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bluewolf
07-05-2003, 07:24 AM
Been practicing my stroke and scott says I have improved on that. Will continue practicing that to keep the improvement I currently have and hope that it will keep getting better.

Have an idea I wanted to run by experienced people to see what you think?

You know those short easy ones that even good people miss and it takes down their game?

Would it be a good idea to practice a lot on those short easy cuts so I wont miss something easy in a match?

Any other ideas for practice for a person like me without much table time but wants to get better would be appreciated. I practice only 1-2 hours a day so would be like to be practicing things that will be of maximum benefit.

Thanks in advance. Sorry if this is redundant.

Laura

eg8r
07-05-2003, 07:32 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Would it be a good idea to practice a lot on those short easy cuts so I wont miss something easy in a match?

Any other ideas for practice for a person like me without much table time but wants to get better would be appreciated. I practice only 1-2 hours a day so would be like to be practicing things that will be of maximum benefit. <hr /></blockquote> What did Scott suggest you do when you asked him these same questions? Surely you ask him while he was there.

eg8r

07-05-2003, 08:13 AM
Less talk more shooting. That is the path to SL3.

I is also an freelance riter and can rite lots if am in mood. Usualy lik to talk lots bout poul,am geting better,with good strok from perfect practice makes perfect stroke.

07-05-2003, 08:25 AM
I would suggest making sure that your practice sessions are focused. Practice with a plan. Know what shots you want to be successful at and work them into your routine.

bolo
07-05-2003, 10:01 AM
Do you have a notebook that you keep on your practice sessions? It is a good idea to make notes to yourself and do it in a structured way. It may sound silly but I saw a guy in the poolroom take his game from nothing to an amazing level for the amount he had time to play, through carefully structured practice. I can't tell you how to do it, that is up to you, or for an experienced teacher to advise. I just know it can be done. If you practice right and combine that with competitive experience, you may shock yourself with the amount you can improve in a short period of time. It does take a lot of years to really play the game at a high level but for the average player I believe big improvements can be made quickly if they really have the desire. I would be interested to hear what Fran or Scott would have to say, have they had students make big improvements, and baring natural talent, how was it done.

Wally_in_Cincy
07-05-2003, 10:32 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr>

...You know those short easy ones that even good people miss and it takes down their game?

<font color="blue">"Good" players do not miss those. If you are missing them, yes you should practice them. </font color>

...Thanks in advance. ...

<font color="blue">You're welcome </font color>

<font color="red">Wally~~not an expert </font color>
<hr /></blockquote>

bolo
07-05-2003, 10:33 AM
You are right, Good players don't miss those, that is why they are good players.

tateuts
07-05-2003, 11:30 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr>
You know those short easy ones that even good people miss and it takes down their game? <hr /></blockquote>

Usually when you see a good player miss what appears to be a relatively easy shot, it's because they're trying to do something "cute" with the cue ball, or they just got sloppy because the shot was easy, or their mind wasn't on the shot because they were still mentally cycling through their options and not focused on the shot at hand. It happens to all of us.

I am not an instructor, but my advice to any beginning player is to first practice, learn, and play straight pool (14.1 continuous) until you have a pretty good feel for all the short shots and cue ball shape.

I like 14.1 for many reasons besides the fact that it is a good all-around game. The main reason I liked it for myself was simple: I got instant feedback on my progress. I remember the first time I ran 10 balls, the first time I ran 20 balls, the first time I ran 50 balls, and most of my higher runs. These are like a "report card".

Your goal in straight pool is very simple. Keep making balls and string together as many as you can. Your game will mature on it's own as you learn how to string together higher runs.

Chris

Voodoo Daddy
07-05-2003, 11:50 AM
Remember...the difference between a player and a CHAMPION is a player with shoot a shot until he can make it...a CHAMPION will shoot it until he cant miss it. Take that for all its worth

heater451
07-05-2003, 12:28 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote tateuts:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr>
You know those short easy ones that even good people miss and it takes down their game? <hr /></blockquote>

Usually when you see a good player miss what appears to be a relatively easy shot, it's because they're trying to do something "cute" with the cue ball, or they just got sloppy because the shot was easy, or their mind wasn't on the shot because they were still mentally cycling through their options and not focused on the shot at hand. It happens to all of us
Chris <hr /></blockquote>I think that's the core of it. . . .

