PDA

View Full Version : WPBA Tournament Report - Alternating Breaks-Long



Fran Crimi
06-17-2003, 08:29 AM
Thought I'd share my experience in the last event.

As you know, Carol and I drew each other the first match. She played great!! Would do any teacher proud. It won't be too long before she poses a serious threat. She was pocketing balls from everywhere and ran out some extremely difficult racks. Good for you, Carol!

My second match against Karen Corr was great fun (except I lost). I only missed one ball, yet lost 9-5. Here's how I lost the set:

We started off trading racks, each of us breaking and running out our respective racks. The first game I lost was due to a weird scratch. I had to draw off of another ob to bring the cb up table for position. The cb took off like a dart and scratched off another ball. Bummer. In hindsight, I probably would play safe the next time I see that situation.

The next game that cost me was the only ball I missed in the set. Shooting a tough 6 ball jacked up over another ball. Very makable, but I didn't take enough time on the shot.

The third game I lost was another scratch. Karen played a great safe and put me in this position:

START(
%Hr9N5%II8N2%PC9R6%Wq6N8%XD5R7%[D9D3%\r3N1%]s2Z3%^r4O1

)END

The cb was nearly frozen to the bottom rail and it was tough all around so I decided to go for the bank. I saw the potential for the scratch in the upper right corner because I knew I'd have to hit it hard to make the bank because there was too much angle to soft stroke it. I fired in the bank as hard as I could and the cb bobbled the right corner pocket and dropped in. Rats.

The last game I lost was by not making a ball on the break. Karen ran out that rack.

Karen of course, played flawlessly, and gives away ice in the winter to her opponents, so there was nothing for me to capitalize on in the match to win any of those games back.

My next match against Ming Ng was also a very high caliber match and we both traded racks up through 6-6. Then suddenly I was down on a 1 ball and started feeling dizzy and exhausted. I couldn't hold my focus and couldn't figure out what was going on. I missed it and two easy shots after that. I was totally confused as to what happened. An hour later I found out. My throat had closed up and I developed a serious throat and sinus infection. I still can't hear out of one ear. Funny how it kicked in right in the middle of the match.

Ming, of course, played beautifully and capitalized on my misses and won the match.

Anyway----the alternating break format makes for a very interesting format. You absolutely have to make a ball on the break because your opponent gets to break the next game. Not making a ball could cost you two games. Breaking and getting control of the table early on now becomes more important than it ever did.

Fran

Eric.
06-17-2003, 08:46 AM
Thanks for the insider view, Fran. Sounds like it was a hard fought match with Karen. Just curious how Karen is adjusting to the "new" rack. Has she worked on her hard break? I'm guessing that the cut break won't be as effective with the "new" rack.

I've always liked the Alternating break. One thing about it, you know you'll have a chance to shoot(someone won't run the set out on ya!). Although it can be rough. As you pointed out, a miss can turn into a 2 game swing, which also doesn't allow you to string a couple to get back in it...

Eric >whose break is it(!)

Wally_in_Cincy
06-17-2003, 09:39 AM
Thanks for the report.

Sounds like you played pretty well against Corr. It's just hard to beat someone who never misses /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

What do the players think of the alternate break? I think it's better for the fans. I personally like to see up-and-comers and lesser known players. That's why I've always liked college and minor-league baseball.

Let's say I'm a fan of a qualifier and she draws Fisher in the 1st round. I at least will get to see her play a few games.

Rich R.
06-17-2003, 09:40 AM
Great post Fran.
Obviously, playing at that level does not allow for errors or a little bad luck. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif Especially against Karen.

By nursing Carol, it sounds like you came down with the bug that got her. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Fran Crimi
06-17-2003, 11:45 AM
Karen seems to have adjusted well. She breaks from the side rail and usually makes either the one in the side or the corner ball, or both. She breaks pretty hard and solid.

She was very meticulous in checking every rack, though. Once she asked for a rerack saying the one ball was slightly off. I looked at it and she was right but you needed a magnifying glass to see it, it was so close you couldn't see any light between the balls.

Fran

nAz
06-17-2003, 11:48 AM
Fran great match against Corr!
I was told you played very well.

