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heater451
06-26-2003, 04:51 PM
I found myself in the basement last evening, so I rolled out the balls, and started hitting. About 3 racks in, I began shooting one side of the rack fast and hard, and then the other side softly--as if playing like two different players (didn't swap hands tho').

Anyway, I started thinking about how I would often miss during matches, when I tried to concentrate on shooting slowly and more methodically, over just 'running with it'. --I don't always have a problem shooting softly and slowly, but recently it hasn't really been working for me. . . .

Well, in the midst of shooting 'easy', I wound up hitting everything at pocket speed, and not factoring in position at all. It seems as if moving my concentration to the object ball and my desired power/speed, over focusing on the cue itself, helped lessen any "accidental" english. I continued shooting about 75 more balls this way, and had good pocketing percentages. --The shots were of random difficulty, but I'm still considering the average to be positive. . . .

My question is, does anyone else make use of pocket speed practice, and teach it to others? And, what do you specifically feel that it does for you?



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Rod
06-26-2003, 05:26 PM
Interesting Heater,
Yestertay during practice and play I shot in a number of balls at pocket speed. I mean they barely made it to the pocket and dropped. What kind of amazes me is how I can figure it so close. I left only one hanging on the lip. I waited, like waiting for a putt to drop. It didn't drop so I lifted the ball and inspected the cloth. There was a tiny bump, like the cloth was not even.

Anyway yes it is good to shoot balls soft. It really helps speed control on those touchy shots. Not only that but those small muscles tend to twitch when their used slowly and there not use to it. When I warm up the first few minutes everything is soft untill I get the small moves straight and smooth. I figure if I can't get past that what happens with more speed? It gets magnified. No need for any grip pressure, which by the way can or could cause unwanted english. Shooting soft that should never happen and there is no need to think about the cue. It's just there resting in your hand. As you increase speed, try the same concept. Granted you'll need a tiny bit more pressure but not near what most people use. Those Tiny Tiny increases as speed goes up is all you need. Then your smooth at a crawl to a firm hit. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

Rod

Terry
06-26-2003, 05:55 PM
Hi Heater, I find that people learning the game simply shoot to hard, as a result I think people continue to shoot to hard as they grow. If i'm helping someone to advance their game I tell them to shoot hard enough for the ball to fall of the edge of the pocket, this will deal with that always shooting to hard thing. You'll find that shooting pocket speed will be an asset on a fast cloth or on any cloth for that matter. Also shoot some long shots at pocket speed while killing the cueball.JMHO, Terry

Fran Crimi
06-26-2003, 06:33 PM
Well you sure do know how to make a person think, Heater. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

OK. Pocket Speed.

I think you may get different answers, depending on people's definition of pocket speed. To me, pocket speed is a range of speeds for any given shot that will assure the player the highest probability of pocketing the shot. The more of the pocket that you see, the wider range of speeds you have available. The less of the pocket you see (as with a sharp angled side pocket shot, or a shot along a rail), the tighter the range of speeds you have available to pocket the ball.

I think that what you were practicing was the soft-end of pocket speeds. That's good, but I think it would be even better for you to experiment with different speeds of a particular shot, so you can find the entire range of pocket speeds for that particular shot. Then when you see the shot in a match, you know what your minimum and maximum speed range is for the shot.

Fran

Tom_In_Cincy
06-26-2003, 08:04 PM
"pocket speed" is critical in One Pocket, so I get plenty of practice with this.

And, YES, this way of shooting (pocket speed) is a very healthy approach to all games (IMO).

I like to have a student shoot a "lag shot" and then ask them how many feet the cue ball just taveled. They usually answer "About 18 feet" (on a 9 foot table) and then I ask them how many shots come up that are 18 feet? Not that many right? so why hit the cue ball any harder than lag speed during an average shot? they usually get the point very quickly and slow down and end up making more shots.

I think this is one of the critical lessons for average players to learn to get to the next level.

Also; Using "Speed" and "rails" (rather side hits) for shape can improve a lot of the average player's game.

Hit them hard for show, soft for "the dough"

heater451
06-26-2003, 09:08 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> . . .I think that what you were practicing was the soft-end of pocket speeds. That's good, but I think it would be even better for you to experiment with different speeds of a particular shot, so you can find the entire range of pocket speeds for that particular shot. Then when you see the shot in a match, you know what your minimum and maximum speed range is for the shot.

