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Qtec
06-29-2003, 10:03 AM
http://edition.cnn.com/2002/US/09/03/hatfill.lsu.fired


http://edition.cnn.com/2002/LAW/10/06/hatfill.lawsuits/index.html


Q

06-29-2003, 11:26 AM
Huh? Your links are to news articles from last year. Your subject line implies some new development related to e-mail, but I don't see it anywhere. I just checked CNN's front page and they're talking about the search of the pond near his residence being completed, with nothing of interest found.

So what exactly is your post about??? /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Qtec
06-29-2003, 12:00 PM
I know its old but the point is that he is being persecuted by the Government. Are you not presumed to be innocent till proven guilty? He was only fired because of an email. In the first article the Dean[ whatever ] lied through his teeth when he said there was no pressure applied to have the guy fired,then it turns put that there was.
The Govt .is now deciding who employs whom. [ McCarthyism ]
Q

Qtec
06-29-2003, 12:23 PM
!st article ,

He said the university placed Hatfill on administrative leave "to give us a chance to fully explore and investigate this whole issue and all the matters surrounding it."

<font color="red"> "We're confident we've acted objectively and thoughtfully and fair any this matter," the chancellor said. </font color>

Hatfill is one of about 20 to 30 people who have been under scrutiny by the FBI in its investigation of last fall's anthrax-laced letters. Five people, including two postal employees, died of anthrax.

"In taking this action, the university is making no judgment no judgment as to Dr. Hatfill's guilt or innocence regarding the FBI investigation," Emmert said in a statement released earlier


2nd ,
A Justice Department official sent an e-mail to the program director in August directing him not to use Hatfill on any Justice Department-funded programs. Hatfill was working on one such program.

eg8r
06-29-2003, 12:53 PM
[ QUOTE ]
So what exactly is your post about??? <hr /></blockquote> The point of his post is to drudge up stuff in the media that is anti-Bush or against anything the current administration is doing. He has failed to once point out any flaw within his own country or any other country in the world. It goes to show his agenda. He has failed to make any points, just ask questions. Not much to post about.

eg8r

Qtec
06-29-2003, 04:22 PM
Is asking a question not a legitimate way of starting a discussion ? As far as I can see this is normal practice .

Its GW that has got on his high horse and decided that he doesnt need the rest of the world.He is the one that has trodden on International law . He is the one [ with the UK] that has taken the law into his own hands and invaded another country on false pretences.
I think I have every right to question what America does when it affects all of us . You might be safe on your big island but we here in Europe are much more vulnerable .Ever thought about that ?
This is just one example of American justice I have brought up , another was Tulia . Yes Tulia . A subject you refuse to talk about . Easier to ignore it .
Is this an example of the the American way of life and America justice? If you accept it , you condone it.


Q

eg8r
06-29-2003, 05:17 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Is asking a question not a legitimate way of starting a discussion ? As far as I can see this is normal practice . <font color="blue"> I don't believe in your first post on this thread you ever asked a question. Actually you just gave some links for us to go read. </font color>