Fran Crimi
06-17-2003, 11:50 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr>
What do the players think of the alternate break? I think it's better for the fans. I personally like to see up-and-comers and lesser known players. That's why I've always liked college and minor-league baseball.

Let's say I'm a fan of a qualifier and she draws Fisher in the 1st round. I at least will get to see her play a few games. <hr /></blockquote>


Wally, I'm not sure what the general feeling is among the players about the alternating breaks. No one is really saying much about it. I'd imagine the stronger players miss the opportunity to string racks, though. But overall, I think you're right, that it's more interesting for the fans to watch.

One thing that I don't miss, and that's having your opponent make the 9 on the break and then break again and have a dead-on one-nine combination. Ouch. That hurts. Now you can only have one lucky break in a row. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Fran

Chris in NC
06-17-2003, 12:39 PM
Fran, I would say what really hurts the most is when you fight back to get a match to hill-hill, then have to sit helplessly and watch if your opponent break and win the game without you even having a chance to get to the table.

I don't think it would be asking too much for the players to at least lag to see who breaks in that final hill-hill game. Keep in mind that in an alternating break format coming in to that hill-hill game both players have broken the same amount of games. I guess that's the value of winning the lag at the beginning of the match - as that guarantees you'll have the break in the hill-hill game.

It just seems to make sense to me that the player that comes from behind and forces the hill-hill final game deserves the opportunity to break in that final game - regardless of whether it's their turn to break in the alternating break format. What do you think?

cuechick
06-17-2003, 02:30 PM
Great post, very interesting. I hope you feel 100% soon.

I love the alternating break format, it makes it so much more exciting. Imagine how boring tennis would be if the winner always served!
Pool is one of the few sports where concievably, one player may actually not get a chance to play at all. I do think Chris from NC has a point, a lag at double hill seems reasonable...

06-17-2003, 03:17 PM
Cuechick said:

I love the alternating break format, it makes it so much more exciting. Imagine how boring tennis would be if the winner always served!

Speaking of tennis ... last week, I think, Popcorn posted about handling the hill-hill problem by requiring a win by two games. Don't know if anyone here watched the epic Andy Roddick match at the U.S. Open last year that went to 21-19 in the fifth set, but imagine alternate breaks between, say, Efren and Mika, and the set going to such a score, with each one trying to win that crucial game against the other's break. Any tournaments use such a format?

Fran Crimi
06-17-2003, 03:28 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris in NC:</font><hr>
I don't think it would be asking too much for the players to at least lag to see who breaks in that final hill-hill game. Keep in mind that in an alternating break format coming in to that hill-hill game both players have broken the same amount of games. I guess that's the value of winning the lag at the beginning of the match - as that guarantees you'll have the break in the hill-hill game.

It just seems to make sense to me that the player that comes from behind and forces the hill-hill final game deserves the opportunity to break in that final game - regardless of whether it's their turn to break in the alternating break format. What do you think?
<hr /></blockquote>

I see your point, Chris and I'm not sure how I feel about that yet. Previously, when the winner broke, the benefit of winning the lag was that the breaker had the first shot at stringing racks and getting a substantial lead on their opponent. That's no longer the case.

Really, the most important advantage of winning the lag in the alternate break format is the advantage of breaking in a hill-hill game. If you take that away then there really isn't much of a reward for winning the lag.

Having the players lag on a hill-hill game implies that the match has ended and a new race to 1 begins. I'm not sure I like that idea.

Fran

Alfie
06-17-2003, 06:17 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris in NC:</font><hr>I don't think it would be asking too much for the players to at least lag to see who breaks in that final hill-hill game.<hr /></blockquote>redundant

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris in NC:</font><hr>I guess that's the value of winning the lag at the beginning of the match - as that guarantees you'll have the break in the hill-hill game.<hr /></blockquote>sufficient

imo

06-17-2003, 07:41 PM
Fran, I have seen you play a couple of times. May I say you play a wonderful game and you are a wonderful person. The board is indeed fortunate to have a player of your high calibur posting. I always enjoy what you say.

I am a older guy from the old school, I am a apa 6. I came up in an era of 9 ball players running racks. Nothing was more thrilling than to see Medina run 9 straight racks taking out Billy Incardona, now that is pool. That is one of my favorite accustat tapes. When you do the alternating rack, you destroy all of the excitment of the 9 ball game.