Fran <hr /></blockquote>Hi, Fran,

I can see what you mean about "pocket speed" being a range, taking it as relative to the desired cue ball position, but like you figured, I was using the term as you said--in the "soft-end". I was only concerned with getting the object balls to just roll in before they stopped.

How often do you actually think about the maximum speed you can get away with for a shot?--I tend to hit harder when I want to use several rails, or draw sideways down the table off of a ball. I'll admit, however, that I will sometimes go for a 3-rail position, just to move the cue ball around the table. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

That probably makes me sound like a complete hack, but I still prefer to have fun over winning--Unfortunately, shooting well and winning usually winds up being "fun", while losing certainly isn't! I guess my thing is, I would rather play someone twenty games and have fun winning half of them, as opposed to only playing 10, and winning every one.

. . .Somewhat getting back to the subject, would you structure drills to shoot the same set shot at different speeds, or just shoot, say 100 balls at one speed, and then another 100 at another speed, and then another--etc., etc.?



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heater451
06-26-2003, 09:21 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr>. . .When I warm up the first few minutes everything is soft untill I get the small moves straight and smooth. I figure if I can't get past that what happens with more speed? It gets magnified. No need for any grip pressure, which by the way can or could cause unwanted english. Shooting soft that should never happen and there is no need to think about the cue. It's just there resting in your hand. As you increase speed, try the same concept. Granted you'll need a tiny bit more pressure but not near what most people use. Those Tiny Tiny increases as speed goes up is all you need. Then your smooth at a crawl to a firm hit. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

Rod <hr /></blockquote>You know, I've realized that I magnify the flaw in my stroke when I shoot hard (I do a partial wrist-roll, with a slight outward hand movement much of the time--might be coming around my body. . . .). But, I aim-compensate pretty well at short and medium, CB to OB distances. Also, shooting softly is very often worse, since the slower hit speed seems to result in more english on the CB, so it rolls out.

I was looking at how the 'change in focus' seemed to help out, but what you say about grip pressure makes sense--and is another one of those things that I forget about when I shoot hard. . .doing the "wind up" as I refer to it--where I take some nice, quick and clean practice strokes, and then tense up and hammer the at the CB! It's a bad habit that I just haven't broken yet.


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GreenLion
06-26-2003, 10:50 PM
I have a similair problem but the weird thing is it only happens alot when i test my stroke by sending the CB to the far rail and back to the tip of my stick.When i shoot medium to hard i usually have some english in my stroke but when i shoot soft my CB most of the time comes back to my tip.I dont have this happen alot in games.I know this cuase i normaly pocket most of my combination shots and you have to have a accurate stroke to do that.I make almost of my long stright in shots too.Im going to try focusing more on my grip pressure when testing my stroke.Thx for that tip Rod

Rod
06-27-2003, 01:05 AM
Wind up? LOL There is no wind up playing pool. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif It takes time but the only real way of training yourself is at slower speeds. You can't run before you walk. Warm up at slow speed and increase the speed until your bad habit appears ( tight grip and wrist roll ). When that happens slow down your speed until you feel the cue going back and forward in a straight line. You actually feel the cue weight. You'd be supprised if you get into this, how quickly you lose all sense of feel and weight when you get to quick. When you slow down a very importamt thing happens, you regain your sense of feel for the free swinging weight. It is like night and day. As time goes on you learn to play with a relaxed arm ( it won't be if you grasp the cue ) and you feel the cue ( penetrate ) the cue ball. When you penetrate the c/b it returns much more action with less effort. Let me explain, the slower you execute (more precise) you will get more than you bargained for because of the quality hit on the c/b. Granted you do have to hit the o/b as intended. However you will hit the o/b more (precise) because of the precise hit on the c/b. It's one of those, if you do this correct all things improve from there. There needs to be a constant, inconsistancy from the get go magnifies all errors. Then you start guessing what went wrong and it is a vicious endless cycle.

