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View Full Version : Hit that side pocket HARD



tateuts
06-23-2003, 04:52 PM
This was a new one on me, so I thought I would share it.

I was watching a match with between two strong semi-pros at our local tournament. One player had a side pocket shot at an extreme angle but he had to hit it very hard to get shape. The ball bounced back and forth and popped out. Basically, to my eye he made the shot, but the pocket wouldn't hold it. Amazingly, the same thing happened again later in the match.

I commented to a very good Canadian player sitting next to me that the player had made the shot, but the side pocket wouldn't hold it. He said "well, there's a trick to that we snooker players know. You aim for the part of the pocket where the edge of the cushion and the leather (or plastic)meet. If you can hit that joint, even if it's very hard, the ball will fall straight down. If you have such an angle that you can't hit that joint, it's not wise to hit the shot hard."

That goes into the "learn something new every day" category.

Chris

Sid_Vicious
06-23-2003, 06:20 PM
Would you mind laying it out on the WEI board,,,the angle that your semi-p players attempted the shot and missed? I'm curious ablut that angle of limitation...sid

qSHAFT
06-23-2003, 06:44 PM
Hey Chris,

Is this method for a snooker table or billiard table?

Cheers - qSHAFT

Rod
06-23-2003, 07:14 PM
Sid,
The wei is kind of hosed up for such a diagram. Notice the one ball = green line. That line is just at the separation of cushion and pocket liner. It goes from there. The 5 ball = yellow line due to a sharper angle can not hit inside far enough. At speed it won't stay in the pocket. Anything past roughly 45 to 50 degrees to the pocket is asking for trouble if shot hard. You can not hit deep enough into the pocket. The most forgiving side pockets I've ever played on is the Diamond pro.

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This about as close as I can diagram it.
Rod

Tom_In_Cincy
06-23-2003, 07:40 PM
Rod,
Diamond Pro forgiving? I must have been playing on Diamonds that had been modified. For me the OB has to be just perfect to hit the sides of the Diamond's side pockets to avoid the "right back atcha".

I have a short little practice drill of pre-stroke repetition and aimining. Postition "A" is in the middle of the first diamond of the long rails and the OB, at point "B" for the left side pocket and point "D" for the riight side pocket. 15 balls in each side for a warmup.

The speed is such that the OB hits the lip of the pocket rather than off the side of the pocket.

WEI Table (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/9egg/)


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06-23-2003, 07:44 PM
He was hitting a hard draw and was jacked up too high, that produces a double jump, you jump the cb where it lands on the ob, it jumps and hits too high up on the pocket and comes out. You can prove this to your self by laying quarters in front of the cb and the ob and neither ball will hit either quarter. When this shot comes up again, level your cue, draw the ball hitting up higher on the cb and the problem is solved. Todays tables are featuring lower pockets and that is causing this. Older tables had the high pockets with hard plastic that held the shots. Leather pockets are rounded and are also bad on kicking the shots back or letting the ob go over the top on the floor.
9 ball billy.

tateuts
06-23-2003, 08:12 PM
Tom and Rod have it figured out. If you aim the object ball toward the point where the cut on the siderail meets the pocket, you can hit the ball very hard and it will drop. If you hit the cut on the rail, however, it will bounce back into the other siderail and pop out.

In fact, my side pocket held better shooting at this joint than it did straight into the pocket!

Had anyone ever heard this great tip before? I sure haven't...

Chris

tateuts
06-23-2003, 08:14 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote qSHAFT:</font><hr> Hey Chris,

Is this method for a snooker table or billiard table?

Cheers - qSHAFT <hr /></blockquote>

Well, he said it worked in snooker too. I guess snooker pockets spit out those balls even worse - you know how those round cushions are - but I only tried it on a pool table.

Chris

Tom_In_Cincy
06-23-2003, 08:24 PM
Never heard the "tip" before, but learned from experienced.

Side Pocket shot Speed is very dependant on the type of table (not all tables are made with the same specs of throat depth and angles for the sides) and the folds of the rail colth. Each table manufaturer and table mechanic likes to have their special little signature on those damn side pockets.

Qtec
06-23-2003, 09:01 PM
You are right Tom , this isnt a 'tip'.It would depend on the table. Its more like one guy,s personal aiming help. Every side pocket has its limits . As the angle gets smaller [ acute ], there comes a point where you cant play it hard or the ball will come out. A ball goes or it doesnt .With one snooker exception.

A snooker cloth is different than a pool cloth . The snooker cloth has hairs called the 'nap'. This is why snooker tables are ironed . The effect of this can cause balls to roll off line . The slower the ball rolls , the greater the effect. This is why in snooker we try not to let the Qb roll over any distance.
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Most shots in snooker are therefor played with 'stun'. When playing across the table the effect is greatest , this is why balls played into the side pockets are played with pace. You can make the pocket bigger by playing softer but it is risky because if it doesnt drop , its over the pocket .
Stephen Hendry missed this shot for the World Championship[ dead straight] .He couldnt hit it hard [ scratch] so he had to play it soft !
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Qtec

Sid_Vicious
06-23-2003, 09:09 PM
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Rod...how's this layout, all I did was slide the cb a little...sid

Nick B
06-23-2003, 09:19 PM
I think you guys are missing something...how about a Tip of inside "help me" english. I find it very effective for getting the hole to accept the firm ball.

Nick

nAz
06-23-2003, 09:48 PM
So is it posible to shoot a ball that is at this position, on a level table that is.

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Wei Not (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/9egg/)

Sid_Vicious
06-23-2003, 10:05 PM
That depends. If it is on a double shimmed pocket, it's doubtfull unless played with serious, exact pocket speed, nothing less. Standard pockets,,,piece of cake, unless you put speed on the stroke...sid

Rod
06-23-2003, 10:11 PM
On the wei since that's all we have you can see a good hit on the one will just clear the right point as shown by the two ball. It can be fired in. On the 5, a somewhat wider angle, narrow pocket opening, you can see it has to hit further outside. Its to far out to be shot hard. Depending on how the pocket is cut it could go on a softer hit.
These are tough to diagram exact. Use the 9 egg table, the ball to pocket size ratio is near correct. 9 egg (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/9egg/)

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Today I played on some big pockets but due to the pocket angle they were not as big as they appeared. Easy yes but hit them a tad off at speed, it spits the balls out. Every table plays a different tune. LOL

Rod

Rod
06-23-2003, 10:18 PM
Yes it will go depending on the table, obviously at slow speed. Here is one a friend did, I tried it but my speed was off a tad. START(
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9 egg (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/9egg/)

LOL it rolls in a tad at the side pocket.

Rod
06-23-2003, 10:40 PM
Tom,
I think there huge personally, course the corners are a little snug. That drill/shot you show will fine tune your aim. I do something similar except down the long rail. The idea is to not touch the rail into the pocket. I shoot half one way then shoot 7 or 8 the other direction. I shoot them on both sides and use all 4 corners. Not real difficult but again don't touch the side rail with the o/b. I find shots like your or mine very good for fine tuning small discrepancies in stance, aim and a true straight stroke.

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If I shoot more than a couple of racks I'll start firing them in. Then I move whitey around the table different distances.

Rod

nAz
06-23-2003, 11:04 PM
@ Sid I bet it would be harder on a shimmed pocket if not impossible.

@ Rod that looks impossible, but I will give it a few tries sometime this week. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Rod
06-23-2003, 11:35 PM
It's not worth the effort nAz. If the table doesn't roll in at the side it ain't going. About all it's good for is finess at slow speed.