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Qtec
06-23-2003, 08:22 AM
When an addict serves more time than a rapist then there is somethig seriously wrong .

Quote:
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To show you do not take the time to look at the important things (like the date) just what you want to see.

eg8r

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Whats important?

Well I didnt miss this.

Fact - California spends more on prisons[ CJS] than it does on education . Prisons are big buiseness in America . Wonder why that is ? If every person has an equal chance in America , why is it that 1 in 4 Afro-Americans are at any given moment involved with the Criminal Justice System . In NY , 75% of offenders were from the same 6 districts. The jails are filling up with people doing 20 years for possession of narcotics .
3 strikes and you,re out is the most barbaric and unjust system in the civilised world .
Only in America !
Q

Sid_Vicious
06-23-2003, 09:23 AM
I totally agree. Space is continuously being made in the prisons by releasing violent criminals frequently after a mere 3-5 years, and yet simple, passive crimes like possession has people still in jail for decades of time. THAT IS PURELY A SCREWED UP SYSTEM! Seriously, baby rapers frequently get far less time than the guy who gets busted for possession, that's a fact, a very sad fact...sid

Cueless Joey
06-23-2003, 10:11 AM
The 3-strikes law was lobbied heavily by the NRA for years.
It finally passed in California after the murder of Polly Klaas. The politicians rode the political correctness of the 3-strikes law to get votes. The trial lawyers of America opposed this law for years because of the buisiness they would lose from repeat offenders from being locked for a long time.
The law is being reviewed in California. They are trying to redefine 3-strikes. They are reviewing if only violent third strike should count as third strike.
Frankly, the 3-strike law finally passed because too many criminals got off too easily. Most prison sentences are only served 50-60% of the total length. What Califonia needs is the truth in sentencing law. Make any sentence be served at least 80% of it's length.
Drugs is the cause of most of the violent crimes in this country. Locking dealers early prevents more violent crimes that eventually are commited by these people. I don't really have sympathy for them.
Q, 3-strikes law is nowhere the most barbaric law in the world. In some countries, possession of drugs is a death penalty crime.

eg8r
06-23-2003, 10:57 AM
If you go back and read what you copied it was stated right there. Once again we get back to the comprehension part of the reading that fails you. In your first post you made some remark about a ghost or something (I don't care to go back and read it) posting. If you would have taken a look at the date of FL's post you would have been able to figure it out. The DATE was the important fact you did not notice.

[ QUOTE ]
why is it that 1 in 4 Afro-Americans are at any given moment involved with the Criminal Justice System . <font color="blue"> Not sure where you came up with this statistic. Show us the source. Anyways, back to the question, I don't know. Why is it that 3 out of 4 are not African-American? I guess color matters to you.</font color>

In NY , 75% of offenders were from the same 6 districts. <font color="blue"> where is this statistic coming from. What does it matter. Let me help you out, maybe that section of the state has the most criminal activity. I guess where you are from, you need to have the criminals all spread out nice and evenly. </font color>

The jails are filling up with people doing 20 years for possession of narcotics .
3 strikes and you,re out is the most barbaric and unjust system in the civilised world . <font color="blue"> Why should you get 3 strikes, let alone more? </font color>
Only in America ! <font color="blue"> Thank God. I would hate to be anywhere else. </font color>
<hr /></blockquote>

eg8r

Qtec
06-23-2003, 11:14 AM
The 3-strikes law was lobbied heavily by the NRA for years.
It finally passed in California after the murder of Polly Klaas. The politicians rode the political correctness of the 3-strikes law to get votes.

<font color="blue"> Exactly . This was a vote catcher , nothing else. </font color>


The trial lawyers of America opposed this law for years because of the buisiness they would lose from repeat offenders from being locked for a long time.