[ QUOTE ]
You know, I've realized that I magnify the flaw in my stroke when I shoot hard (I do a partial wrist-roll, with a slight outward hand movement much of the time--might be coming around my body. . . .). But, I aim-compensate pretty well at short and medium, CB to OB distances. Also, shooting softly is very often worse, since the slower hit speed seems to result in more english on the CB, so it rolls out.
<hr /></blockquote>

Well you have a speed, and shall I say learned to compensate somewhat for those speeds. On a good day when the timing is close, you pocket balls and play a good game. When your timing is off, no doubt it sort of goes to pot. You haven't as yet developed any speed and send the cue in a straight line through the c/b. The good part is your aware of the problem.

This might sound silly, In your shooting stance, hold a milk jug with 19 oz of weight or more with your index finger or fingers. Swing that weight back and forth. Feel that weight, let the water in the bottom dictate the rythm needed to keep the water from splashing from side to side or front to back. You have no need to steer that jug side to side, just concentrate on the rythm of that weight. It is much the same playing pool. You feel the weight swing back and then start forward. If you start forward to quick ( usually a tightened grip) and make a side move the water splashes to the side, back, whatever. You want to feel the water, or in this case cue weight guide your cue in a straight line. The very best players make this move from front to back slow or fast and let this weight go through the c/b.

I did not cover this very indepth because of all the typing etc. I just tried to make a point. If you have questions just ask or send a pm.

Rod

Keith Talent
06-27-2003, 02:43 AM
Rod,

"The rhythm of the weight," that's a beautiful description. Thinking of that ebb and flow as I'm finishing my last beer. Will try it out soon's I get out from under this overtime. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Qtec
06-27-2003, 03:34 AM
[ QUOTE ]
pocket speed" is critical in One Pocket, so I get plenty of practice with this.

And, YES, this way of shooting (pocket speed) is a very healthy approach to all games (IMO). <hr /></blockquote>


In games such as 9 ball , 14/1 ,rotation and snooker , leaving the ball over the pocket is a disaster !

IMO. The shot that you want to play dictates how hard or soft you hit the Qb.

Qtec

Fran Crimi
06-27-2003, 07:10 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote heater451:</font><hr> Hi, Fran,

I can see what you mean about "pocket speed" being a range, taking it as relative to the desired cue ball position, but like you figured, I was using the term as you said--in the "soft-end". I was only concerned with getting the object balls to just roll in before they stopped.

How often do you actually think about the maximum speed you can get away with for a shot?--I tend to hit harder when I want to use several rails, or draw sideways down the table off of a ball. I'll admit, however, that I will sometimes go for a 3-rail position, just to move the cue ball around the table. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

That probably makes me sound like a complete hack, but I still prefer to have fun over winning--Unfortunately, shooting well and winning usually winds up being "fun", while losing certainly isn't! I guess my thing is, I would rather play someone twenty games and have fun winning half of them, as opposed to only playing 10, and winning every one.

. . .Somewhat getting back to the subject, would you structure drills to shoot the same set shot at different speeds, or just shoot, say 100 balls at one speed, and then another 100 at another speed, and then another--etc., etc.?



====================== <hr /></blockquote>


Your post made me laugh because I know exactly what you mean about playing shots for the sake of having fun as opposed to the sometimes boring one-rail or stop shots. I'm having the most fun when I'm facing the challenge of a nearly impossible situation where I need to really stretch my imagination to figure out a way out of the rack.

To clarify a little on pocket speed as I see it: remember, there are speeds you can pocket a ball that are both harder and softer than pocketing speed but they fall out of pocketing speed range because there's a greater chance of missing the shot. So, when you're facing a decision to shoot a shot extremely hard or extremely soft, you're out of pocketing speed range and you have to pay extra attention to your pre-shot routine.

As for pocketing speed drills, I think it would benefit you more to set up one shot and shoot it with different speeds, combined with different spins. I've seen players who tend to shoot too hard practice shooting soft shots to tone down their stroke, but then what happens is they start shooting everything too soft and they become confused. My suggestion is that you teach yourself to shoot different speeds. Hard and soft are the extremes in the range. There are plenty of other speeds in-between that are just as important.

Fran

Ralph S.
06-27-2003, 07:29 AM
Fran, before I met and had my first lesson with Scott Lee, I would shoot the majority of my shots with medium to hard. Needless to say, I had no finesse game to speak of. One of the first things Scott started trying to break me of was shooting too hard, shooting more pocket speed. I try now to shoot true pocket speed when possible but learned that it isnt feasible for all shots.

