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View Full Version : EU to spend 50 Billion Euros on new Fighter Jet



highsea
07-01-2003, 11:03 AM
500 Eurofighter jets at 100Mil Euros each.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/europe/06/30/eurofighter.ap/index.html

So, Q, it seems that the US is not the only one deveolping new warplanes. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

-CM

Qtec
07-01-2003, 11:25 AM
What! They are ONLY $114 million each . That wouldnt even pay eg8r,s expense account. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Q

Kato
07-01-2003, 11:34 AM
Now we have to build a plane and a missle that can blow them up!!!!! Can't let the Greek get too strong now can we?

Kato

eg8r
07-01-2003, 11:39 AM
Resorting to humor when speechless. Wow, I have seen it done better, but "good try" is in order, I guess.

I bet GWB had something to do with it. We just need Q to come along with the reason.

eg8r

highsea
07-01-2003, 12:03 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> What! They are ONLY $114 million each . That wouldnt even pay eg8r,s expense account. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Q <hr /></blockquote>

Gee, $114M each...the most expensive JSF will only cost $40M each. 1/3 the price of the eurofighter. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

-CM

Qtec
07-01-2003, 12:04 PM
Allies to become less important as new generation of weapons enables America to strike anywhere from its own territory

by Julian Borger in Washington

The Pentagon is planning a new generation of weapons, including huge hypersonic drones and bombs dropped from space, that will allow the US to strike its enemies at lightning speed from its own territory.

Over the next 25 years, the new technology would free the US from dependence on forward bases and the cooperation of regional allies, part of the drive towards self-sufficiency spurred by the difficulties of gaining international cooperation for the invasion of Iraq.

The new weapons are being developed under a program code named FALCON (Force Application and Launch from the Continental US).

A US defense website has invited bids from contractors to develop the technology and the current edition of Jane's Defense Weekly reports that the first flight tests are scheduled to take place within three years.

According to the website run by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) the program is aimed at fulfilling "the government's vision of an ultimate prompt global reach capability (circa 2025 and beyond)".

The FALCON technology would "free the US military from reliance on forward basing to enable it to react promptly and decisively to destabilizing or threatening actions by hostile countries and terrorist organizations", according to the DARPA invitation for bids. The ultimate goal would be a "reusable hypersonic cruise vehicle (HCV) ... capable of taking off from a conventional military runway and striking targets 9,000 nautical miles distant in less than two hours".

The unmanned HCV would carry a payload of up to 12,000 lbs and could ultimately fly at speeds of up to 10 times the speed of sound, according to Daniel Goure, a military analyst at the Lexington Institute in Washington.

Propelling a warhead of that size at those speeds poses serious technological challenges and DARPA estimates it will take more than 20 years to develop.

Over the next seven years, meanwhile, the US air force and DARPA will develop a cheaper "global reach" weapons system relying on expendable rocket boosters, known as small launch vehicles (SLV) that would take a warhead into space and drop it over its target.

In US defense jargon, the warhead is known as a Common Aero Vehicle (CAV), an unpowered bomb which would be guided on to its target as it plummeted to earth at high and accelerating velocity.

The CAV could carry 1,000 lbs of explosives but at those speeds explosives may not be necessary. A simple titanium rod would be able to penetrate 70 feet of solid rock and the shock wave would have enormous destructive force. It could be used against deeply buried bunkers, the sort of target the air force is looking for new ways to attack.

Jane's Defense Weekly reported that the first CAV flight demonstration is provisionally scheduled by mid-2006, and the first SLV flight exercise would take place the next year. A test of the two systems combined would be carried out by late 2007.

A prototype demonstrating HCV technology would be tested in 2009.

SLV rockets will also give the air force a cheap and flexible means to launch military satellites at short notice, within weeks, days or even hours of a crisis developing.

The SLV-CAV combination, according to the DARPA document, "will provide a near-term (approximately 2010) operational capability for prompt global strike from Consus (the continental US) while also enabling future development of a reusable HCV for the far-term (approximately 2025)". The range of this weapon is unclear.



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<font color="blue"> Very friendly ! </font color>

Q

Wally_in_Cincy
07-01-2003, 01:15 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> Resorting to humor when speechless. Wow, I have seen it done better, but "good try" is in order, I guess.

I bet GWB had something to do with it. We just need Q to come along with the reason.

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

Those planes will use a lot of oil so Bush, Cheney, and Haliburton are behind all this probably.

eg8r
07-01-2003, 01:39 PM
Oh and it does so much more. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

eg8r
07-01-2003, 01:41 PM
Hey Q you like changing the subject? See if you can steer yourself back. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

Qtec
07-01-2003, 01:44 PM
Was there a question?
Q

eg8r
07-01-2003, 01:59 PM
Nope, no question. The thread is about the Eurofighter and the future buys. You posted something all together different about future American projects. I was just nicely asking you to stay focused and try real hard not to change the subject.