<font color="blue"> I dont think they are short of customers. I saw that a new privatised prison had a contract for 27,000 prisoners . Where else can you get people to work for 4ct p/hour </font color>


Drugs is the cause of most of the violent crimes in this country. Locking dealers early prevents more violent crimes that eventually are commited by these people. I don't really have sympathy for them


<font color="blue"> Its not the dealers who are being locked up , its the users and the guy on the street . He,s the guy who takes all the risk . He is the at the bottom of the pile .They have kids of 10 yrs selling for them . The effectiveness of the act is nil.</font color>

Q, 3-strikes law is nowhere the most barbaric law in the world. In some countries, possession of drugs is a death penalty crime


<font color="blue"> Not anywhere in Europe . In some mddle east countries they have the same attitude to alchohol. </font color>


Q

Qtec
06-23-2003, 02:37 PM
You want my source . You wont be able to understand it . Betcha. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Q

http://info.vpro.nl/info/tegenlicht/index.shtml?7738514+7738518+7738520+12490764#loadv ariables

Qtec
06-23-2003, 02:47 PM
De Amerikaanse Staat geeft elke seconde $ 630 uit om drugs te bestrijden, iedere 20 seconden wordt iemand gearresteerd op verdenking van een drugsdelict en elke dag worden er 117 mensen met een minimum straf van 5 jaar naar de gevangenis gestuurd. Mede hierdoor zitten er in de VS inmiddels ruim 2 miljoen mensen achter de tralies



America spends $630 per second in the fight against drugs, every 20 seconds someone is arrested on suspicion of a drug related offence and every day 117 people are sentenced to more than 5 years. Due to this more than 2 million people are behind bars.


Q

bolo
06-23-2003, 03:08 PM
What do you care, you don't live here? When is the last time you saw someone risk their life, just to come to Holland or France? You know nothing about this country. The streets truly are paved with gold for the people who are willing to come here and work. Cubans float here on a raft without a cent and in a short time own business and homes and a future for their children. There is and never has been any place like it. Too bad Dutch boy, it is easy see through your jealousy. Just accept this as a blanket statement for all the jabs you take at our country.

highsea
06-23-2003, 03:54 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> America spends $630 per second in the fight against drugs, every 20 seconds someone is arrested on suspicion of a drug related offence and every day 117 people are sentenced to more than 5 years. Due to this more than 2 million people are behind bars.
Q <hr /></blockquote>

Our drug laws are definitely more draconian than your's Q. However, the vast majority of people going up for extended periods are not going up for posession alone. In many cases there are existing warrants or firearm violations, and large quantities of drugs, which makes the offence trafficking, rather than simple posession. The average user is forced into a rehab program by the courts. rather than a long jail sentence. But if you are a big time dealer, or manufacturing, you are going to jail.

Also, it makes a difference what type of drug they are busted for. Cocaine, Meth, and Heroin are treated somewhat differently than pot.

The 3 strikes laws in the US were intended to go after the repetetive violent offender. The laws as written do not specify that clearly in many cases, just 3 time felons. This has meant that someone with 3 drug felonies can be sent up for life under 3 strikes. (I know someone that this happened to.)

Many states are working to re-write the laws to specify crimes of violence.

-CM

eg8r
06-23-2003, 09:22 PM
I guess you ignored what I posted. Do you have a source or do you like to pick numbers in the sky.

eg8r

eg8r
06-23-2003, 09:24 PM
Well, they got their data somewhere. Might even been hidden in the text. If not, quite funny you would be posting their numbers and believing them, without ever wanting to know where their numbers come from.

Do I dispute them, no not yet, till I see where they came from. It does not surprise me at all, we have fools running all over the place using/pushing/selling the drugs. If you decide to live a life of crime then do the time (not a poet:) ).

eg8r

bolo
06-23-2003, 10:49 PM
Check out this site and you will be able to read it. It's pretty cool. Don't know if they are on the list though, what do they speek in Holland

http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/

nAz
06-23-2003, 11:05 PM
hehe Bablefish.

highsea
06-23-2003, 11:15 PM
They speak Dutch. (as opposed to deutch)

Babelfish has deutch, but not dutch.

-CM

SpiderMan
06-24-2003, 09:37 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> Prisons are big buiseness in America . Q <hr /></blockquote>

That's definitely the case. My friend "Possum" got put in the local hoosegow back home in Mississippi. They charge him $6.50 for each 15-minute phone call. No incoming calls, and outgoing are collect only so that they get their charges billed by the recipient's local provider.

