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tateuts
06-18-2003, 01:47 PM
There is a lot of talk about gambling here.

Some of you seem nervous about gambling. If you cannot bring your "A" game to the table with money and are losing consistently to people who you think you should beat for the cash, this post is for you.

There are some aspects of gambling that can help to improve your game - immensely. If you are an intermediate or advanced player, it's hard to get really good matches without having something on it.

If you are gambling for the thrill, or to win money, because you need or want it, this post is not for you. There are a lot of wrong ways to gamble. Don't become someone elses action or sucker.

But here is how I use gambling to improve my own game, so I am better prepared in tournament play.

The main thing about gambling is, if you're nervous about the money, the ego, or the match, you're not going to play your best - initially. I stress initially. I see too many people get blown out of the first set or two and quit. That should absolutely never happen.

Here are the rules I go by:

- I always play an opponent who has a reasonable chance of beating me, and that I have a reasonable chance of beating.

- I select who I want to play and when. I only play with people I respect. (If someone asks me to play, I'll usually set up a date if I want to play them).

- The game and the bet are determined in advance of the match, and how time will be paid for (usually split).

- I don't give or get weight.

- I don't gamble with friends (except for time or dinner).

I try to figure out how much time I might have (but I never reveal this to an opponent, see below), usually a minimum of 3 to 4 hours to devote. I figure out how much I'm willing to lose if I lose the entire time. Let's say $100 for the heck of it and I have 4 hours to play. Each 9 ball race to 9 might take an hour. So I can have 4 races to 9 for $25. If I have three hours it would be 4 races to 7. If I lose all 4, I'm out $100. I consider that money "spent".

Here's why. I know I'll be nervous the first race and make mistakes. I don't know if my opponent will be. If he is, we will nullify each others mistakes and we will both settle down faster - so be it. If he isn't he will clean my clock until I calm down.

Gambling and pool and matches have a certain ebb and flow. If you are a nervous player, you're going to have an adrenaline pump that will last for awhile (usually 15 - 20 minutes) and play poorly for a while, usually one or two sets max.

Just knowing you have a plan will help you relax! .

You will not play good when your heart is pumping and your hands are shaking. If you are in this state, your opponent is probably now drilling you. He might be running racks with a nice spring to his step, smirking to himself knowingly, realizing he has you. He might even wiggle his butt a little when he's down on a shot like a happy little rabbit.

You have to turn this to your advantage. This is the intimidation stage. He thinks he's won. If you fire back, there a chance to turn the momentum your way.

Here's how you turn it around. Football and basketball games are never determined at half time, right? Look at this stage like it's half time.

You keep playing. You calm down, gather your thoughts, relax and play pool. You make balls, you think, you play safe. Mainly, you keep trying, and concentrate.

If you are better than your opponent, now you will win.

If you are not, now you will know.

Chris

bolo
06-18-2003, 03:05 PM
Gambling and tournament play are two different things. Most good tournament players are good money players, but not all good money players do good in tournaments. I am not sure gambling would help your tournament play at all. There is not much pressure gambling, since you can just play as long as you want, you tend to play much more relaxed, even for high stakes, then in the sudden death play of tournaments. I think that is why a lot of money players don't like tournaments. They want to say, lets play some more and raise the bet, except in a tournament, the match is over and all you can do is be a good sport, even if the other player can't play a lick.

tateuts
06-18-2003, 04:03 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bolo:</font><hr> Gambling and tournament play are two different things. Most good tournament players are good money players, but not all good money players do good in tournaments. I am not sure gambling would help your tournament play at all. There is not much pressure gambling, since you can just play as long as you want, you tend to play much more relaxed, even for high stakes, then in the sudden death play of tournaments. I think that is why a lot of money players don't like tournaments. They want to say, lets play some more and raise the bet, except in a tournament, the match is over and all you can do is be a good sport, even if the other player can't play a lick. <hr /></blockquote>

A lot of the gambling I see is really stupid. A guy falls behind quickly and quits, or loses his temper and wants to jack up the bet to get even, losing even more. Another wants weight. Another offers weight. Another bets so-and-so they can't make this shot or that shot. Another won't give a tight rack. Bad lines, backers, chatter and sharking abound. High rolling and even downright cheating.

What a low-life way to shoot pool!

That's why I don't technically consider what I'm doing as "gambling" but more as "matches" or wagering and why it improves my game. If they're going to get my money, or get even if I've got theirs, they're going to have to shoot their butt off to get it. That's what makes you better!

Plus, you would be amazed at the quality of player I can match up with by setting up the game this way. They know I'm not a hustler or big time gambler and it's refreshing for them to play someone even, with their own money in a fair match with no backers involved. Most of the good tournament players actually consider this "sparring" or "practice".

Tournament play is different because there is no time to settle into the game. Getting off to a fast start and momentum is more crucial. Good players don't give you too many chances to get back! Usually momentum is measured by breaks, rolls, intimidation, and who blows the easy runout first.

Chris

Rich R.
06-19-2003, 05:03 AM
Gambling DOES NOT improve your pool game.

The only thing that will improve your pool game is good practice.

Winning at pool, while gambling is a matter of controling a stressful situation.

cheesemouse
06-19-2003, 06:07 AM
Rich R,

[ QUOTE ]
Gambling DOES NOT improve your pool game<hr /></blockquote>

Hummmmmm.......it improved mine...I must be weird... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

bolo
06-19-2003, 07:41 AM
I am curious why you think gambling is a stressful situation? It is far less stressful then tournament play. In fact it is totally relaxing and fun, you are in command of the situation unlike in a tournament. Do you get stressed when you go out to dinner worrying about the bill, or on vacation about what everything cost? Everything cost money and if you win or lose a few buck pursuing your hobby of pool so what. Be glad your hobby is not boating of flying. I see players freak out over losing $50.00 bucks, the same guys who think nothing of spending hundreds a month just on table time. I don't think it is the money at all they stress out over but their egos if they get beat.

Billy
06-19-2003, 08:11 AM
mine too

Qtec
06-19-2003, 08:23 AM
All depends on how much money you can afford to lose .

Lets say you just got paid . Your wife is waiting for you and you have to go to the bank and settle a bill .
You are in a bar and somehow youve got yourself into a situation with some heavy guys and you break , one goes down and you have to clear to break even ?

Stressful or fun???. It all depends .