Its GW that has got on his high horse and decided that he doesnt need the rest of the world.He is the one that has trodden on International law . <font color="blue"> Who hasn't? </font color> He is the one [ with the UK] that has taken the law into his own hands and invaded another country on false pretences. <font color="blue"> This is a lie. Flat out lie. Saddam agreed that he had the weapons of mass destruction before. He never proved he disposed of them, so common thought amongst every other nation in the UN felt he still had them. All the nations agreed he had them. What were the false pretences? Since they have not been found yet? Is that your best argument? Maybe they have been hidden pretty well? Or moved. Syria? </font color>
I think I have every right to question what America does when it affects all of us . <font color="blue"> I don't think our tax systems affects you. I don't think our smoking laws affect you. I don't think Tulia affects you. Get off your own high horse and open your eyes. I don't think the anthrax case affects you. You have brought up a bunch of stuff that does not affect you, yet you stand behind the war in Iraq as your defense. Quite weak. </font color> You might be safe on your big island but we here in Europe are much more vulnerable .Ever thought about that ? <font color="blue"> I guess not. I guess when I am discussing all the issues with you about taxes, welfare, smoking laws etc, I just did not care how it affected you and your little country. As far as Iraq, yeah I thought about how it affected you and the rest of the world. I thought about how safe your little countries will be if a dictator/murderer like Saddam was ruling your country. We would go in and save your butts also. </font color>
This is just one example of American justice I have brought up , another was Tulia . Yes Tulia . A subject you refuse to talk about . <font color="blue"> You have also been ignorant enough to think I would talk about something I knew nothing about. Tulia is not the current administrations problem, yet you seem to pin it to them. </font color> Easier to ignore it .
Is this an example of the the American way of life and America justice? If you accept it , you condone it. <font color="blue"> An example of American justice are those that were freed in Tulia. It was a shame that they were taken in and were innocent, but I am much more happy they are free now. </font color>
<hr /></blockquote>

eg8r

highsea
06-29-2003, 05:31 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> Is asking a question not a legitimate way of starting a discussion ? As far as I can see this is normal practice .

<font color="blue"> I'm not sure that LSU did anything particularly wrong here. They were asked by the Justice Dept. do keep this individual away from sensitive projects. Since the projects were gov't funded, the gov't has the right to make the request. </font color>

Its GW that has got on his high horse and decided that he doesnt need the rest of the world.He is the one that has trodden on International law . He is the one [ with the UK] that has taken the law into his own hands and invaded another country on false pretences.

<font color="blue"> We've been over this one before, so I'll be brief. The terms of Iraq's surrender in 91, and the cease fire that resulted, were spelled out. Iraq failed to meet these terms, and suffered the consequences. They were given ample opportunity to comply with the UN resolutions. They flaunted the UN resoloutions for 12 years, played cat-and-mouse with the UN inspectors, fired on coalition aircraft almost daily, among a host of other violations. Saddam openly supported terrorism against an ally of the US. Hey, he paid the price. What do you think we should've done, look the other way? </font color>

I think I have every right to question what America does when it affects all of us . You might be safe on your big island but we here in Europe are much more vulnerable .Ever thought about that ?

<font color="blue"> Sure you have the right to question US policy. We're not afraid of answering a few questions. You say that you are more vulnerable than us. Vulnerable to what, may I ask? I assure you we have no intentions of invading Holland. </font color>

This is just one example of American justice I have brought up , another was Tulia . Yes Tulia . A subject you refuse to talk about . Easier to ignore it .

<font color="blue"> Yes, our justice system has it's flaws. In general, we try to minimize them, and make it right when something goes wrong. The Tulia defendents have been released. There are surely more people in jail that should not be there. There are also a lot of people on the streets that should be locked up. No system is perfect. We are dealing with people, and they are not always reliable. Ours system does have safeguards that do not exist in many parts of the world, however, and our citizens have rights that are not found elsewhere also. </font color>

Is this an example of the the American way of life and America justice? If you accept it , you condone it.

<font color="blue"> I'm not sure if it a good example. I think this guy was put under a lot of pressure, and it is possible that the Justice Dept. has evidence that they cannot release to the general public without harming the investigation. If he is shown to be innocent, he will likely be given his job back with back pay and be awarded a large settlement. As I said, we don't know what the investigators have on him. For them to go to his property 3 different times with search warrants, they must have something, or a judge would not have signed off on the warrants. </font color>

Q <hr /></blockquote>

-CM

Qtec
06-29-2003, 07:02 PM
Is asking a question not a legitimate way of starting a discussion ? As far as I can see this is normal practice . <font color="blue"> I don't believe in your first post on this thread you ever asked a question. Actually you just gave some links for us to go read. </font color>