Trying to fix 9 ball is like trying to fix a NYC taxi cab, you can't do it becaused it is trashed. Trying to make 9 ball a fair game is impossible, it was never a fair game, it is a gambling game of lucky rolls. Nobody ever intended for it to ever be a test of championship abilities. You people need to change the game, not fix something that cannot be fixed.

You Lady players are great, they have you stuck playing a now boring game, putting every one to sleep, and it is not drawing flies at a Texas Bar B Q, excuse me ma'am, I am from Dallas, so I can make fun of our flies, down here, they are twice the size of your Long Island flies.
The Ice Mon

06-17-2003, 08:45 PM
Eric, when you post all of your aka's on your post, are you finally confessing to being the board trasher and stalker. Is yappin wolf really your girlfriend. It is about time you came clean with us. No be a good boy and fly right son.
The Ice Mon

Deniel
06-17-2003, 10:02 PM
"Any tournaments use such a format? "
I believe the Asian 9 Ball Tour use this format, so in hill hill situation, the winner must win by 2 racks differentiate. I happened to saw it once in the Semifinal of the Mnila lag, Warren Kiamco beat Jeong (something, can't remember his name ^__^) 13-11 in a race to eleven match. That was some match ^__^

SRpool
06-17-2003, 11:16 PM
I agree with Fran that the alternate break is a good thing and a bad thing. It is very hard to come back once you are down because the other person always has a chance to break and run out or make the 9 on the break. But when you do come back..which has been happening lately in the tournaments, you have to hope you won the lag. It happened to me in a match, I came back and then ended up losing because the opponent broke and ran out. But, also like Fran, i disagree with the idea of lagging a second time, it does seem like the match is over and another is starting. with the new format it is definitely more important to win the lag and then not to dog it if it goes hill-hill. But it does give exposure in match to both players and one cannot dominate. But, people do perform differently under the pressure of having to break and run or hold your serve. just my opinion.

sarah rousey

Rich R.
06-18-2003, 04:25 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote gna:</font><hr> Eric, when you post all of your aka's on your post, are you finally confessing to being the board trasher and stalker. Is yappin wolf really your girlfriend. It is about time you came clean with us. No be a good boy and fly right son.
The Ice Mon <hr /></blockquote>
I think Eric's joke went right over your head. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Wally_in_Cincy
06-18-2003, 06:58 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote gna:</font><hr> Eric, when you post all of your aka's on your post, are you finally confessing to being the board trasher and stalker. Is yappin wolf really your girlfriend. It is about time you came clean with us. No be a good boy and fly right son.
The Ice Mon <hr /></blockquote>

Eric would not waste his time with you.

Eric posts under his real name, unlike some people, (like gna, aka pac-man, aka Fast Larry).

Wally~~seen enough of the Emperor's new clothes

Ralph S.
06-18-2003, 07:17 AM
Sounds like you played a tough match for being under the weather Fran. Better luck to you next time. As for the alternating break format, I am in favor of it. This is my reason why...who likes a blow-out in football, basketball, or any other sport? The closer the game , the more exciting and enjoyable it is to the fans.