Q

Rich R.
06-19-2003, 08:27 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cheesemouse:</font><hr> Rich R,

&lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
Gambling DOES NOT improve your pool game<hr /></blockquote>

Hummmmmm.......it improved mine...I must be weird... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>

So you are saying that the act of making a bet, improved your pool game.

Sorry Cheese, but I don't buy that.

Maybe, you were playing a little more and improving. Maybe you simply concentrate a little more when money is on the line. But that act of making a bet, does not make you a better pool player. JMHO.

Rich R.
06-19-2003, 08:37 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bolo:</font><hr> I am curious why you think gambling is a stressful situation? It is far less stressful then tournament play. In fact it is totally relaxing and fun, you are in command of the situation unlike in a tournament. Do you get stressed when you go out to dinner worrying about the bill, or on vacation about what everything cost? Everything cost money and if you win or lose a few buck pursuing your hobby of pool so what. Be glad your hobby is not boating of flying. I see players freak out over losing $50.00 bucks, the same guys who think nothing of spending hundreds a month just on table time. I don't think it is the money at all they stress out over but their egos if they get beat. <hr /></blockquote>
I think you pretty much answered your own question. Everything in life has some level of stress attached to it. Everybody has things that are more stressful to them than other things, but it doesn't mean that those other things have no stress at all. It is all our own individual perception of the situation, that puts it at a high or low stress level. Every one handles that stress diferently.

BTW, not to avoid your question, No, I never really had a problem with stress when going out for dinner, on vacation or gambling. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I think tournaments and even leagues are much more stressful, to me, than gambling. That doesn't mean I can't handle that stress, it is just there.
But not everyone handles things the same way.

bolo
06-19-2003, 09:03 AM
You should not be playing. The stress in not the money but from your poor judgment. If you make the same kind of irrisponsaple choices in in other parts of your life, it will not be good. I can sit down and have a nice meal and enjoy it and leave a few leftovers. Someone else will eat a half a dozen hamburgers and is 100 lbs overweight. We all make choices in life, some are good and some are bad. I trust myself to make choices that are in my best interest, I can't help what others do. Your example is of a person making bad judgments and are not what I am talking about.

tateuts
06-19-2003, 10:06 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr> Gambling DOES NOT improve your pool game.

The only thing that will improve your pool game is good practice.

Winning at pool, while gambling is a matter of controling a stressful situation. <hr /></blockquote>

Rich,

Gambling in and of itself will not improve anyone's game.

What improves your game is practice and facing stiff competition. Outside of tournaments, most good players won't play for fun and if they do it's meaningless.

Practice alone doesn't prepare you for competing. When you are encountering another human being with something at stake, money, trophy, bragging rights, all three, whatever, your practice game will not hold up if you are not used to competing.


Chris

tateuts
06-19-2003, 10:19 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bolo:</font><hr> I am curious why you think gambling is a stressful situation? It is far less stressful then tournament play. In fact it is totally relaxing and fun, you are in command of the situation unlike in a tournament. I don't think it is the money at all they stress out over but their egos if they get beat. <hr /></blockquote>

I understand what you're saying. Tournaments are a public display and spectacle. If you get on a table and start dogging and losing, or getting bad rolls, or facing a hot opponent, it can be a pretty humbling experience.

However, it's a similar experience in a good match. Two decent players will attract an audience, everyone knows or wants to know the outcome, and people will judge you by who you beat (and the pugnacious ones will add "and for how much").

I try to judge my game on the merits of how I played regardless of the outcome.

Thanks for the input.

Chris

tateuts
06-19-2003, 10:22 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> All depends on how much money you can afford to lose .

Lets say you just got paid . Your wife is waiting for you and you have to go to the bank and settle a bill .
You are in a bar and somehow youve got yourself into a situation with some heavy guys and you break , one goes down and you have to clear to break even ?

Stressful or fun???. It all depends .

Q <hr /></blockquote>

Well, I would stongly advise the gentleman to win big, because if he loses, he won't be able to pay the divorce attorney!

griffith_d
06-19-2003, 10:57 AM
Gambling can improve your game, if it provides enough incentive to want to get better,...if the stakes are low,..probably not.

Practice will improve your game, but playing no one in practice will only go so far,.you will have to play someone in game situations to get better.

Playing in tournaments will improve your game, vs. just gambling,.... not just always beating someone who is worse. Who intentional picks someone better to play and lose money,...no one. But playing better people will improve your game. So gambling does not necessarily improve your game.

There are many aspects of the game that will improve your game,...the best one is confidence.

Griff



<blockquote><font class="small">Quote tateuts:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr> Gambling DOES NOT improve your pool game.

The only thing that will improve your pool game is good practice.

Winning at pool, while gambling is a matter of controling a stressful situation. <hr /></blockquote>

Rich,

Gambling in and of itself will not improve anyone's game.

What improves your game is practice and facing stiff competition. Outside of tournaments, most good players won't play for fun and if they do it's meaningless.

Practice alone doesn't prepare you for competing. When you are encountering another human being with something at stake, money, trophy, bragging rights, all three, whatever, your practice game will not hold up if your are not used to competing.


Chris <hr /></blockquote>

tateuts
06-19-2003, 11:10 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote griffith_d:</font><hr> There are many aspects of the game that will improve your game,...the best one is confidence.

Griff <hr /></blockquote>


That's it in a nutshell. Playing well, preparing well, and competing well, builds real confidence.

Chris

HalSmith
06-19-2003, 02:30 PM
If you have that kind of money troubles you shouldn't be at the poolhall in the first place.---Smitty

cheesemouse
06-19-2003, 05:13 PM
[ QUOTE ]
So you are saying that the act of making a bet, improved your pool game.

Sorry Cheese, but I don't buy that.

Maybe, you were playing a little more and improving. Maybe you simply concentrate a little more when money is on the line. But that act of making a bet, does not make you a better pool player. JMHO.

Rich R. <hr /></blockquote>


Ralph,

When I first started to play pool it cost 10cents a game, there was a rackman..."RACK IN THE BACK" we'd yell out, I was only getting $1.00 a week allowance. Loser paid for the game. Hell, I could lose my weeks allowance in one or two hours...it felt like gambling to me and yes, it did improve my game at a rapid pace.

Then what happened? After a year or so I moved up to play the better players in the room and what did they do? They played pill pool, ring 9-ball and golf. Now this was real gambling to me. I could win a weeks allowance in one game.....make me more focused...that would be my guess...did anybody play for fun??? Not in this poolhall...my biggest fear was that my mommy would findout I was put'm up my allowance gambling. Stupid me, once my game improved to point where I won more often than lost I had pocket money and stopped asking for my allowance....BUSTED!!!!!

