If you offered to pay me I would decline. Using the word "dufuses" when refering to potential students (customers) is cutting your own throat. While you may have some valid points or some knowledge you are making damn sure no one on this board is going to listen to you. If you like to stir up crap on a message board, fine. But do it intelligently. You are basiclly asking for anything you get.

06-15-2003, 01:43 AM
My opinion is that pool should be played with one stick. No break cue, no jump cue. Then the playing field is level. I know this will never happen, but I would definitely agree with making the minimum stick say 50 inches.

In response to jealousy issues, and turning off potential students, let me remind you that i am not foolish enough to get involved in this or any board, and disclose my identity, for I am too aware of political ramifications in any forum. And some members might fall on their respective faces if my identity was disclosed. I am quite happy doing what I do, which is play pool, and am only jealous of those who achieve the world No. 1 status. I also am in the position where I pick and choose my students, and have certain criteria for my services. perhaps the two dufuses would fit these criteria...perhaps not.

and as for Mr. Lee, poor picked on individual, i look forward to the next meeting on the table. I am quite sure however, that we could learn from each other.

Scott Lee
06-15-2003, 03:29 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote amgine:</font><hr> and as for Mr. Lee, poor picked on individual, i look forward to the next meeting on the table. I am quite sure however, that we could learn from each other. <hr /></blockquote>

amgine...Let's see! First you state catagorically that you are POSITIVE that I do not know your "secret", yet you do not know me, nor know anything about how or what I teach!
Then, in the next post, you offer to "meet me on the table", as a challenge???...and in the same breath, actually say something positive and most likely true...that we likely could learn something from each other. I take any and all advantages to meet with other instructors to share information regarding teaching techniques, as well as just to socialize over the pool table. I do this all over the country, and have met many fine instructors, including several that post here. You, on the other hand, don't seem to want to identify yourself, or let it be known where you live, so that a meeting MIGHT possibly take place at some future date. From reading your other posts, it is obvious that you have a very good working knowledge of the game. Your tact, on the other hand, could use some brushing up.
I have neither badmouthed you, nor maligned your 'pool knowledge'...yet you feel like you have to right to do both to me. Something strange here... BTW, I am certainly not interested in a "Showdown of the Internet Instructors", as I feel ego is one of the most overblown parts of this sport.
If you would like to participate in a 'friendly' discussion, and perhaps a 'friendly' match...I'd be more than happy to kick YOUR ass (on the table of course)! LOL
...and if you happened to play better? Well, then I'd shake your hand, and compliment you on your skill! It's not about who 'knows' more, teaches 'better', or 'plays' the best. It's about comraderie, fellowship, and shared interests! Why is that so difficult for you to understand?

BTW, amgine, I feel neither maligned, 'picked on', or have any need for my "groupies", as you described them, to come to my defense, or aid. People respond to you that way, more because of the way you come off, rather than the subject matter.

I merely stated a situation in a poolroom that I felt was unwarranted, and wanted to get some opinions from some other room owners. As yet, we haven't heard from any of them. There are several that post here regularly (and I know them, but won't "out" them here). I welcome any critcism, suggestions, or points-of-view by them. If any of you room owners would care to comment to me privately, please do so in a PM or email, and it will remain between us.

Scott Lee

eg8r
06-15-2003, 10:08 AM
[ QUOTE ]
In response to jealousy issues, and turning off potential students, let me remind you that i am not foolish enough to get involved in this or any board, and disclose my identity, for I am too aware of political ramifications in any forum. And some members might fall on their respective faces if my identity was disclosed. I am quite happy doing what I do, which is play pool, and am only jealous of those who achieve the world No. 1 status. <hr /></blockquote> I think it sounds a little like you are scared to death you might live near Eric. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif I never met a egotist of your size who wanted to stay anonymous. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif You probably are not even who you "think" you are.

As far as only one cue for playing, that is fine with me, but state it in the beginning. Don't say a word in the middle of the game.

eg8r

Fred Agnir
06-15-2003, 10:32 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote amgine:</font><hr> I would like to see this, for often it seems on these jumps, the contact is not "instantaneous", and am curious to the actual legality of the contact in a short stick jump. <hr /></blockquote>Why would you think any legal contact is "instantaneous"? Did someone say "instantaneous"? It's a question with a poor premise, so any answer that high-speed photography gives wouldn't answer anything.

How long of a contact time do you think happens on a jump shot such that it would be "illegal"?

Fred &lt;~~~ doesn't think any tip/cueball contact is "instantaneous"

06-15-2003, 10:53 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote amgine:</font><hr> and as for Mr. Lee, poor picked on individual, i look forward to the next meeting on the table. I am quite sure however, that we could learn from each other. <hr /></blockquote>

Dear Mr. Amgine, You sir are indeed entitled to your opinions and I shall of course weight them carefully. Jack Nicklaus does not tee off with one club, he has 14 to handle the many different shots that will come up. It's the same in pool, you need more than one club in your bag, you need a playing cue, a breaking cue, a jump cue and a special Masse cue, plus different shafts. That is where the game is headed. You know they are right, you do sound a lot like Larry when he first came on this board, before he learned to clean up his act and shut up his mouth. How about you at least prove to us, you are not Larry, just do that, give us some clue what general area you are from.

amgine...Let's see! First you state catagorically that you are POSITIVE that I do not know your "secret", yet you do not know me, nor know anything about how or what I teach!
Then, in the next post, you offer to "meet me on the table", as a challenge???...and in the same breath, actually say something positive and most likely true...that we likely could learn something from each other. I take any and all advantages to meet with other instructors to share information regarding teaching techniques, as well as just to socialize over the pool table. I do this all over the country, and have met many fine instructors, including several that post here. You, on the other hand, don't seem to want to identify yourself, or let it be known where you live, so that a meeting MIGHT possibly take place at some future date. From reading your other posts, it is obvious that you have a very good working knowledge of the game. Your tact, on the other hand, could use some brushing up.
I have neither badmouthed you, nor maligned your 'pool knowledge'...yet you feel like you have to right to do both to me. Something strange here... BTW, I am certainly not interested in a "Showdown of the Internet Instructors", as I feel ego is one of the most overblown parts of this sport.
If you would like to participate in a 'friendly' discussion, and perhaps a 'friendly' match...I'd be more than happy to kick YOUR ass (on the table of course)! LOL
...and if you happened to play better? Well, then I'd shake your hand, and compliment you on your skill! It's not about who 'knows' more, teaches 'better', or 'plays' the best. It's about comraderie, fellowship, and shared interests! Why is that so difficult for you to understand?

BTW, amgine, I feel neither maligned, 'picked on', or have any need for my "groupies", as you described them, to come to my defense, or aid. People respond to you that way, more because of the way you come off, rather than the subject matter.

I merely stated a situation in a poolroom that I felt was unwarranted, and wanted to get some opinions from some other room owners. As yet, we haven't heard from any of them. There are several that post here regularly (and I know them, but won't "out" them here). I welcome any critcism, suggestions, or points-of-view by them. If any of you room owners would care to comment to me privately, please do so in a PM or email, and it will remain between us.

Scott Lee

<hr /></blockquote>