CarolNYC
06-18-2003, 07:59 AM
Thanks Fran, and Im sorry, but you neglected to mention some details of the trip and I just have to throw it in here-definitely non-pool-related:(as brief as I can)
We land in Chicago Midway-I tell Fran my throat feels scratchy-we think nothing of it and start our 150 mile drive to Peoria. Im driving and humming the "Twilight Zone" theme because Im out in Gods country seeing the same farms,land,water,trees and feel like Im getting nowhere!LMAO-and every once in awhile,Im coughing.
We get to hotel and Im not feeling right so I keep my distance and kinda just wave hello,till I know what the heck is going on with me and do not want to get anyone else sick!We have dinner and settle in for the night! Well, its Wednesday evening and I have this massive coughing attack-I get up at 5 am-go out and RUN across this highway-mind you ,run ,because the traffic light is 4 seconds,ha ha ha ha
and pick up Vicks Formula 44-I come back and take it and Im good to go-Im determined to beat this bug!We play our match and my worst nightmare is over:):):)Way to go Fran!
So, every 4-6 hours Im taking Vicks 44, on top of every vitamin you can imagine-come Thursday evening,once again, massive coughing attack and Im awakened Friday morning by a sound that can only be described as a garbage dumpster being dragged by a garbage truck-I open the curtains and its a TORRENTIAL downpour with the most lightning I've ever seen in my life and at one point, the TV blows out! ha ha ha-well, Fran sees Im NOT doing too good and decides to play "Florence Nightingale" and goes out in this incredible weather to get me some health aids-and although I asked her not to go, her logic was "Just think of it, the stores will be empty" ha ha ha-she comes back with hot tea,ECHINACEA,broth,ham and egg on roll and more cough medicine-OMG, Im just like forever grateful!
I play my next match and lose and phone home-it seems that the Sunday before we left, I had a family celebration and SOMEONE was sick and didnt know it-incubation period ~ 2 days-because my sister,brother,niece and nephew were all sick, to the point where they took off work(my sister&amp;brother)
So, it wasnt the man snoring on the plane behind me blowing germs my way,ha ha ha,I had it before I left-so now,Im horrified because, if its a two day incubation,Frans gonna catch it, and she did!Right in the middle of her match!
When the score was 6-6, she said to me "Gosh, it seems like the balls are becoming such an effort!" Bam, I knew then, she was getting the bug-I never heard Fran say anything was an effort-not even a torrential downpour!
So,Fran,I know your feeling better now,I am too,with antibiotics and Echinacea,this folks, was our "Perils of Peoria"
Stay well!
Carol~will carry Echinacea in the future!:):):):):)

Barbara
06-18-2003, 08:07 AM
I know just what you had, too! It's a 48-hour thing that starts off with a sore throat and gets worse the second day. I've had it twice in two months. I haven't hacked and coughed this much since I gave up smoking.

At least you'll be okay for this weekend! /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Barbara

Charley
06-18-2003, 08:33 AM
Carol,

I watched most of your last match and could tell you were sick. You were coughing alot and you just looked like you were feeling miserable, but you gutted it out right to the end. Better luck (and health) next time.

P.S. That grey outfit looked terrific.

CF

Fran Crimi
06-18-2003, 08:41 AM
Yup. It's brutal. It went straight for my sinuses and my ear finally unclogged just this morning.

Barbara, you would have cracked-up if you were in the car with us on the way to Peoria. I fell asleep for about a half hour during the drive and when I woke up I thought Carol had gotten lost because we passed the exact same farm and exact same cornfield. She said No, we're on a different road. It was definitely Twilight Zone stuff. Everything looked the same. Then the sky got really dark with very ominous looking clouds, and Carol said it looked just like the Wizard of Oz before the tornado hit. Comforting thought.

There was nothing but cornfields everywhere. Corn and more corn and by the end of the drive I told Carol I swear the corn grew a couple of inches.

Fran

9 Ball Girl
06-18-2003, 08:47 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> There was nothing but cornfields everywhere. Corn and more corn and by the end of the drive I told Carol I swear the corn grew a couple of inches.

Fran <hr /></blockquote>Hahahahaha! Betcha won't look at corn the same way again! All this corn talk is making me think of Chris Cass! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif Sounds like you guys had fun aside from being sick but stories like those are what makes a trip the more memorable.../ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Fran Crimi
06-18-2003, 09:01 AM
You're right, Wendy! That's Cass territory! I ran into him last year at the Peoria event. He was playing in the team event next door and said he drove three or four hours to get there. Same corn I think. Hahaha!

I'll tell you...you never know what can happen on these trips. Crazy stuff. I think the craziest for me was the time I was chased down a highway in Phoenix by a refrigerator that fell off a truck. The refrigerator was going 60 right next to me and I had all to do to get out of the way of the damn thing. I thought it was going to blow up with all the sparks coming out from under it. Then the doors blew open and all the glass shelves and egg crates crashed into my lane. My mind was flashing on how I was going to explain this to the rental car company. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Fran

SRpool
06-18-2003, 02:32 PM
Fran and Carol,
You girl don't like all the corn?? I forget you don't get to see that much around where you live. It's one of the joys of living in IL....miles and miles of corn.(not really) Next year you guys should fly into Bloomington, then you only have to drive about half an hour through yet the same corn fields. I'm glad you are both feeling better and sorry it hit you during the tournament. Carol I thought you seemed a little under the weather, usually you are so talkative and cheerful...this time just a smile and simple hello. but there is nothing wrong with that, glad you are better. take care.