Did gambling improve my game....what the hell that's all I did so I guess the answer is "I think so".

Ralph I'm not pushing 'gambling' Things have changed. Now there are leagues and tournaments that new up and coming players can get involved in to improve their games, there are clean upscale family type poolhalls in bigger cities where one can choice to play and not gamble or gamble; take your pick.

Gambling is a matter of degrees. When I was 14 yrs old the price of the game was gambling to me, now, of course it has to be folding stuff....

I now have a home table that I spend serious multiple hours playing, practicing and what is in the back of my mind???.....improving my game so when I match up I will........................I think you get the picture..... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Ralph S.
06-19-2003, 05:26 PM
Hey Cheese, thanks for the reply, but until my response to yours, I hadnt posted in this thread. I think you have me confused with someone else. The story was great though. Thanks Cheese!

cheesemouse
06-19-2003, 05:37 PM
Sorry Ralph,,,,,I LOVE YOU MAN.......hehehehe /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Ralph S.
06-19-2003, 05:53 PM
LOL no problem Cheese. Like I said, it was a good story and I did enjoy it. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

bolo
06-19-2003, 07:26 PM
It is just I can't say lets play some more. You lose in a tournament and that is it. In a gambling match you play as long as the other pkayer will keep playing, raise the bet, play somemore tomorrow, you know what I mean. I have to admit, more then once in a tournament after losing I have been tempted to say to a guy, Want to play some for real now? You can't do that without looking like a jerk.

tateuts
06-19-2003, 07:56 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bolo:</font><hr> It is just I can't say lets play some more. You lose in a tournament and that is it. In a gambling match you play as long as the other pkayer will keep playing, raise the bet, play somemore tomorrow, you know what I mean. I have to admit, more then once in a tournament after losing I have been tempted to say to a guy, Want to play some for real now? You can't do that without looking like a jerk. <hr /></blockquote>

I know what you mean. Once you lose, you're out of there. That's the pressure. Every game is important, every shot is important. All you can do is try your hardest and hope it's enough.

In the above situation, where you get beat by someone you think you should beat, if you stick with the tournaments it's sweet to get them again. You will be motivated next time, I guarantee it!

Last night I was playing a top player. It was 7 - 7 in a race to 9. This guy doesn't miss - he's a semi pro out here. He misses the 7 and slops it in anyway, ran out , then broke and ran out the next rack. Well, two months ago we had a similar situation 6 -6 in a race to 8 and he slopped in the 9 ball 4 rails to put me in the losers bracket in a bigger tourney! I'm not saying he wouldn't have won anyway, I think he is better than me, but what can you do?

Chris

Rod
06-19-2003, 11:50 PM
Cheese,
About the same story here, 10 cent racks etc. My first months were fun play but after that it was always a gamble. I'd play the old men take a buck or two from them. Then I'd play some intermediate players and most times lose it all. That didn't last long though I got to their speed or better. I'd take that money and play the big boys. I mean your not going to play unless you gamble. Well I lost most times until I finally jumped a couple of gears. I'd win more than lose. It was like life or death, I had to win. I left that town, and so it goes for a couple or so more years, then I had a good shot with most players. After that I didn't book many losers. I made a lot of money, well ahead of the game. I still am. When I play I play to win money. It's not funzies cause I fart around to much playing for fun. I do like to fool around and have fun at times but to me it's really about the money. Or at the very least winning. I hate to lose so I try to be prepared. I may not play at full speed, but then sometimes I don't need to. I may feel like I made a bad game at times but it's usually me just not playing up to speed. Anyway does gambling improve your game, well for me it does.

For those that say money does not help, they either gamble little or not at all. They play for fun, leagues etc. All that is fine, no problem here to each their own. I however think that most of these people don't mind spending the money on what they love to do. No problem there either as far as I'm concerned. It's just the difference is I want some one to pay me or for my time, even if thats all it is. I don't make tons of money so I fight a little harder to keep my recreational expenses low. For those that don't mind spending a fair amount of money to have fun, well if they can afford it good for them. OK I'm done rambling.

Rod

The Watchdog
06-20-2003, 01:28 AM
If pool is similar to other top individual sports, then it would be impossible to give one's best game until all aspects of the game are to the highest level.

In different sports, each component is worked on in practice, and then in tournament play the practitioner attempts to put his best efforts of each of these components into a "game". Pool,i believe, is ranked second only to chess in difficulty. That would seem to indicate more components.

Hence, it would make sense then, that until the components are all at their best, the best "game" possible would not be produced. Which means practice...but practice in itself does not lend to a "game". So one must decide whether to gamble, and produce a "game" that is subpar, or practice, until the game is up to par.

It seems logical that one could not produce his/her best game, until the components are all practiced to their peak. Hence, any gambling before this point would slow down learning, and maybe inhibit confidence unnecessarily.

Rich R.
06-20-2003, 05:36 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote tateuts:</font><hr> Practice alone doesn't prepare you for competing. When you are encountering another human being with something at stake, money, trophy, bragging rights, all three, whatever, your practice game will not hold up if you are not used to competing. <hr /></blockquote>
Practice and playing help improve your game. Playing other people, whether in tournaments, leagues or gambling head to head, helps you to learn to handle the stress involved with the competition. All I am saying, is that these are two seperate issues.

Rich R.
06-20-2003, 08:16 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cheesemouse:</font><hr> Did gambling improve my game....what the hell that's all I did so I guess the answer is "I think so".<hr /></blockquote>
So I guess all of that playing had nothing to do with your improvement. It was only the fact that you were placing bets on the games. I also guess if you stayed home and called in the bets, you would have also improved. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

A lot of people go to race tracks and bet on horses, but it doesn't make them better riders. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

The act of gambling, makes you a better gambler.
The act of playing, makes you a better player.

cuechick
06-20-2003, 08:35 AM
I understand your point Rich; but I too have to disagree. I avoided gambling while I watched many of my friends dive in and yes, improve.
In the last month I began gambling with the locals and here is why I think it is improving my game.
1) I am getting to play with better players.
2) It is much more like a real match, I am playing far more strategically and taking less chances ie: smarter.
3) I am far more focused and work constantly on improving my overall concentration.
4) Also my opponant is more focused as well and bringing more to the table.
5) I pay more attention to my mechanics and preshot routine.