His teaching of pocket speed shooting seems to be right on with what you are saying and now I have a decent finesse game which has improved greatly, and is still improving.

Qtec
06-27-2003, 07:41 AM
Let,s not forget the loose wrist.

Good post.


Q

06-27-2003, 11:07 AM
Ralph, Scott did the same for me Monday with our 11-hour marathon session.

I started playing over 25 years ago, and developed a pretty good game, but laid down the cue for over 10 years until last year. Since then, I've been frustrated that I couldn't get my game back to where it was before -- I had no consistency at all, and my game was all over the place -- dead stroke today, can't run 2 balls tomorrow. I felt like I had hit a wall and just wasn't improving.

Well, the first thing Scott noticed was that I was shooting too hard. Now, to me I wasn't trying to shoot hard, but just hard enough to get the action I wanted out of the cueball. The problem, as Scott explained to me, was that I have an unusually short swing path for a guy my size (6'2" 285 lbs), even though I'm completing my swing with my grip hand hitting my chest. So what would be a normal bridge length for most people was too long for me to get any more than an inch of follow through. Scott had me bridge about 2 inches or so closer to the CB, then grip the butt as far back as possible, all the way to the stopper, to get a long enough swing to get at least 4 inches of follow through. It's incredibly awkward right now, but when I force myself to do it, I get LOTS more cueball action at much softer speeds. I was able to draw 4-5 feet, with reasonable control, with a lag speed stroke when applying 2 tips of draw, where before I was banging hell out of the ball to get 2 feet if I was lucky.

Scott's instruction was priceless! Professional instruction is something that anyone serious about this game should seek out, and it isn't that expensive. Scott identified and corrected my flaw in about the first 10 minutes, so even one hour of instruction can be crucial to improve your game.

Ross
06-27-2003, 12:00 PM
Great post, Rod! I really like your imagery of the swinging weight.

One question though - can I do the drill with 2% low-fat or should I use whole milk?

Fran Crimi
06-27-2003, 01:39 PM
That's great, Ralph. Sounds like Scott put you on a good course. Glad to hear that he and I are both on the same page. I bet that once you started shooting shots in pocket speed range, you found that you didn't need nearly as much force as you thought you did. In fact, the art of finessing balls is all about using spin to move the cb rather than force. Once you get the feel for that, you'll wonder why you ever used so much force. Then you'll be approaching Efren Reyes territory. He may very well be the best finesse player this game has ever known.

Fran

06-27-2003, 02:50 PM

Rod
06-27-2003, 03:21 PM
Ross,
You need to use whole milk, you wouldn't want to end up 2% short. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

BTW I actualy have a small jug with a large opening in the handle. It's about quart size. It works either way but this way the weight is closer to your hand.

~~ HTH, LOL

heater451
06-27-2003, 03:59 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote whitewolf:</font><hr> . . .and BTW, I don't agree with Rod's theory presented below about having to tighten up your grip as you shoot harder. This will only tighten up your stoke and take out any fluidity you might have gained by just stroking softly and following through firmly and through the cue ball, accelerating all of the time of course. Knowing how to accelerate is the key. Your stroke does this, not the grip. The grip has and should have nothing to do with this. Lighter is better. Just go from there and let your stroke speed do the rest.

Good luck, WW <hr /></blockquote>WW, I think you are saying the same thing. . .I took Rod's mentioning of a tighter grip to mean just enough so that the cue doesn't leave the hand. Either way, I know that my strokes got issues, but seeing all paraphrasing helps remind me to think about it. . . .



==========================

heater451
06-27-2003, 04:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> . . .In fact, the art of finessing balls is all about using spin to move the cb rather than force. Once you get the feel for that, you'll wonder why you ever used so much force. Then you'll be approaching Efren Reyes territory. He may very well be the best finesse player this game has ever known.

Fran <hr /></blockquote>I find that VERY frustrating to deal with (needing practice, of course). . . .If I use more spin with less power for position, I usually wind up running a lot farther than I need. I have never really devoted any time to analyzing how much tip placement + stroke = spin/action--with the exception of one rail shots, going straight in, and using spin to come back 1 diamond or 2. Also, I practiced it some, for the "bar rules" shot, where you're in the kitchen, and shoot past the string w/ heavy spin, to pull the CB back to one of the corners.