SpiderMan

Qtec
06-24-2003, 09:55 AM
You can begin by the Fortune Society , they have all the links to statistical info .

[ QUOTE ]
It does not surprise me at all, we have fools running all over the place using/pushing/selling the drugs. If you decide to live a life of crime then do the time (not a poet:) ).
<hr /></blockquote>


eg8r , I am on earth , Which planet are you on . ? Have you ever been OUTSIDE America . Got a surprise for you , "Most of the world is ".

You are going to tell me now that I have to buy America,s GM sh-t so we can save starving Africa . As far as I know , GM crops still need water . /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

New thread maybe ? Do you dare ?????? /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Q

Qtec
06-24-2003, 10:26 AM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3011096.stm


Another example of the American justice that the rest of the world so desperately wants ? The Geneva convention .??
Again that only applies to American POWs.

eg8r
06-24-2003, 11:54 AM
[ QUOTE ]
They charge him $6.50 for each 15-minute phone call. No incoming calls, and outgoing are collect only so that they get their charges billed by the recipient's local provider.
<hr /></blockquote> What a mess the phone system is. I get a call from my brother in Orlando stating my phone bill there is $320. I was freaked out and wondered what it was for. There is no long distance on the phone. He calls the phone company and they state that those charges come from the correctional facility. We do not have any friends in jail, so we did not understand why we were being charged. Long story short, the correctional facility had our number in their DB and had set up a charge account under that number (no idea who authorized this). This charge account let some inmate talk to whomever they wanted and it was charge to our phone bill. It took two months to get that fixed. The whole time the phone was turned off because we refused to pay the bill. Once it all got fixed, then phone company had already given our number away to someone else, so now we had to get a new number.

What a mess. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

eg8r

Chris Cass
06-24-2003, 11:59 AM
Hi ya eg8r,

Not to change the thread but I called home on a hotel phne from Mn. where I was at a tourney (Red Wing). I went to checkout and they charged me over $100. I was floored. I never talked that long. Never again.

Regards,

C.C.~~ /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

eg8r
06-24-2003, 12:00 PM
I noticed your disregard to my question. Care to answer it? Is it easier for you to change the subject?

[ QUOTE ]
Another example of the American justice that the rest of the world so desperately wants ? The Geneva convention .?? <hr /></blockquote> Are you asking a question? Or do you not know the rest of our punctuation symbols?

What do you see wrong? What are they doing against the GC?

I think it would make more sense for you to put some thought and effort into these posts and state what it is you have a problem with. Tell us what was wrong with what you read.

eg8r

eg8r
06-24-2003, 12:06 PM
That sucks. At least you had an idea you would be charged something. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif Never expected it to be that much.

We had no idea any of this was happening. The correctional facility stated that we had to have accepted the charges once before. When they gave us the date the first charge happened (the day we supposedly accepted the call), my bro was in NY delivering some cars and his roomates were all in La at a car show. It was a complete mess. When we proved they were wrong and trying to steal money, they got pissy. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

eg8r
06-24-2003, 12:23 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote q:</font><hr> You can begin by the Fortune Society , they have all the links to statistical info . <font color="blue"> I am not hunting down your numbers. If you have the link to the numbers, then fine, otherwise they are numbers from the sky. </font color>


Quote: eg8r
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It does not surprise me at all, we have fools running all over the place using/pushing/selling the drugs. If you decide to live a life of crime then do the time (not a poet:) ).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




eg8r , I am on earth , Which planet are you on . ? Have you ever been OUTSIDE America . <font color="blue"> Are you so naive to believe you are the only one that has travelled outside of America? </font color>

Got a surprise for you , "Most of the world is ". <font color="blue"> I have a surprise for you. This statement is getting dumb. Who is disagreeing with you. You continue to say this and no one has aruged with you. Who are you debating/discussing with? </font color>