Your post (about the new American project) was in reply to my post, which was wondering how you would blame this on GWB.

eg8r

highsea
07-01-2003, 02:05 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> Oh and it does so much more. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

How do you think it will stack up to the SU-31? I saw a video clip of an SU-31 doing a max-vectored loop, and it actually was able to maintain controlled flight going backwards!

Now, *that* is a bad-ass plane!

Wait a minute, I got it wrong, it wasn't an SU-31. I have to look it up...

Ok, I found it. I was thinking of the SU-37. Here's a video clip.

http://www.safe-skies.com/su_37_flip.htm

-CM

eg8r
07-01-2003, 02:11 PM
The JSF has all the capabilities of the F-22 except top speed. Manueverability, stealth, STOVL, etc. Not to mention there are 3 variations on the same platform.

I do not believe it goes backwards. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif How stable is that and at what speed? LOL

eg8r

highsea
07-01-2003, 02:30 PM
I think it will go backwards in hover mode, like a harrier will, just a matter of pitch control.

Look at the video clip of the SU-37 in the vectored flip. That is amazing manuverablity. The SU-37 can independently vector it's nozzles also. (I know the JSF won't do this, as it is a single engine aircraft.)

Yea, it's not as fast as the F-22. But as they say, the F-22 is the "force multiplier", the JSF is the "force".

-CM

Qtec
07-01-2003, 02:38 PM
01 July 2003


The state of California, as of midnight last night, was officially broke.

The richest, most populous state in the union - by some measures the world's fifth biggest economy - is facing a budget deficit of $38bn (23bn).

Midnight was the nominal deadline for the state legislature to balance the books for the new budgetary year, which begins today. But the legislature, riven by partisan rivalries, including a vicious battle to unseat the governor just months after his re-election, never stood a chance of meeting it.






Dont worry, the Saudi,s will buy at least half of L.A and rename it,El Bushdad . /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Q

Qtec
07-01-2003, 02:48 PM
GW had nothing to do with the E.F. I would never falsely accuse GWB, thats not the kinda guy I am .

[ what about that American Immunity thing . Artcle 98 ?]



Q

highsea
07-01-2003, 02:51 PM
Here is an exerpt from an article on this plane. (emphasis mine)

<font color="blue"> The new multirole all-weather superagile fighter Su-37 with thrust vector control (TVC) represents a logical step forward in the steady implementation by the Sukhoi EDB of a development program of fourth and fifth generation of tactical aircraft from the basic Su-27 fighter for the Russian Air Force. As announced by General Designer Mikhail Simonov, the new fighter is related to "the fourth with two pluses" generation. This is the latest, although far from the last, Sukhoi's development.

The Su-37 uses the 'unstable integral triplane' layout, which, in combination with the small specific load acting on the wing, high power-to-weight ratio, integral electrical remote control system and powerplant TVC feature, ensures the aircraft superagility, increased range of controlled flight and improved takeoff and landing characteristics. The TVC feature incorporated into the aircraft flight control loop makes it possible to minimize, when required, the flight speed and perform aerobatics at speeds nearing zero without angle-of-attack limitations (hence superagility).

According to Mikhail Simonov, the aircraft has virtually no angle-of-attack limitations. It can fly flatwise to the air stream, with its tail forward, i.e., with 90 and even 180 deg angles of attack. It can locate targets with its radars and attack them with its weapons from any position. This feature is extremely important for both air combat and the evasion of enemy missile attacks.
</font color>

-CM

highsea
07-01-2003, 02:56 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> Dont worry, the Saudi,s will buy at least half of L.A and rename it,El Bushdad . /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Q <hr /></blockquote>

They better start brushing up on their spanish... /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

-CM

Qtec
07-01-2003, 03:04 PM
Thats nothin! I did 'max vectored loop 'when I got back the other night from the bar and fell over the dog .

Q

..must get some practice ...

highsea
07-01-2003, 03:25 PM
HAHA that's what you get for trying to fly backwards! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

How was your pool game?

-CM

eg8r
07-01-2003, 03:39 PM
[ QUOTE ]
The TVC feature incorporated into the aircraft flight control loop makes it possible to minimize, when required, the flight speed and perform aerobatics at speeds nearing zero without angle-of-attack limitations (hence superagility).<hr /></blockquote> The first Raptors (F-22) have had this capability since the first test plane in the 80's. TVC is also evident on the JSF. [Edit] <font color="red"> It was not the F-22 at this time, just a test plane for GD </font color>

I have not read anything special about this plane that JSF does not have. All that is built into all 3 variants of the JSF.

It is quite impressive to see the plane (F-22) fly straight up at full speed (higher than its counterparts) then make a turn at near 0 air speed. We are lucky enough to get to watch a lot of footage of the F-22 test flights.

Right now, USAF test pilots are learning how TVC will be used in combat and will be training new pilots by the end of this year (I believe).

eg8r

eg8r
07-01-2003, 03:43 PM
Yup, they are broke.