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heater451
06-27-2003, 04:12 PM
That sounds like an interesting thing to try. Is it okay to cry over the spilt milk?



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Rod
06-27-2003, 04:32 PM
[ QUOTE ]
and BTW, I don't agree with Rod's theory presented below about having to tighten up your grip as you shoot harder. This will only tighten up your stoke and take out any fluidity you might have gained by just stroking softly and following through firmly and through the cue ball, accelerating all of the time of course. Knowing how to accelerate is the key. Your stroke does this, not the grip. The grip has and should have nothing to do with this. Lighter is better. Just go from there and let your stroke speed do the rest.
<hr /></blockquote>

WW,
Your entitled to your opinion of course, no problem. It seems I always need disclaimers if I don't write a book on a subject. As it reads it is increased a tiny amount. That means tiny, as in if I had my hand around your arm and increased a tiny amount you wouldn't know the difference. Now from slow speed to break speed there is small difference. I'm not talking about enought pressure to tighten any muscle. You make it sound like I said "GRIP/Squeeze" and that is light years from what I said or meant. Don't condem something if you don't understand the true meaning. Ask questions first.

Just so you know I don't get your part of shooting softly but follow thru "firmly" Tell me how that happens. Does it mean your more firm on the cue to acomplish this? A good follow through is not a forced motion. It happens because the cue was swung freely through the c/b. Ie, no increase in pressure through the cue ball. Your hand just rides the cue through and it happens naturally.

As you said, knowing how to accelerate is the key. Well that is a key but to have smooth acceleration the cue needs to be held light with no increase as you start forward or in the impact area. 95% of the pool players on the planet violate this basic fundamental. Your grip is the only element attached to the cue, it does control your stroke, not the other way around. Assuming all other fundamentals are good, it means if grip pressure changes during your stroke the cue gets out of it's direct aim line. If it stays passive then your total package as we call a "stroke" starts and accelerates straight and smooth through the c/b with a full follow through. It all happens naturally.

Just curious so I have to ask. Your saying your grip pressure is the same at slow speed or firm/break speed? If they are the same, you have a heavy hand at slow speed.

Rod

Rod
06-27-2003, 04:35 PM
No, there is no crying in pool or milk issues. LOL

Ralph S.
06-27-2003, 05:16 PM
dmorris68, you dont know how much we have in common LOL. Your response describes my situation exactly. I took a 12 year layoff and am slightly bigger physically. I am now back to the speed I used to play at, which as pretty decent but not great. Scott is invaluable in my opinion.

Ralph S.
06-27-2003, 05:20 PM
Hello Fran. You are right about not needing so much force. I was using so much at times, I thought I was gonna drill a hole in the cb LOL. You are also right in Reyes having one of the best if not the best finesse games out there. I could only dream of playing that well.

bluewolf
06-27-2003, 06:38 PM
Rod,

As usual,I hear very good things when you post as well as others. I, however have not analyzed this like you guys have.

The very soft speed that I think heater was referring to is one of the drills that scott teaches. This helped me a lot. When I started, I hit too soft and knowing what certain speed of stroking and varying backswing length has helped me to tie this to the results.

I do not usually hit too hard but can hit a firm speed now after some practice, so guess I have very soft (pocket speed), lag speed and firm(ob hits back of the pocket.

As far as grip and some say that you cannot hold it too light. I was holding my cue so light that the cue wobbled. I had to close down on that cue a little (less space between the thumb and the fingers) because the cue was shifting sideways too much in my hand,resulting in a wobbly stroke. Now it is a bit firmer, but still very light.

I guess I am either not expereienced enough or coordinated enough or both to understand holding it different for diffent stroke power, ie soft vs firm. I have never heard of this. I just try to hold it so it is steady but all of the force is in the cue and not in the grip.Is this way of holding the cue differnt lightnesses an advanced thing?