You are going to tell me now that I have to buy America,s GM sh-t so we can save starving Africa . As far as I know , GM crops still need water . <font color="blue"> You need to be a little clearer or make sure you are replying to the correct post. In my previous post I am not trying to tell you anything. This is another example of you not comprehending what you are reading, or you are unable to put a few logical thoughts down. I stated that if you do the crime, then do the time. Where in that am I telling you to buy GM stuff? You really are losing it. </font color>

New thread maybe ? Do you dare ?????? <font color="blue"> You might as well. You obviously do not know how to continue in one logical direction and you continue to dirty the waters with other American policy you do not like. Start as many as you would like. I just ask that you try real hard to not change the subject everytime you run out of things to say. </font color> <hr /></blockquote>

eg8r

Qtec
06-25-2003, 04:22 AM
In 1973, there were 328,670 arrests logged in the FBI's Uniform Crime Reports (UCR) for drug law violations. In 2001, that number rose to 1,586,902 arrests for drug law violations logged in the UCR. Also in 2001, there were a reported 627,132 arrests for all violent crimes, out of a total 13,699,254 arrests for all offenses.

Source: FBI Uniform Crime Reports 1973. Note: 1973 data supplied by the National Criminal Justice Reference Service. Crime in America: FBI Uniform Crime Reports 2001 (Washington, DC: US Government Printing Office, 2002), p. 233, Table 29.


Of the 1,586,902 arrests for drug law violations in 2001, 80.6% (1,279,043) were for possession of a controlled substance. Only 19.4% (307,859) were for the sale or manufacture of a drug.

Source: Crime in America: FBI Uniform Crime Reports 2001 (Washington, DC: US Government Printing Office, 2002), p. 232, Table 4.1 &amp; and p. 233, Table 29.


Although people may think that the Drug War targets drug smugglers and 'King Pins,' in 2001, 45.6 percent of the 1,586,902 total arrests for drug abuse violations were for marijuana -- a total of 723,628. Of those, 641,109 people were arrested for marijuana possession alone. This is a slight decrease from 2000, when a total of 734,497 Americans were arrested for marijuana offenses, of which 646,042 were for possession alone.

Marijuana Arrests and Total Drug Arrests in the US
Year Total Drug Arrests Total Marijuana Arrests Marijuana Trafficking/Sale Arrests Marijuana Possession Arrests
2001 1,586,902 723,628 82,519 641,109
2000 1,579,566 734,497 88,455 646,042
1999 1,532,200 704,812 84,271 620,541
1998 1,559,100 682,885 84,191 598,694
1995 1,476,100 588,964 85,614 503,350
1990 1,089,500 326,850 66,460 260,390
1980 580,900 401,982 63,318 338,664

Sources: Federal Bureau of Investigation, Crime in America: FBI Uniform Crime Reports 2001 (Washington, DC: US Government Printing Office, 2002), p. 232, Table 4.1 &amp; and p. 233, Table 29; Uniform Crime Reports for the United States 2000 (Washington DC: US Government Printing Office, 2001), pp. 215-216, Tables 29 and 4.1; Uniform Crime Reports for the United States 1999 (Washington DC: US Government Printing Office, 2000), pp. 211-212; Federal Bureau of Investigation, Uniform Crime Reports for the United States 1998 (Washington DC: US Government Printing Office, 1999), pp. 209-210; FBI, UCR for the US 1995 (Washington, DC: US Government Printing Office, 1996), pp. 207-208; FBI, UCR for the US 1990 (Washington, DC: US Government Printing Office, 1991), pp. 173-174; FBI, UCR for the US 1980 (Washington, DC: US Government Printing Office, 1981), pp. 189-191.


[ QUOTE ]

Our drug laws are definitely more draconian than your's Q. However, the vast majority of people going up for extended periods are not going up for posession alone. In many cases there are existing warrants or firearm violations, and large quantities of drugs, which makes the offence trafficking, rather than simple posession. The average user is forced into a rehab program by the courts. rather than a long jail sentence. But if you are a big time dealer, or manufacturing, you are going to jail.