I look at gambling as an intense practice, and I get far more from it than just a regular practice game with a friend or even a good player. To me it is like taking a "Spinning Class" rather than just riding an exercise bike. I might spend the same amount of time; but I am burning twice as much!

I hoped to improve my tournament game but have been happy and surprized to also see gains in my tecnical game, saftey play and overall confidence.

Rich R.
06-20-2003, 09:19 AM
Cuechick, you said that the gambling made you pay more attention, made you more focused and made you play smarter.

You did not say that it made you more skillful at playing the game of pool.

I don't disagree, that gambling, will make you do all of the things you mentioned. My only point is that it will not make you more skillful at playing the game.

In your case, and in the case of many others, the gambling, or the fear of losing some cash, makes you pay attention, be more focused and play smarter. Therefore, you are playing at your top skill level. But the gambling alone, does not improve that skill level. The act of playing and practicing improves the skill level.

tateuts
06-20-2003, 09:34 AM
Rod,

You're the type of player I try to match up with. It helps a lot if it's someone who will battle to win the money. I can't lose that way, because if they beat me, I'll get a hopefully good work out, or at least I'll know how I stand in relation to that level of player. If they get behind, they'll try to play their way out of the hole (hopefully) and I get an even better work out. If someone gets angry or pulls the cry-baby routine, that's the last time we play.

I like winning and competition but candidly I don't like taking money for it. But I won't let up on someone because of that.

Chris

bolo
06-20-2003, 10:13 AM
The one thing I will say that would move me to your side would be. When someone goes from just looking for a good challenging match to wanting to win money it stops being of any value to the player. In fact it will have the opposite effect, turning them into a nit. Winning becomes more important then playing a good match. They just want an easy one sided game and that will not help their pool game at all. In the long run, many money player begin to fall into this catagory. I always laugh when I hear a guy say, "No one in here wants to gamble, what a bunch of nits". Truth be known, he is the one that does not want to gamble, if he wants to make a dead fair game and be willing to take the same risk he is asking others to take, he will get plenty of action, but he never will. A lot of so called money player are phonies. You will see more heart from a couple of average players battling it out in the pool room, then you will ever see from most of the world beaters looking for a lock. Same with local tournaments, most of the players have no chance of winning yet they play every week and try their best. At the same time the guys that win all the time, are complaining because they don't like their handicap. They don't want to have a nice tough match they can feel good about winning, they just want to win.

cuechick
06-20-2003, 10:15 AM
Yes, I believe; concentration, good stradegy and saftey play are all SKILLS, that are esstential to a good pool game.
So I'm not sure how I can be more clear....IMO, all of the 5 reasons I stated in my previous post DO result in an overall improvement in SKILL level. How can it not? Yes, "the act of playing and practice" improves your skill level; but what is gambling if not "playing and practicing" with an added incentive?
Did you miss the whole section about the comparison of an intense workout?

Look, you may have your beliefs and that is fine...but please read my post again, I think I made my point, I just don't get yours...?

Rich R.
06-20-2003, 10:31 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cuechick:</font><hr> I'm not sure how I can be more clear....IMO, all of the 5 reasons I stated in my previous post DO result in an overall improvement in SKILL level. How can it not? Yes, "the act of playing and practice" improves your skill level; but what is gambling if not "playing and practicing" with an added incentive?
Did you miss the whole section about the comparison of an intense workout?
Look, you may have your beliefs and that is fine...but please read my post again, I think I made my point, I just don't get yours...?

<hr /></blockquote>
Cuechick, I have read your post, several times. From your post I get that gambling gives you the incentive and the focus to play up to your full potential. I accept that totally. I can also see how it, in a way, is an intense workout. But it is not the gambling that is making you a better player, it is the learning, practicing and playing, that make you the better player. The bet is only the catalyst. JMHO.

The only point I am trying to make, is that the gambling does not make you a better player. I am not saying anything else.
Gambling may make you play better, because you are more foucused, try to play smarter, are more careful and have more incentive to win. I agree with all of that.
Gambling does not improve your playing ability.

We may have to agree to disagree. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Sid_Vicious
06-20-2003, 10:33 AM
I believe you've encapsulated the overall benefits I feel I get from gambling to a tee Cuechick. Be it an overdrive gear or a granny gear....one or the other kicks in with cash on the line, plus as you said, the major hitters lets you play against them, and there's something to be had for that opportunity which is ordinarily not available to most of us peons...sid

griffith_d
06-20-2003, 10:42 AM
So I'm not sure how I can be more clear....IMO, all of the 5 reasons I stated in my previous post DO result in an overall improvement in SKILL level. How can it not?

Gambling cannot improve your skill level as Rich R. says,...it makes you more aware of your surroundings,....i.e. Running for your life if a bear is after you.

Running faster is only done because of incentive(the bear), the bear does not make you a better runner.

I think Rich R. is trying to say that gambling can maybe temporarily improve your game winning streak, but once you do not play for money you have the same ole' skills,...does that make sense?

Griff

dardusm
06-20-2003, 11:01 AM
I'll throw in my 2 cents worth. I have watched several players take big leaps in their games due to gambling. If they weren't gambling then I don't think they would have put in the time playing in order to improve. The stakes motivate the players to focus for long periods of time. It is very tough practicing for hours without a wager. When I was younger I gambled all the time, but now it is just too much trouble. There are plenty of tournaments to cut your teeth and it is less hassle than wolfing a game then listening to players complain. /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

highsea
06-20-2003, 11:26 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote griffith_d:</font><hr> ..., the bear does not make you a better runner.
Griff <hr /></blockquote>
Griff,
Ever been chased by a bear? I grew up in Alaska, and believe me, it makes you a way better runner... /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

-CM

griffith_d
06-20-2003, 11:29 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote highsea:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote griffith_d:</font><hr> ..., the bear does not make you a better runner.
Griff <hr /></blockquote>
Griff,
Ever been chased by a bear? I grew up in Alaska, and believe me, it makes you a way better runner... /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

-CM <hr /></blockquote>

That's pretty good,...no I have not been chased by a bear, but I grew up in Louisiana and have been come after by an alligator and plenty of snakes,...even attacked by a squirrel one time,....he started biting on the arm all the way up to my neck in about 1 second. Those little suckers are fast.