Its GW that has got on his high horse and decided that he doesnt need the rest of the world.He is the one that has trodden on International law . <font color="blue"> Who hasn't? </font color>
<font color="red"> So you do accept that GW has no respect for International Law ? </font color>
He is the one [ with the UK] that has taken the law into his own hands and invaded another country on false pretences. <font color="blue"> This is a lie. Flat out lie. Saddam agreed that he had the weapons of mass destruction before. He never proved he disposed of them, so common thought amongst every other nation in the UN felt he still had them.
<font color="red"> Everybody knew he had no nuclear weapons. WMD is a GW phrase that was introduced when it became apparent that S had no nuclear weapons.</font color>
All the nations agreed he had them.
<font color="red"> No they didnt. </font color>
What were the false pretences? Since they have not been found yet? Is that your best argument?
<font color="red"> Isnt it a good one ? </font color>
Maybe they have been hidden pretty well? Or moved. Syria? </font color>
<font color="red"> Who knows? Spooky , dont you think . </font color>
I think I have every right to question what America does when it affects all of us . <font color="blue"> I don't think our tax systems affects you. I don't think our smoking laws affect you.
<font color="red"> Am I not allowed to talk about these things ? Do you hear yourself? </font color>
I don't think Tulia affects you. Get off your own high horse and open your eyes. I don't think the anthrax case affects you. You have brought up a bunch of stuff that does not affect you, yet you stand behind the war in Iraq as your defense. Quite weak.
</font color>
<font color="red"> ????</font color>

You might be safe on your big island but we here in Europe are much more vulnerable .Ever thought about that ? <font color="blue"> I guess not. I guess when I am discussing all the issues with you about taxes, welfare, smoking laws etc, I just did not care how it affected you and your little country. </font color>
<font color="red"> Touchy! </font color>
<font color="blue"> As far as Iraq, yeah I thought about how it affected you and the rest of the world. I thought about how safe your little countries will be if a dictator/murderer like Saddam was ruling your country. We would go in and save your butts also. </font color>
<font color="red"> HaHaHa</font color>
This is just one example of American justice I have brought up , another was Tulia . Yes Tulia . A subject you refuse to talk about . <font color="blue"> You have also been ignorant enough to think I would talk about something I knew nothing about. </font color>
<font color="red">You do not want to know. </font color>
Tulia is not the current administrations problem, yet you seem to pin it to them.
[color;blue] Easier to ignore it .</font color>
Is this an example of the the American way of life and America justice? If you accept it , you condone it. <font color="blue"> An example of American justice are those that were freed in Tulia. It was a shame that they were taken in and were innocent, but I am much more happy they are free now. </font color>

<font color="red"> Thats at least something I suppose. Halleluya. </font color>

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>


Q

eg8r
06-29-2003, 07:22 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Q:</font><hr> So you do accept that GW has no respect for International Law ? <hr /></blockquote> No.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote q:</font><hr> Everybody knew he had no nuclear weapons. WMD is a GW phrase that was introduced when it became apparent that S had no nuclear weapons. <blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr>
All the nations agreed he had them. quote=q
No they didnt.
<hr /></blockquote> <hr /></blockquote>
The signing of Resolution 687 is only one of many proofs that all the countries agreed he had the weapons. I guess you do not like the wording "WMD". Does it still change the fact that Saddam possesed them. Let me help you out, since you are obviously stumbling over synonyms. In the resolution you will see biological and chemical weapons mentioned. Those are the same as WMD. Nothing like a little vocab test on a sunday evening. As far as your talk about Nuclear weapons, this is about WMDs not nuclear.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote q:</font><hr> I think I have every right to question what America does when it affects all of us . <blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr>I don't think our tax systems affects you. I don't think our smoking laws affect you.
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote q:</font><hr> Am I not allowed to talk about these things ? Do you hear yourself?
<hr /></blockquote> <hr /></blockquote> <hr /></blockquote> Q you are once again stumbling with reading comprehension. You stated first that you are talking about things that affect you (being a person outside of the US). I pointed out all the topics you have discussed that do not have anything to do with you or affect you (being a person outside the US). Get your thoughts straight. Do you want to single out things that affect you or all things in general. You make the call. I am only commenting on what you wrote. Your reply suggests you did not read what you wrote and how I responded. I am getting tired of all your little twisty turns when the results are not what you bargained for.

