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View Full Version : Impossible shot or bad reading comprehension?



Deniel
06-26-2003, 03:55 AM
I was browsing AZBilliards.com. I came across this article (AZBilliards Article (http://www.azbilliards.com/wonderboys/wonder25.cfm)) I had to re-read the article 3 times and I still can't believe I'm reading it right ^__^ This is my interpretation of the shot
START(
%Kg4Z7%Pm8Z6%Q]0Y1%R`5[0%WD2Y7%Xf3Z6%Ys1[8%ZC2Y7
)END

Wei Table (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/9egg/)

So the ob went in line A and came back in line B??
Do I get it right? if so.. how's that shot possible LOL ^__^

Deniel <-- questioning his reading comprehension

Qtec
06-26-2003, 04:15 AM
Yes , I saw that one two. As I understand it ,the OB still had a little check side on it when it hit the short rail [ left hand side].Great shot !
Qtec

Deniel
06-26-2003, 04:21 AM
I guess theoretically you can do this with lotsss of outside english (right english in this case I believe), but it'd take a very dirty ball to achieve enough spin transfer to alter that ball off its natural deflection path.

Deniel

Fred Agnir
06-26-2003, 06:22 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deniel:</font><hr> I guess theoretically you can do this with lotsss of outside english (right english in this case I believe), but it'd take a very dirty ball to achieve enough spin transfer to alter that ball off its natural deflection path.

Deniel <hr /></blockquote>Looks like inside english to me.

Fred &lt;~~~ standard one-pocket shot, right?

Qtec
06-26-2003, 06:22 AM
I agree , you would have to play it very hard with extreme QB RHside . Maybe some of the pool players can answer this one .I have no other explanation.

Qtec

Sid_Vicious
06-26-2003, 07:12 AM
START(
%Kr6Q7%Pr9M5%Q]0Y1%R`5[0%Ws0D1%Xq0[0%Yq3Z5%Zr7R1

)END

Here's that shot in a normal 1-p routine, I saw it this last weekend and asked how it was done! I had this very shot shown to me by a different player on another day than the one which initially surprised me with it's seemingly flawless execution. My expectation when he lined up on it was that he was going to use the point on the pocket since the angle was basically non-existent. NAAA, without hesitation he played inside english, rebounded off of the long rail as indicated and split the pocket. Your shot looks like a mere extension of the same execution, I imagine even easier since the CB has more time to get the heck out of the way for the return trip...sid~~~imagines that some 1-P players will respond to this thread later on

Qtec
06-26-2003, 08:03 AM
I think the point is that the Ob travelled the length of the table and still had spin on it . I would expect no spin at all to still be on it when it hits the rail . ???
Qtec

Fred Agnir
06-26-2003, 08:26 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> I think the point is that the Ob travelled the length of the table and still had spin on it . I would expect no spin at all to still be on it when it hits the rail . ???
Qtec <hr /></blockquote>It still has spin on it. It doesn't take much spin to have that kind of an effect off the cushion (pool cushion, at least).

Fred

caedos
06-26-2003, 08:37 AM
What about rail crush that changes the return angle?
That would be related to this shot that can be made shooting a one diamond stop shot with the cue ball :
START(
%AZ4J2%P[1P2%WZ5L0%XZ9O3%YY7D5%ZZ2I2%[Y5Z5%\Y5C6%][8D5%^Y5Z9

)END

Or just spin it, right?

Kato
06-26-2003, 08:58 AM
Inside spin and a real nice stroke it looks like. This shot would give me massive amounts of problems.

Kato

Sid_Vicious
06-26-2003, 09:03 AM
Seems to me that with the speed needed to get the full round trip up &amp; back, that keeping the spin would be not-so-hard. I don't play 1-hole so I'm talking pure theory acquired from other billiard sports, still as it's been stated, "It's just balls and a stick Man!" sid

Fred Agnir
06-26-2003, 09:13 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote caedos:</font><hr> What about rail crush that changes the return angle?
That would be related to this shot that can be made shooting a one diamond stop shot with the cue ball :
START(
%AZ4J2%P[1P2%WZ5L0%XZ9O3%YY7D5%ZZ2I2%[Y5Z5%\Y5C6%][8D5%^Y5Z9

)END

Or just spin it, right?


<hr /></blockquote>I've found this to be very cushion dependent. Some cushions out there won't impart enough spin on the object ball.

Fred

Rod
06-26-2003, 11:28 AM
Deniel,
I think there is three things we do not know. 1 the players knowledge of the table, rolls cushion ect. Two the player did not see the set up as described. Three, he played the shot off the point.

Here is a 1P shot that works well with a little practice which is what I believe happened in your diagram except this is a short version. START(
%AC8L8%BL7P8%CJ5O4%DL7N1%EM7P1%FK6P1%GK6N8%HM7N8%I L7O4%PC7S2
%UD8D4%VC9K6%YC7Z5%ZE0C5
)END

wei (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/9egg/)

What's great about this shot is even if you don't make it you can put the ball near your pocket and hide the c/b behind the rack. Depends on what's happening with other balls of course. On this shot use no english, center ball. Your after aim only, besides any english, in this case right would be gone after the ball compresses into the rail it is on.