Griff

highsea
06-20-2003, 11:33 AM
LOL. That put the fear of squirrels in me! From now on I'll steer clear of those vicious little bas**rds. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

-CM

06-20-2003, 11:41 AM
I grew up with a pool table in our basement and my Dad and brothers taught me how to play pretty good. I am in my early 20's and single and haved joined the APA league where I live and am now ranked as a 5 which is good for a lady.
I see a lot of guys in my room gambling for 5-10-20 a game and I know I can beat a lot of them. You are saying that if people gamble on their games, have something riding on the outcome it will make them a better player. I want to be a better player, I could use the extra money i could win.
When I beat the guys in the leagues, most of them dont like it or take the defeat very bad. I'd like to meet some nice guys and date them, but I dont want to scare them all off because I can out play them. Can I come up to you in a pool hall and ask you if you want to play me for $20 a rack 9 ball. Before I make a total fool of my self, guys tell me what are the rules on this, or are there any. Can I gamble with you, or is this somethiong that a lady does not do. Help. Sarah Lee in Texas

griffith_d
06-20-2003, 11:43 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote highsea:</font><hr> LOL. That put the fear of squirrels in me! From now on I'll steer clear of those vicious little bas**rds. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

-CM <hr /></blockquote>

That's funny,,...it did actually happen, but it is nothing compared to a bear chasing you.

The only thing other than gators here are the small black bears, panthers, wild boars and maybe a buck chasing a doe and you get in the way.

Griff

griffith_d
06-20-2003, 11:47 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote sarah lee:</font><hr> I grew up with a pool table in our basement and my Dad and brothers taught me how to play pretty good. I am in my early 20's and single and haved joined the APA league where I live and am now ranked as a 5 which is good for a lady.
I see a lot of guys in my room gambling for 5-10-20 a game and I know I can beat a lot of them. You are saying that if people gamble on their games, have something riding on the outcome it will make them a better player. I want to be a better player, I could use the extra money i could win.
When I beat the guys in the leagues, most of them dont like it or take the defeat very bad. I'd like to meet some nice guys and date them, but I dont want to scare them all off because I can out play them. Can I come up to you in a pool hall and ask you if you want to play me for $20 a rack 9 ball. Before I make a total fool of my self, guys tell me what are the rules on this, or are there any. Can I gamble with you, or is this somethiong that a lady does not do. Help. Sarah Lee in Texas <hr /></blockquote>

Where in Texas?

Griff

06-20-2003, 11:51 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote griffith_d:</font><hr>
Where in Texas?

Griff <hr /></blockquote>Larryville?

(Sorry, inside joke...) /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

griffith_d
06-20-2003, 11:53 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dmorris68:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote griffith_d:</font><hr>
Where in Texas?

Griff <hr /></blockquote>Larryville?

(Sorry, inside joke...) /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Try and make it an outside joke and fill me in.

Griff

highsea
06-20-2003, 11:58 AM
Hell, yes Sarah! Put your money on the table. I've both won and lost money to ladies at the table, and it didn't bother me a bit. If you win, you win, you earned it.

Actually, I think you might get a better game from some guys if there's some money involved. Not trying to be sexist, but you have probably had guys let up on you before because you were "a girl". They won't do that if it's going to cost them 20 bucks!

If you are comfortable in the surroundings, know the locals, are with friends, etc, I don't see a problem.

I know things are a little different in Texas then Seattle, so I can't say whether it would be considered "ladylike" or not, but why should you be excluded from a money game if you want to play?

As to meeting a "nice guy", if he is scared away because you shoot better, well...keep looking. A lot of guys would love to have a girlfriend that likes to play pool and can play even or better with them.

JMO
-CM

06-20-2003, 12:08 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote griffith_d:</font><hr>
Try and make it an outside joke and fill me in.

Griff <hr /></blockquote>Griff, check your PM's... /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

UWPoolGod
06-20-2003, 12:10 PM
LOL. That put the fear of squirrels in me! From now on I'll steer clear of those vicious little bas**rds. &lt;&lt;highsea

Ever been on UW's campus? It is infested with the largest squirrels you have ever seen. I think UW is genetically enhancing them. If they had opposable thumbs they would take over the world.

Todd &lt;-- always keeps an eye on the closest one

highsea
06-20-2003, 12:21 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote UWPoolGod:</font><hr> LOL. That put the fear of squirrels in me! From now on I'll steer clear of those vicious little bas**rds. &lt;&lt;highsea

Ever been on UW's campus? It is infested with the largest squirrels you have ever seen. I think UW is genetically enhancing them. If they had opposable thumbs they would take over the world.

Todd &lt;-- always keeps an eye on the closest one <hr /></blockquote>

I've seen'em, Todd. My niece is just finishing her first year.

If the squirrels there could talk, they would be saying, "Hey!, A**hole, Gimme a f***ing peanut, NOW!" /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
-CM

griffith_d
06-20-2003, 12:28 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote highsea:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote UWPoolGod:</font><hr> LOL. That put the fear of squirrels in me! From now on I'll steer clear of those vicious little bas**rds. &lt;&lt;highsea

Ever been on UW's campus? It is infested with the largest squirrels you have ever seen. I think UW is genetically enhancing them. If they had opposable thumbs they would take over the world.

Todd &lt;-- always keeps an eye on the closest one <hr /></blockquote>

I've seen'em, Todd. My niece is just finishing her first year.

If the squirrels there could talk, they would be saying, "Hey!, A**hole, Gimme a f***ing peanut, NOW!" /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
-CM <hr /></blockquote>

Are these the same squirrels in the public park with all of the geese that attack people. I think I have seen them.

Griff

tateuts
06-20-2003, 12:45 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote sarah lee:</font><hr> Can I come up to you in a pool hall and ask you if you want to play me for $20 a rack 9 ball. Before I make a total fool of my self, guys tell me what are the rules on this, or are there any. Can I gamble with you, or is this somethiong that a lady does not do. Help. Sarah Lee in Texas <hr /></blockquote>

Hi Sarah Lee!

Out here in Los Angeles there is not as much differentiation in the sexes as far as gambling. We also have some female pro's who are quite good. I might
beat a guy and he'll say - "you're too good for me, will you play my wife?".

The women usually don't ask men to gamble, and men aren't accustomed to asking women to gamble, so you will have to be the one to ask. It will get known after awhile that you are up for "action".

My suggestion is you learn a few lines. Something like "would you like to play some friendly 9 ball...cheap".