Also, it makes a difference what type of drug they are busted for. Cocaine, Meth, and Heroin are treated somewhat differently than pot.
<hr /></blockquote>


Q

Wally_in_Cincy
06-25-2003, 06:31 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr>

....I think it would make more sense for you to put some thought and effort into these posts and state what it is you have a problem with. .....

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

I gave up trying to understand him weeks ago /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Qtec
06-25-2003, 08:21 AM
The point is , Wally, the Law has been hijacked by politicians for there own purposes and its the people who are at the botom of the pile that are paying the price.

deaths 2002 - Smoking related , 450,000
weed 0

Q

Sid_Vicious
06-25-2003, 09:32 AM
Damn good research Q! Something tells me though that many of the conservatives probably even blew off reading all of those astoundingly demonstrative sets of documented statistics indicating(IMMHO) just who the legal system is "using." I find it sad to see just how our government has decided to incarcerate the plain, simple pot user while at the same time dishing out modest to light sentences for murder, rape and armed robbery in relative comparison to what is thrown at you for having the bad &amp; evil little weed. You'd think everyone would wake up some day and be really embarrassed, but those blinders are pretty thick, some will merely choose to not listen to the facts...sid

Wally_in_Cincy
06-25-2003, 09:54 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> The point is , Wally, the Law has been hijacked by politicians for there own purposes and its the people who are at the botom of the pile that are paying the price.

deaths 2002 - Smoking related , 450,000
weed 0

Q <hr /></blockquote>

I agree. Pot should be totally legal. Not sure about the harder stuff. That's a tough call. Prison should be for violent people and thieves, not for recreational drug users

highsea
06-25-2003, 10:16 AM
Q, these statistics are for ARRESTS. Of course the most ARRESTS will be basic posession cases. Most pot smokers are not pot dealers or smugglers. Give me some numbers on actual convictions/jail time.

The cops arrest a user, then try to get him to roll over on his dealer. That's how they work. Possession of marijuana may not even be a federal offence, I'm not sure. It's always prosecuted at the local level, unless there is trafficking involved. (has to be over state lines for the FBI to be involved)

When I was a kid in Alaska, it was legal to posess under 40 grams, and legal to grow up to 3 plants. It was illegal to buy or sell. Today posession is illegal. Oregon was the same way. California passed a law a couple years back that made "medicinal" possesion legal.

BTW, where did you did up these numbers? NORML? Just curious, they don't paint an accurate picture actual convictions.

-CM

highsea
06-25-2003, 10:40 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3011096.stm


Another example of the American justice that the rest of the world so desperately wants ? The Geneva convention .??
Again that only applies to American POWs.
<hr /></blockquote>

Shame, shame, Q. The US follows the Geneva Conventions. I don't suppose you notice that our emenies *never* do. An American soldier captured in war will *not* be treated like we treat our enemies. Likely he will be executed on the spot. If not, he will be tortured, and used for propaganda purposes. The captured Iraqi soldiers were treated better by us then their own army.

The guys in Cuba are terrorists, not Afghani Soldiers. I asked you this once before, do you want them? We don't. You can have them if you promise to keep them. If these guys are cut loose, what do you think they will do?

They're Al Qaeda, not taliban soldiers. Whenever we captured a taliban soldier, we took his gun, sent him home, and told him to stay there. Just like in Iraq, most of them were conscripts. They are no threat to us.

Al Qaeda is, and we are not going to just cut these guys loose on the world. You should be thanking us for it rather than criticizing.

Bashing America is the popular pastime in Europe these days. I think it is foolish, you guys have not made any new friends on this side of the pond lately.

http://www.smilies.org/basesmilies3/911A.gif

-CM

Keith Talent
06-25-2003, 12:26 PM
Q,

I sometimes take a look at your knee-jerk pinko rants before my eyes start to glaze over. Tell me one thing, which I haven't been able to figure out yet ... have you ever set foot in the U.S., or do you get all this bile straight from Noam Chomsky, Michael Moore and the BBC?

Qtec
06-25-2003, 01:11 PM
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/welcome.html
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/correct.htm
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/abstract/cfjs98.htm.