sarah

Fran Crimi
06-18-2003, 04:09 PM
Hey Sarah,

The only corn Carol and I see is in the frozen food section of the supermarket. /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif I recently took up gardening and after this trip I was thinking of planting corn in the front yard. I figured I'd better not because it'd probably make the headlines of the New York Times. "WACKO GROWS CORN IN NYC FRONT YARD AFTER EXPERIENCING CORN IN ILLINOIS"

Carol and I actually enjoyed the drive. We'll probably do it again next year. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Fran

Vagabond
06-18-2003, 06:57 PM
I love corn fields.cheers
Vagabond /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Fran Crimi
06-18-2003, 08:38 PM
Happy Birthday Vagabond. You were missed in Peoria.

Fran

SRpool
06-19-2003, 12:57 PM
yea Fran, I would not recommend planting corn in your front yard, then I might have to send you a John Deere tractor like the farmers here in IL use. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif glad you enjoyed it though, see you in New Mexico.

Sarah

CarolNYC
06-20-2003, 03:15 AM
Hi there,
Thank you for the compliment on the outfit-that was very nice!
Maybe next time we'll meet:):):)
Take care!
Carol~ NEXT!:)

CarolNYC
06-20-2003, 03:33 AM
Hey Barb,
Have you EVER known ME to miss a tournament? ha ha ha
NOT!
See ya this weekend!
Carol:):)

CarolNYC
06-20-2003, 03:43 AM
Hey Sarah,
How are you? First and foremost I'd like to say "Great Shooting!" You played awesome-way to go-keep up the good work:):):)
Thanks for the word on Bloomington, but I enjoyed the ride-at least I seen 150 miles of Illinois-never been there!Yes, anyone who compares the rumbling of thunder to the dragging of a dumpster definitely comes from some kind of city! ha ha ha
Honestly, Illinois was wonderful-the spectators were very kind,supportive and enthusiastic-a great atmosphere to be in!
Sorry about the distance, but I wouldnt have been able to forgive myself if I caused someone else to fall ill-
You take care and hope to see you soon!
Carol:)

CarolNYC
06-20-2003, 03:49 AM
Vagabond,
Are you from "The Children of the Corn?"
Happy Birthday!
Carol~will take a beach on Maui over a cornfield!:):):)

sledhamrbrk
06-20-2003, 12:10 PM
Sarah,

I was driving down the road the other day and seen something very interesting in the corn field.(Nate swears he did'nt do it).Send me an email and I will clue you in.

sboyd@cuesportcollege.com

Melissa in CA
06-21-2003, 12:47 PM
Hi all,

I just wanted to throw my 2 cents in as well. The alternating break format is creating some very exciting matches this year. During the Peoria event, I walked in to prepare for my match, and the previous round was still finishing up. During that round, at least 4 of the 8 matches had gone hill-hill and the audience was glued to their seats. It didn't matter that some of those matches were not featuring top names....it was the excitement of hill-hill that sucked them right in. As loud as it got in that arena...you might have thought it was Allison and Karen playing in the finals. In addition, audiences love rooting for an "underdog". The alternating break formats is helping to create new WPBA stars by allowing them to play and not have to sit in their chairs while certain snooker players string racks together. I know that many fans feel this isn't fair....that players should simply rise to the challenge and play at Allison or Karen's level....but the truth is, there are many talented young players out there right now who are starting to make a name for themselves because the alternating break format guarantees them the chance to play and show what they have (Sarah Rousey is my favorite example of this). And while this format may favor the "lesser player", you will notice that the same players are still winning.

As for re-lagging at hill-hill, I am in agreement with Sarah and Fran on this. The reward for winning the lag is that you get the final break in a hill-hill match. This should not be taken away from a player simply because the other player fought hard and made a comeback in a match. (And by the way, in Peoria, I lost a hill-hill match even though I broke in the final game...and I won a hill-hill match even though my opponent broke in the final game...so it didn't really seem to matter in those 2 instances).

Anyhow, I just wanted to throw those thoughts out there.

Melissa Herndon