Oh yeah, changed the subject again. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

eg8r
07-01-2003, 03:44 PM
F-22 and Eurofighter are the speed demons. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Both can travel at supersonic speeds before the afterburner kicks in. /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

eg8r

eg8r
07-01-2003, 03:50 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote www.useu.be/Categories/Justice%20and%20Home%20Affairs/Sept2002ProsperICCArticle98.html:</font><hr> (http://www.useu.be/Categories/Justice%20and%20Home%20Affairs/Sept2002ProsperICCArticle98.html:</font><hr>) QUESTION: But you are trying to undermine the Treaty?

AMBASSADOR PROSPER: No, were not. What were doing is were detaching ourselves from the process. The President made it clear when we made our decision back in, on May 6 of last year, that we are not waging a war against the court. We are taking a position of principle. We disagree with the system, with the specific terms of the court regarding its jurisdiction. We believe that the court is a noble idea but its just flawed in its implementation. Therefore, we respect the rights of states to be a party to the court, we just ask that they respect our right NOT to be a party to the court and we decide to take this (inaudible) divorce and detach ourselves from the process so its not a source of tension or conflict between the United States and the Court and the United States and its allies who are parties to the court.
<hr /></blockquote>

Oh yeah, what does this have to do with the Eurofighter.

eg8r

Qtec
07-01-2003, 04:12 PM
Bloody awful. I won the the 8b , playing with a snooker cue in race to 10. It was 9-8 and the table was open . I,m just about to play and the owner starts moaning . He insists I play with a pool cue . I didnt argue. No point .He hands me a cue that had at least a 13mm tip. The other was 10mm. It looked like a broom with a tip on it .

I wasnt going to give him the satisfation of putting me ff my stroke.

The whole bar was watching at this point . With the owner standing right at the table , I continue to play . My friend offers his cue , but I refuse . I am determined to clear up . All goes well till the last 2 balls .Position.


START(
%Ah6D5%HL6P2%JI9P3%KG7V1%L\1K8%MM7Q4%NQ1W6%OE5E9%P `0I0%Qu1A0
%RJ9X5%SZ5A6%Ug3D4%Vg8D9%Wf7E1%X`6H7%YP0Z8%Zf4C4%[[3C4%\M5O5
%]M2Y4%^O1[4%_s2C6%`o8C9%ai4D8%bK9Q9%cK9T0%dK9W6
)END


The 8 only goes in the sidepocket C . With the rest , I draw back to position B and make the 8 . Considering the circumstances , it wasnt a bad shot.

The rest of the play was nothing special. I was lucky to get even . I must say tho that in the end I did play a couple of good racks . Mostly I missed position .
It was a laugh . Except for thr dog . I think I,m going to paint him so that he glows in the dark.


Q

highsea
07-01-2003, 04:25 PM
I wonder which plane will be more maneuverable in near zero aerobatic conditions. I can see an advantage to having two engines (F-22) if the TVC is differential, because you could use the nozzles separately to control roll and yaw.

Does the JSF have wing ducts for roll control at slow speeds? I haven't looked at the design in much detail. I know it has the big center fan.

I'd like to see some of those F-22 videos. That's a bad a$$ plane too.

-CM

highsea
07-01-2003, 04:33 PM
That was a great shot on the one to get position on the 8, and a tough cut on the 8 as well. Good shooting.

You could put a clapper on your dog with a shock collar, then when you get home you could just clap your hands and listen for the yelp. hehe (JK, dog lovers, don't start flaming me!)

-CM

eg8r
07-01-2003, 07:39 PM
The fan in the center is for lift. It is only on the STOVL variant. The other two hold additional fuel. From what I understand, the F-22 is far superior in all aspects, the biggest problem is the price tag. Plus LM is WAYYYYYYY over budget and struggling the keep the original buy #'s.

I am not positive about this, however, I believe the TVC is controlled by the flaps on all four wings.

Without bias, I still believe the F-22 is the baddest plane out there. It is the fastest (Euro is close but no one has ever seen top speed of the F-22 and I think the Euro has shown most of all it has), highest level of manueverability/agility whatever you wanna call it, and the kewlest thing....it is STEALTH. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

Qtec
07-02-2003, 12:38 AM
[ QUOTE ]
and the kewlest thing....it is STEALTH <hr /></blockquote>

...meaning it doesnt fly in the rain. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

STEALth.

Q

highsea
07-02-2003, 12:50 AM
HA. It doesn't have to fly in the rain. It can fly above the rain and still hit whatever it shoots at!

The first thing the bad guys will hear is the bomb going off. They'll never see or hear the plane.

-CM

eg8r
07-02-2003, 09:32 AM
[ QUOTE ]
meaning it doesnt fly in the rain.<hr /></blockquote> I am sure you are joking, but if not, then you are chatting about something you know nothing about. Which would make you the same as another poster here on the board.

The plane is full stealth, and it will fly in all weather conditions (provided we are not talking about extremes like a hurricane). The F-22 has finished all weather testing and has passed 100%. The JSF will go through the same in 3 to 5 years.

eg8r