By the way, just because you see people at lower skill levels playing each other for money, it doesn't mean they will play you for money.

I would suggest starting off at lower bets and lower speed players (who still have a chance against you) to "groom" yourself for the competition, then step up as you get comfortable with it.


Chris

tateuts
06-20-2003, 01:05 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bolo:</font><hr> I always laugh when I hear a guy say, "No one in here wants to gamble, what a bunch of nits". Truth be known, he is the one that does not want to gamble, <hr /></blockquote>

It's because the hustlers who need the money, and are only playing for the money, and are playing for their own money, will cut their losses if they are playing someone good. I'm always astounded to have a good match going - a real battle - and have a good (hustler type) player quit me behind. Even if they have a 60/40 chance of winning, they don't like the odds!

Chris

cheesemouse
06-20-2003, 01:10 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Rich R,
So I guess all of that playing had nothing to do with your improvement. It was only the fact that you were placing bets on the games. I also guess if you stayed home and called in the bets, you would have also improved.

A lot of people go to race tracks and bet on horses, but it doesn't make them better riders.

The act of gambling, makes you a better gambler.
The act of playing, makes you a better player.<hr /></blockquote>

If the key to playing your best game is letting 'it' happen what better way to change the files in your pool playing Central Processing Unit(brain)then too come with the shot for the cash...you thought of it, you decided to shot it, you were under the cash pressure(gambling, not doing drills)and you made the shot. Your CPU is screaming back at you "that's the way you do it, let's replace all those other shots with this one...Yaaaaaah babbbbbby!!!!" Now that's a good pool lesson, one not easily forgotten; it has become a perminate file.....:) Like it not the guy/gal that comes with the win in a gambling session, no matter what the amount, get that warm fuzzy feeling. I like warm and fuzzy and I don't get it in funzzy pool. That is not to say I don't enjoy just playing with my friends, I love that but I love the social part. I simply cannot 'get down' for fun.
Geez, you got me rambling now...are you happy, Rich???
When I've got it going on in tournament matches or gambling I hit shots I'm not suppose to hit but I can't stop myself because I've let my perfect pool body go....it is like an out of body experience....I never get that happening during intense partice session. I think your trying to sell your opinion based on a technical definition of the word 'gambling'. Your 'act of' statement is technically correct if you were trying to pass the SAT's in english comprehension but we are all pool players and we have special meanings for all kinds of words and gambling in pool is more in the fashion of a sword fight to the death than the simple placing of a bet over the phone to the horse track or to your bookie...
It has been decided in court; Two pool players wagering on they're game is not gambling on a game of chance but rather wagering on a game of skill. If you nit out on a pool debt the courts can make you pay it......Hehehehehheee /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

<font color="red"> "IT'S NOT WHAT YOU MEAN, IT'S WHAT GOES ON INBETWEEN"

06-20-2003, 01:39 PM
Thanks guys for the good advice, you are telling me to start at the bottom of the totum pole, play for beer money and move up slowly, i'll try that.
My second problem is what do I do when I beat a guy and he gets angry or embarrased about it. Is there a way to avoid this, or how do I assure him after the fact that is not personal, its just business. They have such fragile egos. The men are a little bit more macho about this in Texas than they are in LA, so my problem may be bigger than yours is Chris. You are probably playing in some yuppie million dollar sunset strip club, I am playing guys in honky tonks.
There seems to be an old fashioned double standard still in fashion where I play. I like playing in bars more than pool halls, it is easier to meet guys.
Sarah Lee

Deeman
06-20-2003, 02:06 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote sarah lee:</font><hr>
My second problem is what do I do when I beat a guy and he gets angry or embarrased about it. Is there a way to avoid this, or how do I assure him after the fact that is not personal, its just business. They have such fragile egos. The men are a little bit more macho about this in Texas than they are in LA, so my problem may be bigger than yours is Chris. You are probably playing in some yuppie million dollar sunset strip club, I am playing guys in honky tonks.
There seems to be an old fashioned double standard still in fashion where I play. I like playing in bars more than pool halls, it is easier to meet guys.
Sarah Lee
<hr /></blockquote>

Sarah,

If you play in the same Cow Palace every time, it will help. People get to know you and seeing you are a serious player should make even the cowboy crowd a little more reasonable.

Don't forget the calming effect of a nice smile from a girl and make sure you know a few guys in the place before you just start challenging the bar. I know it's tougher as all those Texas boys are rough, tough and hard to diaper! Just let them know you will pay when you lose and expect to be paid when you win. Ask around about any Neanderthal types and avoid them.

Oh! and I have always found it helps to carry a Colt .45 automatic with a laser sight in an ankle holster... I hope that helps....

Dee

Sid_Vicious
06-20-2003, 02:06 PM
Bars huh. I imagine that you play by bar rules as well, no ball in hand fouls or intentional safeties. Tell you what you do, come to Dallas, any one of the Click's houses, match up with about any guy and if he gets his panties in a wad over you beating him, I imagine his buddies will gladly accept you into the circle while chuckling at their buddy for whining.

You play in bars and win cash, you're likely to have unfriendlies, no matter if you're a man or woman...sid

Kato
06-20-2003, 02:34 PM
Sarah Lee, if it's all about ego with these guys it's no good for you. You say you date them from time to time maybe it's better just to play leagues or tournaments rather than burn bridges? I've got no problem playing with women and have never had my feelings hurt after losing to one.

Kato

UWPoolGod
06-20-2003, 02:42 PM
what do I do when I beat a guy and he gets angry or embarrased about it. Is there a way to avoid this, or how do I assure him after the fact that is not personal, its just business. &lt;---sarah


I just laugh at the guy and snatch the money from his hand. Just Kidding. No I am usually very unagressive when he passes the money. It could lead to a fight if you are laughing at the guy. Some guys just throw the money on the table and want to go again or undo their cue, then you really don't have to worry how to let them down easy...cuase they made it pretty clear they don't want let down nice.

tateuts
06-20-2003, 02:52 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote sarah lee:</font><hr>
My second problem is what do I do when I beat a guy and he gets angry or embarrased about it. Is there a way to avoid this, or how do I assure him after the fact that is not personal, its just business. They have such fragile egos. The men are a little bit more macho about this in Texas than they are in LA, so my problem may be bigger than yours is Chris. You are probably playing in some yuppie million dollar sunset strip club, I am playing guys in honky tonks.
There seems to be an old fashioned double standard still in fashion where I play. I like playing in bars more than pool halls, it is easier to meet guys.
Sarah Lee
<hr /></blockquote>

I've never even been in a yuppie, million dollar club! I play in poolhalls on 9' tables.