More common is 1P shots like this. START(
%AL5Z3%BL8P7%CJ7O4%DL8N2%EM7P1%FK7P1%GK7N8%HM7N8%I L7O4%JK8M6
%KJ7P7%LJ7N2%MK7Q3%NJ7Q9%OJ7M0%PG6Y9%WD7[3%Xs4Y3%[r7Y2%\M2Z4
)END

Your not using the point, it does hit the rail. Once again, no english. I know you or some others may say you need inside, not true. Center ball, the contact induced throw is all you need to bring it back to the corner. Aim is the critical factor, english just makes it more difficult. Yes you can use inside but your shot percentage will most likely go down.

Rod

Sid_Vicious
06-26-2003, 12:04 PM
START(
%AD0O2%BL7P8%CJ5O4%DL7N1%EM7P1%FK6P1%GK6N8%HM7N8%I L7O4%PC7S2
%QG1I4%RO9H8%S\1C1%TO6T7%UE4D1%VD1N7%YC7Z5%ZE4C4
)END

Rod...The player I saw on Wednesday night hit this shot just as pictured, and he did not use the point, I watched cuz that was my idea as well. Note that I've moved the OB closer to the CB than you had it, but tried to keep the same spacing to the short rail. Also I should say that this 1-P player stacks up($$$) as one of the best players in our area. He hesitated none in the approach or the execution of this nice little stroke shot.

Rod
06-26-2003, 12:28 PM
Sid,
The shot I showed both ball were frozen. It appears your shot the one is off the rail. I think you may have not seen it the way you imagined. Not saying your wrong or any of the sort just some things need to be explained. Did c/b pass inside on the bank? Did it pass outside and where did the c/b come to rest? Curious minds want to know. LOL

Rod

Sid_Vicious
06-26-2003, 03:12 PM
Tell you the truth, I don't remember where the CB went, but I understand from the second 1-P player who I asked about that shot, getting the CB outta the way is the sneaky part. I was simply amazed that he could hit without going off of the point and get back, with an angle of almost nothing.

I failed to notice that your OB was cinched on the short rail(WEI), that's one hellova a shot! sid

Rod
06-26-2003, 03:18 PM
Sid,

I don't know if you play one hole but the shot is always good to get close to your pocket. Try it. It could come up sometime in a game, like a safety or something. On your shot if the c/b stayed inside that's a dam good shot to.

Rod

Deniel
06-26-2003, 10:29 PM
Inside english? Both balls are frozen to the long side rail, so inside english here would mean left hand english? Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't left hand spin on cb would transfer into right hand spin on ob, if so the spin will magnify the reflection to the right and missing the corner pocket by a mile?

Deniel &lt;-- my beginner self start to show ^__^

Qtec
06-27-2003, 04:04 AM
Daniel , thank you for bringing this up because I also was confused about this IE and OE . Let me explain .

The shot in question is played with IE , in this case RHS[ Rhight hand side ] Now comes the bit I like .


<font color="brown"> IE can be RHS or LHS depending on which side of the Ob you are hitting. This is also the case for OE.

IE can be check side or running side depending on which rail you hit first after hitting the OB. The same applies to OE. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif </font color>

Confused ? You should be .



It sounds like a puzzle but its very simple really. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Qtec

Fred Agnir
06-27-2003, 07:09 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deniel:</font><hr> Inside english? Both balls are frozen to the long side rail, so inside english here would mean left hand english? <hr /></blockquote>No. In this particular shot, inside english would be right-hand. Why? Because you've cut the object ball to the right. Inside english is the same side as the direction of the cut.

Fred

Ross
06-27-2003, 08:58 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> Here is a 1P shot that works well with a little practice which is what I believe happened in your diagram except this is a short version. START(
%AC8L8%BL7P8%CJ5O4%DL7N1%EM7P1%FK6P1%GK6N8%HM7N8%I L7O4%PC7S2
%UD8D4%VC9K6%YC7Z5%ZE0C5
)END
wei (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/9egg/)

What's great about this shot is even if you don't make it you can put the ball near your pocket and hide the c/b behind the rack. Depends on what's happening with other balls of course. On this shot use no english, center ball. Your after aim only, besides any english, in this case right would be gone after the ball compresses into the rail it is on.

Rod <hr /></blockquote>

Are both balls supposed to be frozen to the rail? Then how do you cut the one to the right? If the cb were slightly off the rail you might be able to hit the rail first, compressing it, and cut the one. But if the cb is frozen a diamond away, I don't see how you can do anything but shoot the one straight or cut it into the rail. What am I missing here?

Rod
06-27-2003, 09:19 AM
Ross,

Both balls are frozen. They don't have to be this exact position on the rail. You cut the 1 to the left it comes off the rail and catches the point and returns back. You can use a little right eng but it is not necessary. Practice it if you want, it's actually not a bad shot depending on the situation.

Rod

Sid_Vicious
06-27-2003, 09:32 AM
Rod...I put about 10 minutes into this shot when I got home last night and was at least able to get the OB back toward that other corner, but far from ever making it. Ten minutes isn't enough time to judge it except to say that I now know that this shot IS makeable. I'll tinker with it some more, but since I do not play 1-P, I'll probably not let it take much of my time...sid

Ross
06-27-2003, 10:15 AM
Oh, I didn't know it hit the point. Makes sense now - thanks.

Deniel
06-27-2003, 07:07 PM
Oh yeah, thanks Fred that's a great explanation ^__^

Deniel