eg8r

Qtec
06-29-2003, 07:52 PM
I'm not sure that LSU did anything particularly wrong here. They were asked by the Justice Dept. do keep this individual away from sensitive projects. Since the projects were gov't funded, the gov't has the right to make the request.

<font color="blue">On what grounds ? </font color>

We've been over this one before, so I'll be brief. The terms of Iraq's surrender in 91, and the cease fire that resulted, were spelled out. Iraq failed to meet these terms, and suffered the consequences. They were given ample opportunity to comply with the UN resolutions. They flaunted the UN resoloutions for 12 years, played cat-and-mouse with the UN inspectors, fired on coalition aircraft almost daily, among a host of other violations. Saddam openly supported terrorism against an ally of the US. Hey, he paid the price. What do you think we should've done, look the other way

<font color="blue"> If you say resolutions , I say Israel. They have Nuclear weapons . Why is this never mentioned . Nobody has ever linhed S to Al Q. He did gift money to the families of bombers áfter the Israelies decided to punish them by demolishing their houses. As far as I am aware çollective punishment is against the Geneva con. </font color>

Sure you have the right to question US policy. We're not afraid of answering a few questions. You say that you are more vulnerable than us. Vulnerable to what, may I ask? I assure you we have no intentions of invading Holland

<font color="blue"> I,m talking about terrorism . We are a much easier target. </font color>

I'm not sure if it a good example. I think this guy was put under a lot of pressure, and it is possible that the Justice Dept. has evidence that they cannot release to the general public without harming the investigation. If he is shown to be innocent, he will likely be given his job back with back pay and be awarded a large settlement. As I said, we don't know what the investigators have on him. For them to go to his property 3 different times with search warrants, they must have something, or a judge would not have signed off on the war

<font color="blue"> By the time they come to the conclusion that he is innocent, it will be impossible to find out who really did it . [ IMO the whole point ]</font color>


For them to go to his property 3 different times with search warrants, they must have something, or a judge would not have signed off on the warrants

<font color="blue"> You would think so , eh. </font color>


Cant find Osama, cant find Saddam , cant find the Anthrax terrorist, cant find WMD , the list goes on .
The CIA . What does the 'I' stand for ? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Q

rackmup
06-30-2003, 04:09 AM
Ed,

Let me give you a tidbit of life in the Netherlands and you might understand Qtec a little better:

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote The Netherlands Morning Gazette:</font><hr>The Netherlands became the first country in the world to legalize euthanasia and give homosexual marriages the same status and rights as heterosexual marriages. But that wasn’t much of a surprise considering immorality was already running amok in the country.

Pornography, for example, saturates society through late-night and weekend television and through supermarket magazine racks. Drugs are consumed and abused openly in “coffee houses.” Abortion is used as just another method of contraception.

Pool is played utilizing pool balls made of crack cocaine and leads the list of items stolen from poolhalls throughout the country. Several deaths have been reported as the end result of players attempting to "snort" pool powder cones.

While drugs and alcohol lead the Netherlands toward it's ultimately high levels of moral degradation, so does the illiterate responses, comments, slurred ramblings and incredibily low IQ's of some of the Country's residents.

Many aspire to escape the quagmire of stupidity that is becoming the norm for life in the "Neverlands" and somehow move to the United States of America where freedom reigns, BBQ tastes great and GW Bush provides the opportunity for everyone to prosper.<hr /></blockquote>

Hey...I'm not making this stuff up (well, accept maybe all but the first two paragraphs.)