Laura

Rod
06-27-2003, 07:48 PM
Laura,
Let me explain it like this. When I shoot soft the cue is literally resting in my hand. If I need to shoot firm with the cue resting in my hand, my hand would slip forward on the cue and it wouldn't go anywhere. So obviously I need to close my hand around the cue a small amount. That's only enough to accelerate the cue without my hand slipping forward. Yes you can hold a cue to light. It's only a very slight difference. What I see is people hold to tight to begin with, then when they shoot hard it gets even tighter. When in fact their already holding the cue on a soft shot tight enough or much more to hit a firm or break shot.

[ QUOTE ]
Is this way of holding the cue differnt lightnesses an advanced thing?
<hr /></blockquote>

Lets just say as you get more experienced you learn to hold on only with enough pressure to compliment the shot. There is even a place for a somewhat firm grip. That is primarily used in combination with a shorter bridge and back hand moved forward to cut off the follow through.
Actually I see plenty of cut off follow thru's because of the firm grip. If you want follow through only hold on with enough pressure to accelerate the cue, and don't change that pressure when you go through the c/b. We (not you and I) had a conversation about this a short time ago. The grip can actually get even lighter through the c/b.

Yes you can vary your backswing length, it's effective and works well for many people. I vary my bridge length and back hand position for different type strokes and stroke lenght. That is much more advanced and effective. Many pro or very advanced players will use this technique. For simplicity your best off using what you were taught.

Rod

bluewolf
06-28-2003, 06:27 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr>Yes you can vary your backswing length, it's effective and works well for many people. I vary my bridge length and back hand position for different type strokes and stroke lenght. That is much more advanced and effective. Many pro or very advanced players will use this technique. For simplicity your best off using what you were taught.

Rod <hr /></blockquote>

Scott and what I learned here I guess have resulted in this, at least the bridge length and backswing length variation and also at randy g pool school. I do not have the subtle advanced stuff down, just put grip on cue according to bridge length. Backswing length is according to bridge length.

Scott taught me to pull my cue all the way back to my fingers so that I get a full follow. Exception, very soft, pull back about two inches. I have a softer one where I pull it back one inch or 1/2 inch. This is for the ones(and ob has very short distance like 1/4 rail to the pocket) when I only want the cb to roll an inch or so past where the ob was vs using stun or stop with harder hit.

Just learning a few things. This kind of stuff helps me because of my small arsenal of shape stuff. So far is this fine speed stuff, draw, and a little rail action stuff. Very slow progress so have to use the few tools I do have.

A complex game and people like you astound me.

bw

Fran Crimi
06-28-2003, 11:29 AM
Here's something to think about, Ralph. Have you ever seen Reyes break in 9-ball? Most players feel that if there's a weakness in his game, it's his break. It's kind of wimpy and not powerful like the other players. If you think of all the years he's playing and the level he plays at, you'd think that he could develop a better break if he wanted to.

I think he doesn't want to. I also think that a long time ago, he determined that breaking hard took something away from the softness in his hands and he didn't want his finesse game to suffer in any way, so he accepted the trade-off.


Fran

Fran Crimi
06-28-2003, 11:39 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote heater451:</font><hr> I find that VERY frustrating to deal with (needing practice, of course). . . .If I use more spin with less power for position, I usually wind up running a lot farther than I need. I have never really devoted any time to analyzing how much tip placement + stroke = spin/action--with the exception of one rail shots, going straight in, and using spin to come back 1 diamond or 2. Also, I practiced it some, for the "bar rules" shot, where you're in the kitchen, and shoot past the string w/ heavy spin, to pull the CB back to one of the corners.



===================== <hr /></blockquote>


Don't feel too badly about that, heater. Learning how to finesse balls is one of the hardest things to learn because you have to learn the art of giving up control. It's very Zen and Martial Arts - like. Once you learn how to give up control and just let it go, you'll get control.

I call it the 'paradox extroadinaire'. LOL

Fran

SpiderMan
06-28-2003, 01:54 PM
I didn't read Rod's post that way at all. What he noted was that there is almost no grip pressure for soft hits and only a "tiny tiny" increase with increasing speed. Tiny to the second power doesn't sound like much of an increase to me.

This year I've had measureable improvement in my own game since understanding and practicing some recommendations Rod provided after watching my fundamentals. Hopefully this will help make Scott Lee's job more straightforward when we meet in the fall. Just gotta get this cast off my hand ...

SpiderMan