What I think you need to do is take advantage of the fact that you are a girl. The guys may get embarassed about losing, but they shouldn't get mad. Take their money and smile at them nicely and say "try again?".

If you get into shooting for money in bars regularly, you need to be aware that you will become a mark for hustlers as soon as they hear about you. Bar action is lucrative for hustlers. They are similar to "A" players but really wierd.

Buddy up with the bartender, the bouncer, and any particularly intimidating linemen types who hang around. You won't have too many problems.

Chris

Rich R.
06-20-2003, 03:54 PM
Cheese, I am not tryint to sell you anything. REALLY! Unless you are interested in a nice bridge. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I do not dispute the rush you get when you make a hard shot when you are playing for the cash.
My question is, did making the bet, suddenly give you the skill needed to make the hard shot? I don't think so. The bet may have made you take your time and concentrate on all the skills needed to make that shot, but the bet did not give you the skill.

bolo
06-20-2003, 03:56 PM
My guess is the speed you play, once you let it be known you will gamble, you will be busted out pretty quick. I would have no problem taking your money and neither would a lot of other guys. You would make it on to every players sucker list. If someone asks you to play, be assured you can't win.

06-20-2003, 04:00 PM
Sarah,

So you play 9 ball in honky-tonks? Are we talking a place with a single challenge table? Guess you'll have to go with whatever is the culture in that particular place, and make sure to become something of a regular before you bet much.

During my dive-barbox betting days, the game of choice was last-pocket 8 ball. Is it played much in Texas? I'd much rather put money on that than straight 8 or a single rack of 9 ball. And in certain bars, it was understood that you didn't put up your quarters if you weren't willing to bet $5 or $10.

Good luck ... don't see that you should have any great problem if you can get accepted as one of the guys, so to speak.

Fran Crimi
06-20-2003, 05:19 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote The Watchdog:</font><hr>
Pool,i believe, is ranked second only to chess in difficulty.
<hr /></blockquote>

Watchdog, where did you find that statistic? I think that's interesting and would like to look it up.

Fran

Fran Crimi
06-20-2003, 05:56 PM
I think that's a great post, Chris. I really like the way you go through the stages a player who's maybe a little nervous might experience. You know, there's a saying that it's better to be a little nervous than not at all because when you feel that edge, you really pay attention. But being shakey-nervous will definitely put you in the "at-risk" zone. Like you said, it's all in the recovery.

Fran

cuechick
06-20-2003, 07:13 PM
I think you have to decide which is your priority, do you want a boyfriend? or do you want to play for money? I'd suggest you pick you opponants carefully, watch them play others, if they are volitile when they loose, maybe better to avoid them. Play with serious players you respect and they will respect you. I am in a small southern town and one of the very few serious female players and I have never had a problem with any of the men I have gambled with. But I have avoided a few, who I think might be trouble. Believe me, if your a good female player, you have not gone unnoticed. You have already been sized up by any serious gamblers in the room.
If you are attracted to someone, I suggest you keep it social, do not gamble, except maybe for dinner...
Pool is a good way to meet guys, gambling is not.

tateuts
06-20-2003, 07:26 PM
Fran,

Thank you for the nice comment. I mainly posted it because a few players mentioned that they were "nervous" playing opponents and gambling, and I wanted to let them know that even experienced players feel the same way.

I believe that having a game plan will make a player more comfortable in a gambling match, to be able to perform their best, and to demonstrate that they can be selective in deciding who their opponent might be.



Chris

06-21-2003, 12:46 AM
They stole that from a fast larry post on az, everyone steals all of the guys work.
The Ice Mon

06-21-2003, 12:52 AM
Fast was doing a post saying pool was harder to play at the top than golf and the opinions on that were split about 50/50, it was a cool discussion. What is Golf?
The Ice Mon

tateuts
06-21-2003, 06:30 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote gna:</font><hr> They stole that from a fast larry post on az, everyone steals all of the guys work.
The Ice Mon <hr /></blockquote>

Yes, we could tell by the quality of the writing, content, original humor, punctuation, syntax, sentence structure, spelling, and overall presentation that it was originally a Fast Larry post that Chris copied.

I am, however, honored that you liked my post enough to accuse me of copying it from you.

Chris

John in NH
06-21-2003, 08:54 PM
Hi Sarah Lee,

If you came up to me in a pool room and asked me to play for $20.00 a game chances are you would lose at least $20.00, maybe more, the best approach would be to play me for $2.00 a game or a drink or the time on the table and see where it would lead to from there, always start out low and work your way up.

Good Luck,

John

06-22-2003, 01:30 AM
Dear vicious, damn son, that name scares me, you all some bad ass or sometin. Son, what in the hell did you just say, it did not make a lick of sense, or is this somenew kiddy code we old timers are not suppoesed to understand. I dont know what youall are smokin down there, but fedx up a p0ound asap, it has to be good stuff and old alligator annie would like sum.
Theice mon /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

The Watchdog
07-25-2003, 05:35 PM
Hi Fran. The stat of pool being second to chess in difficulty has been in my head for years. I have no idea of an actual source at this point. If memory serves, the stat was based partly on the number of possibilities presented within the game.

bluewolf
07-25-2003, 09:42 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bolo:</font><hr> My guess is the speed you play, once you let it be known you will gamble, you will be busted out pretty quick. I would have no problem taking your money and neither would a lot of other guys. You would make it on to every players sucker list. If someone asks you to play, be assured you can't win. <hr /></blockquote>

In the old bar box days, we non serios gamblers gambled for a beer and the loser paid for the next rack. To me, it adds a little pump to the game.

Laura

nhp
07-26-2003, 04:38 AM
Hey Chris, do you play at Billiard Connection in Northridge?

BillPorter
07-26-2003, 07:43 AM
My compliments on an excellent post that has started a great thread! I just re-read a lot of the posts and wanted to add my $.02.