These are Govt statistics . You can go to the fortune society , they have lots of links to statistics .

Here,s a good one .Before GW came to power in 98, most people [ 40% ] thought the economy was the most important issue. One year after the election , the media blitz which began right after GW was elected had its effect, most people [ 40% ] now thought DRUGS was the most important issue !

Q

Keith Talent
06-25-2003, 01:29 PM
Q, your squirrely bb shots at the U.S. through a smog of hash smoke have hit the mark yet again. Zzzzzzzzz.

Qtec
06-25-2003, 01:33 PM
Can you tell me why it is that whenever I criticise or question , I am America bashing or like you said " I am a pinko" /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif
Its exactly this attitude that stops people from openly debating the facts and not just accepting the Govt. propaganda that consumes the American press .

Q

Keith Talent
06-25-2003, 01:44 PM
Because you're posts are relentlessly anti-American and they follow the lefty line all day and all night.

So, have you ever been here? Do you have any idea why we might see things differently than the average European?

06-25-2003, 01:53 PM
I don't normally post on these political issues because I don't come to this board to talk politics. Everybody is entitled to their opinions, no matter how idiotic they may be (mine OR yours).

However, I want to briefly address the Geneva Convention issue. I don't know how many here are veterans who've dealt with POW's (actually, the current term is EPW, not POW). I have. I'm a Desert Storm veteran, at the time assigned to the 2nd Armored Cavalry Regiment. In case you don't know anything about the cavalry (which many now know because of the embedded journalist from CNN in the 7th Cav during Op Iraqi Freedom), in a nutshelf their mission is to be the first non-spec-ops force on the battlefield, running ahead of main armored and infantry units to fix and destroy lead enemy elements to be engaged by the follow-up armor/infantry divisions. Due to our mission as the 7th Corps lead element in Desert Storm, we had the very first contact with all of the EPW's in our sector of operations. We handled them ourselves (disarming, feeding, watering, treating injuries, etc.) until their numbers became so great that we could not keep up and still continue the mission. It got to the point that when we would meet a group of surrendering enemy, we would simply take their weapons, ensure they weren't badly injured, hand them an MRE and a bottle of water, point them to our rear, and tell them to keep walking until rear-echelon units could pick them up. Many were obviously shocked that we didn't immediately have our way with them and shoot them in the head. I have some very touching memories of specific EPW's that I won't disclose here, but let me say there were few dry eyes among us hardened soldiers when it came to certain prisoners and their condition.

Qtec, let me just say that the US Armed Forces treat enemy prisoners in a FAR better fashion than their own armed forces and government does. My squadron alone handled approximately 2500 EPW's. They had been brainwashed into believing, apparently like much of the world, that Americans would torture and abuse them, so at first they were terrified of us. However, the truth quickly spread, and we were overrun with surrendering enemy. The fact was, we fed them better, housed them better, and treated their injuries better, than their own people did. Many, and I mean MANY, were repatriated back to Iraq against their will. Saudi Arabia refused to keep them or grant them asylum, and we certainly couldn't "keep" the many thousands, so they were essentially forced back to Iraq. Many that I talked to personally did NOT want to return to Iraq, and begged us to let them stay with us.

Soldiers, particularly Western soldiers, are a compassionate lot. We might kill each other under fire, but it's because we're trained and disciplined to follow orders and carry out our mission, not because of a deep-seated desire to kill everything that moves. Of course there are an extremely few Rambo-types who enjoy killing enemy, but they are a very rare exception and are quickly culled out. The US military does NOT want that image. Everybody I knew and served with on the front lines did all we could to preserve enemy life, even going so far as to risk our own lives to save an enemy solder's life. Very much unlike what they did for our prisoners, I might add.

Sorry for the long-winded rant, but this is a hot-topic with me, and I am deeply offended when people ignorantly regurgitate and believe everything they hear from the liberal media or opposing propeganda about our behavior on the battlefield.