Regards,

Ken

Voodoo Daddy
06-30-2003, 04:35 AM
Anthrax, I loved them...."I am the Law" just rocks!!! OH, your not talking about the 80's Metal Band...opps.

eg8r
06-30-2003, 04:48 AM
You are too funny Ken. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

Sid_Vicious
07-01-2003, 09:43 AM
I'll agree with Qtec that our justice system, especially since GWB took over has markedly degraded to something closer to McCarthy-ism and Hitler Germany. McCarth-ism of course accused(publicly convicted in effect) people merely on their affiliations. Hitler took people away with his SS squads in secrecy, without any priviledges for legal aid,,,sounds like something GWB and crew has done huh? THAT folks, is an atrocious step far back the other way. I can be whisked away by the feds and never heard from again, and our own American government willingly supports that!? Total horse crap, and a symbol that terrorism HAS changed our American beliefs,,,they get a "check" toward checkmate with that victory.

Qtec, we have some very focused conservatives here, and I personally find some of the attacks toward you concerning your usage of "point-making by asking a question", a cheap and immature style. I'll not make friends with eg8r nor several others here with this post, but ya know, to stay silent about the injustices against bonifide Americans is just as much an injustice...an injustice to my own personal self worth. We fought a war in the beginning of this country's birth, fighting for freedom from unjust persecution, won that war but now are giving that victory away, and for what? The fear of terrorism? No, it's a power play by the administration, played at a time when we are vulnerable. It all sickens me, it really does.

Now y'all can pick &amp; piece my sentences apart like you consistently do with Qtec's and attack my rhetoric, my reading skills, whatever, BUT in the end there are still red blooded Americans being persecuted, some maybe justly, and yet that one who gets wrongly persecuted nullifies all the other simply because it has been done almost totally by going against all of our American civil liberties. Y'all go ahead and continue to spar with each other with this thread and it's issues, I've said my peace and moving to other posts about other things...sid

eg8r
07-01-2003, 11:37 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Now y'all can pick &amp; piece my sentences apart like you consistently do with Qtec's <hr /></blockquote> Thank you for your permission.

[ QUOTE ]
I'll agree with Qtec that our justice system, especially since GWB took over has markedly degraded to something closer to McCarthy-ism and Hitler Germany. <hr /></blockquote> Can you give some examples???? Sure choose the one that Qtec has posted here, the big bad Ashcroft has labeled the man "a person of interest". Sorry, but what is so wrong with that. LSU decides CYA is the best course of action so they let him go. This sort of stuff has happened long before GWB. So I ask...What other instances have happened that are so peculiar that they have only ever happened while GWB was in office? If you have it in you, please explain how it has degraded our justice system.

[ QUOTE ]
I can be whisked away by the feds and never heard from again, and our own American government willingly supports that!? <hr /></blockquote> Who did this happen to recently that is so absolutely different than instances of it happening prior to GWB?

[ QUOTE ]
Qtec, we have some very focused conservatives here, and I personally find some of the attacks toward you concerning your usage of "point-making by asking a question", a cheap and immature style. <hr /></blockquote> Explain yourself a little here. What else has he offered?

[ QUOTE ]
No, it's a power play by the administration, played at a time when we are vulnerable. It all sickens me, it really does. <hr /></blockquote> Can you honestly tell me you have not been sickened by other Presidents who have reacted in a way to take advantages of vulnerable times? Is GWB the first president to act in the way you are describing, or are you having a case of casual memory loss?

[ QUOTE ]
BUT in the end there are still red blooded Americans being persecuted, some maybe justly, and yet that one who gets wrongly persecuted nullifies all the other simply because it has been done almost totally by going against all of our American civil liberties. <hr /></blockquote> You want to hear horse crap? I guess everyone that was "persecuted" justly is all awash because of one mistake. Since you brought it up, can you show an example of a person being wrongly persecuted in which the persecutors are denying "ALL" civil liberties afforded them.