It seems to me that the question of whether gambling can increase your skill at pool is a bit complicated. Maybe there are somewhat different SKILLS involved in these five different ways to play pool: 1) practicing by yourself, 2) playing for fun with friends, 3) playing tournament pool, 4) playing for low stakes, and 5) playing for high stakes. I have known and heard of players who excelled at #1 (solo practice). There was a guy some years back in New York City (I think George Fels wrote about him in one of his columns) who came in the pool hall every night and practiced straight pool. More often than not he completed a 100 ball run and was known to run 200 on many occasions. But he was not a money player or a tournament player. Some have been great tournament players, but not necessarily great money players. As I recall, Mike Eufemia (reported to have had a 625 ball run in straight pool) was a tournament player but couldn't play at all for the cash. Everyone who has been around pool much knows of players who play great for SMALL stakes but fold when playing for HIGH stakes. (I recall a player in the Dallas area in the 1960's who was known as Waco Pete. For $2.00 a game he might have beaten Mosconi, but for $20.00 a game he couldn't hit the end rail.)

To summarize (before you fall to sleep reading this long post), maybe it would be fair to say that the SET of skills needed to play well for money is somewhat different that the SET of skills needed to play well on the practice table or in tournaments. On the practice table, it's mostly physical skills and shot selection being tested. When playing in tournaments or for cash, you have to develop the ability to execute your pool shots under a higher level of tension, and that's another skill.

I think gambling on pool definitely increases your skill at gambling on pool! Maybe it doesn't increase your ability to execute a certain shot, but it clearly increases your ability to execute that shot under pressure. On the other hand, playing for money may actually reduce your skill level if you focus entirely on winning money and end up playing kids and drunks just to pick up a few dollars here and there.

I have the most respect for those players who can execute at a high level under the pressure of tournaments AND matches for cash. Of course, if you're getting staked, then that's a stakehorse of a different color...

tateuts
07-26-2003, 11:16 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote nhp:</font><hr> Hey Chris, do you play at Billiard Connection in Northridge? <hr /></blockquote>

Yep, that's me. Who's this?

Chris

tateuts
07-26-2003, 11:37 PM
Hi Bill,

Thanks - I liked this thread too. It sure was interesting to see the different viewpoints.

I think the improvment part comes in with the conditioning and the desire. To improve as pool players, we must continually push ourselves to practice and compete. It's easy to get discouraged and complacent. Sometimes a good butt-kicking is the motivation we need to practice. Sometimes, when we kick-butt, it's the perfect reward for all that effort.

If someone is really nervous about the stakes, they do have a problem. They are playing for too much. What I like to be nervous about is a hill-hill cliffhanger, or a sensational comeback win.

Frankly, I would rather play in serious tournaments, but they are just not as available as my "sparring partners" are.

Chris

Hopster
07-27-2003, 12:49 AM
(I recall a player in the Dallas area in the 1960's who was known as Waco Pete. For $2.00 a game he might have beaten Mosconi, but for $20.00 a game he couldn't hit the end rail.) &lt;--Bill Porter

Not to over simplify what everyone has been saying but it all comes down to who chokes and who doesnt. Its the same in all competitive things, sure a guy can make a three rail bank for fun, but if theres $200 or the rent on the line, watch out. All of a sudden the palms get sweaty and the second guessing starts.
Some people can handle pressure just fine and even thrive on it, others go right in the crapper.
I see it all the time in the environment im in now.

Alfie
07-27-2003, 07:48 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Hopster:</font><hr>I see it all the time in the environment im in now.<hr /></blockquote>Which is ...?

BillPorter
07-27-2003, 09:19 AM
I have to agree that the player who chokes the most is probably going to lose. Seems to me that the topic of choking has had a few threads in the past and probably is about due for another one.

Hopster
07-27-2003, 11:23 AM
Quote Hopster:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I see it all the time in the environment im in now.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Which is ...? &lt;--Alfie

Casino

nhp
07-30-2003, 06:51 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote tateuts:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote nhp:</font><hr> Hey Chris, do you play at Billiard Connection in Northridge? <hr /></blockquote>

Yep, that's me. Who's this?

Chris <hr /></blockquote>

Hey Chris, this is Nate from BC. What a small world the pool world is I guess! The Pechauer Tour tournament was alot of fun, too bad you missed it. I drew Santos Sambajon in the first round, and lost to him 9-7. This guy breaks and runs two on me, then breaks, hooks me, and runs out to 5-0. At that time I was thinking I didn't have a chance. The next game, he breaks, drops nothing, and I run out. I break, safe him, he safes me back, and I kick the ball in and run out. After those two games he started playing kind of bad for the next few racks, and left me some easy run outs and combinations. For some reason, I was kicking like Bruce Lee that match! The last few games he caught stroke again, and I had one more chance to shoot, ran to the 7-ball, and jarred it in the pocket. He finished that game then broke and ran the last for the win. The most incredible game to watch was Rafael Martinez vs anyone. He went undefeated, and played absoloutley amazing! This guy was masse'ing balls in, and playing perfect shape with that too, and running racks! I wish I had brought my camcorder to record the final match, he did some crazy supernatural stuff. Well, hope to see you later today for the tournament.

Nate

tateuts
07-30-2003, 10:39 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote nhp:</font><hr> Chris <hr /></blockquote>

Hey Chris, this is Nate from BC. What a small world the pool world is I guess! The Pechauer Tour tournament was alot of fun, too bad you missed it. I drew Santos Sambajon in the first round, and lost to him 9-7. This guy breaks and runs two on me, then breaks, hooks me, and runs out to 5-0. At that time I was thinking I didn't have a chance. The next game, he breaks, drops nothing, and I run out. I break, safe him, he safes me back, and I kick the ball in and run out. After those two games he started playing kind of bad for the next few racks, and left me some easy run outs and combinations. For some reason, I was kicking like Bruce Lee that match! The last few games he caught stroke again, and I had one more chance to shoot, ran to the 7-ball, and jarred it in the pocket. He finished that game then broke and ran the last for the win. The most incredible game to watch was Rafael Martinez vs anyone. He went undefeated, and played absoloutley amazing! This guy was masse'ing balls in, and playing perfect shape with that too, and running racks! I wish I had brought my camcorder to record the final match, he did some crazy supernatural stuff. Well, hope to see you later today for the tournament.

Nate <hr /></blockquote>

Nate, my man - how are you? /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

What a draw! To come back from 0 - 5 against Santos is a feat! Oh well, I guess there aren't too many easy draws at these tournaments. Sounds like you held your own. It's amazing what kicking in a ball in from downtown will do to your opponent sometimes - especially on those tight tables.

I guess Rafael Martinez and David Palmer have been winning most of the Pechauer events.

See you tonight!

Chris