That's enough from me on this stuff, I'm going back to the pool thread... /ccboard/images/graemlins/mad.gif

Qtec
06-25-2003, 02:04 PM
No I have never been to America and If you had read my posts with an open mind you would know I am not anti-American but I do have a problem with the present administration.
Tell me how you see it ?
Q

Keith Talent
06-25-2003, 02:35 PM
A lot of people have jumped on the Bush-bashing bandwagon. The Clinton haters of the right are at least as obsessed.

How do I see it? Well, I'm not going to go through everything point by point, because I'd rather think about playing a better game of pool ...

In short ... sure, why not legalize the lightweight drugs? Though, personally, I think a bar full of problem drinkers has 10 times more moral fiber than any Amsterdam cafe crammed with weasely, furtive potheads. But then, I haven't been there, neither. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

But you really can't know what the scene is like on the street until you've been here. The depravity and degradation is hard to believe ... just multiply Jerry Springer by any given rap video and maybe you, too, might think Draconian measures aren't so far-fetched. Nevermind the root cause ... that's a whole nother story.

But one European solution for us that I'd be in favor of is a standard 6-week vacation! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

highsea
06-25-2003, 05:35 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> Here,s a good one .Before GW came to power in 98, most people [ 40% ] thought the economy was the most important issue. One year after the election , the media blitz which began right after GW was elected had its effect, most people [ 40% ] now thought DRUGS was the most important issue !

Q <hr /></blockquote>

I don't know what poll that was, but I can tell you that if you picked 100 people at random off the street, probably 3/4 would say that combatting terrorism is the most important issue regarding foreign policy, and the economy is the most important domestic issue.

-CM

Qtec
06-25-2003, 11:38 PM
This is wat I mean .When that guy McViegh ? blew up the FBI building , that was a terrorist action or not? Cant remember the US response to that .How many 'fanatics/patriots'were rounded up ? The UNA bomber ?People,s fears are being exploited ,its one diversion after another .



BTW glad to hear you are O.K . I knew that Orca would spit you out sooner or later . /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Q

highsea
06-26-2003, 02:31 AM
Sure, when McVeigh blew up the Fed building that was an act of terrorism. We do have instances of domestic terrorism here. The Anthrax case is suspected to be domestic. The unabomber is another example. Most cases are instances of a lone crazy or two. Not the kind of organized terrorism of Al Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah, etc.

McVeigh was caught leaving Oklahoma City. I think his cohort was arrested within a few days. There wasn't really a need for a big "roundup" in that case. We do have some radicals in the US, no doubt about it. People who firebomb churches and abortion clinics for example. That is also a form of terrorism. We have some fringe groups like the "Militias" who are very anti-government. These guys are under a lot more scrutiny since Oklahoma City, and security in and around public buildings is much tighter nowadays.

I don't know what you mean by peoples' fears' being exploited, unless you think that the gov't is using the war on terrorism to take peoples minds away from other issues.

-CM &lt;~~~lucky I had my trusty Zippo lighter. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Qtec
06-26-2003, 04:37 AM
Scince GW the issues have been ,
War on drugs, China { communists], Star Wars , then after 9/11 the War on Terrorism, War against WMD ,war of 'Liberation' in Iraq and now Terrorism again.


Double standards by the US.
Israel has WMD , it has UN resolutions against it that are 30 yrs old .Still they are backed by and finacially aided by the US . Attack Iraq ,protect Israel ?
If I was an Arab , can you give me any reason why I should trust the US?


[ QUOTE ]
I don't know what you mean by peoples' fears' being exploited, unless you think that the gov't is using the war on terrorism to take peoples minds away from other issues <hr /></blockquote>

YES!


Q

Qtec
06-26-2003, 08:47 AM
dmorris68, I am not talking about on the battlefield , I am talking about the prisoners being held in Cuba.
Why aren,t they being held in the US ?

I would not question the Armed forces or the ordinary soldier. The Geneva.Con. issue I am talking about is the fact that people from Afgahnistan are still being held . You cannot tell me for a fact that they are all terrorists.
This is a political decision, its got nothing to do with what happened in the war.
The fact is that if they were being held in America they would at least have some rights . At the momment they have none .
Q