This whole speech of yours comes in a post where the victim was "labeled" as a person of interest. Funny, we do this all the time in our everyday life and you find fault with it now. I guess it is GWB's fault that this guy was "labeled". I don't buy it.

Thanks for the permission to treat your post like Q's. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

Qtec
07-01-2003, 11:37 AM
Enter into the New York Times or the Washington Post, it's entering into a cathedral. Journalists -- particularly the commentators and the named journalists are the high priests of the profession, and we worship the truth, and there's this sense that in our country the truth is a quantifiable, objective deity that you can put borders around and say 'well, this is the truth and that's opinion.'"

Such observations touch upon just a few of the characteristics that make up a larger social and cultural phenomenon that acts as a kind of "default setting" for American journalism -- those foundational, philosophical and moral beliefs that are used to divine what has come to be perceived by a majority as the "truth" or "objectivity."

This "default setting" is best defined by simply stating its most common, and largely tacit, assumptions.


<font color="blue">IMO , the following reflects current Govt. attitude. Q </font color>



Democracy and capitalism are the ultimate realizations of political and economic systems. This is arguably the bedrock of American journalism. This belief commonly manifests itself in the distrust and marginalization of any person or country that is neither and a hyper-reverence for anything that is.

The United States is the rightful enforcer of global order. The fact that the U.S. wanders the globe establishing a military presence essentially anywhere it wishes, policing and disciplining small countries that commit the smallest offense, and consistently offending the sovereignty and cultural identity of host nations is never questioned on its face. It is allowable to debate "how" this process should proceed, but never its very existence or legal or political basis.

The world needs to be helped by the U.S. This assumption is quite nuanced because the real meaning is not that those under duress need emotional and material aid to get back on their feet again (charity, assistance) but that much of the world is a "failure," and because of this, the U.S. is compelled, though reluctantly, to straighten them out. So this "help" isn't the giving of food to a poor country (of course, this is done, but only along with subsidies) but instead is the overthrow of a government seen undesirable by Washington. Such a philosophy is perfectly captured by Henry Kissinger's comments regarding Chile, "I don't see why we should have to stand by and let a country go Communist due to the irresponsibility of its own people." Very rarely do corporate journalists ask, "What right do we have to be there in the first place?"

The process known innocuously as "globalization" (really, in economic terms, a kind of global and fully deregulated, free-market capitalism) is at once beneficial, in fact needed by the communities of the world, and an egalitarian system of modernization. To argue that "globalization" is a class sensitive benefactor -- enriching the rich and weakening the poor -- or to question its legitimacy or long-term economical soundness is anathema to American media. Of course, to challenge globalization is essentially to challenge capitalism.

America knows best. Regardless of who is involved, how distant the land or the people, or the actual stake the American people have in a given "crisis" or "situation," the United States government is the sole, most reputable, and most complete source of enlightenment on the subject. This assumption is highlighted by both the American media's and American people's general distrust, if not open contempt, for virtually all foreign governments and foreign media. (This is also partially caused by the overt rise in nationalism over the past two years.)

Imperialism is a thing of the past and no longer exists even in a hybridized form. This is, perhaps, the most laughable of all the assumptions that one must be so careful not to disrupt in polite conversation.
These attributes saturate current American journalism and are the reason many journalists, news agencies, and people around the world take the American media less and less seriously and strongly question its impartiality -- especially when American commentators and journalists speak so profoundly of the truth and objectivity while throwing around supposed facts from the Pentagon or State Department so carelessly.

MikeM
07-01-2003, 02:13 PM
Where did you find this crap?

MM

Qtec
07-01-2003, 02:57 PM
Cant remember . Here is the article on another site.

http://www.yellowtimes.org/article.php?sid=1446&amp;mode=thread&amp;order=0

Q