If the shot truly is "easy", but "good people miss" them, then Chris (tateuts) is right. The shooter is probably trying something overly complicated for position, or is taking the shot for granted. In actuality, they can be the same issue--the added complication for position may not be that complicated, but if the shot is already a 'gimme', then it's more likely to be missed.

Anyway, in regards to practicing--it can never hurt to practice the shot, but realize that practicing focus might be more helpful for these type of shots, especially when you add the pressure of competition. If you shoot methodically, then you should take as much time for an "easy" shot, that you would a more difficult one--don't break your rhythm,if possible. And, if you choose to complicate the shot, by working out a pinpoint position, then don't overlook the importance of making the "easy" shot, on the way to that position.

BTW, this passed Tues-night during league, I rushed the execution of a few shots--which I noted that I rushed ("jumped up" on one for sure. . .). I even said something to scorekeeper about it, and he agreed that I rushed. Ironically enough, however, he did the same thing on a couple of shots during his match! It happens.

One more thing, the other guy is a good player (TAP 5 hcp), with a medium-slow speed of play, is somewhere in his late 50s or early 60s, and I'm sure has been playing at least 20-30 yrs of his life. I mention this to back up my point about maintaining focus, because even well-seasoned players may suffer lapses in concentration, which causes missed (easy) shots.




========================

TomBrooklyn
07-05-2003, 01:52 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr> Any other ideas for practice for a person like me (that) wants to get better would be appreciated. <hr /></blockquote>How about increasing the time you compete versus practicing alone?

Sometimes I like to practice alone and sometimes I would rather play an opponent.

In practice, I can get more shots in or can work on a particular shot or skill or fundamental without needing to be concerned about interuptions, losing my turn or the effect of a miss on a game. I can improve my stroke, shotmaking, and position game faster in practice than in competition. Practicing is also an introspective activity. It is performed only for my own benefit. That is good sometimes. One is taking care of themselves with that. However, I can only practice so much before it becomes boring. At that point I lose intensity in my focus, so I end my practice sessions then.

Sometimes I prefer to compete. Competing ups the intensity. It is a comprehensive test after the study period, requiring one to apply all of what one learned in practice with the excitement of victory or the disappointment of defeat at stake. One can no longer fully control the situation. One has to adapt to the unpredictable situations the opponent creates. This often creates situations beyond what one might have considered in practice. It coldly displays the relative strengths and weaknesses in our game, highlighting what areas to concentrate our future practice sessions on. It provides motivation to practice. It also a social activity versus a solitary one. Sometimes I rather be socializing than meditatively practicing.

League play is competition, but only partly so. It is mostly about socializing. One spends more time rooting on their teammates and chit-chatting than playing, although one can learn from watching others play if one is concentrating fully on their game.

The ratio a person likes to practice versus compete will vary with each person. For me it is varies from about 1:1 to 3:1. What is the ratio of your practice time to competing time? I'd guess if it's much more than 3:1 you might benefit from increasing the amount of competition time. Since you have your own table, you could invite friends that you meet at the pool hall that you like to play to come over to your house for play. How convienent and no table time costs. Maybe they'll bring some refreshments sometimes since they are saving the table costs too.

=Tom

pooltchr
07-05-2003, 03:49 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr>

Any other ideas for practice for a person like me without much table time but wants to get better would be appreciated.
Laura <hr /></blockquote>
I suspect if you asked Scott this question when he was there, one of the suggestions would be having a consistant pre shot routine on EVERY shot, especially the short "easy" ones. Treat every shot the same from beginning to end, and you will get much more consistant results.

highsea
07-05-2003, 04:17 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr> Would it be a good idea to practice a lot on those short easy cuts so I wont miss something easy in a match?

Any other ideas for practice for a person like me without much table time but wants to get better would be appreciated. I practice only 1-2 hours a day so would be like to be practicing things that will be of maximum benefit. <hr /></blockquote> What did Scott suggest you do when you asked him these same questions? Surely you ask him while he was there.

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

Someone tell me I'm not really in the twilight zone.

Laura, you just had a session with Scott Lee TWO days ago!

I'm sorry, but why in the h*ll are you asking the board what you should be practicing?

Didn't he tell you what you should be practicing?

-CM &lt;~~~speechless. It took me 5 minutes to come up with these 4 sentences. My head is spinning around......gonna wig out....need...valium...

highsea
07-05-2003, 04:22 PM
Scott, You must have the patience of Job.

-CM

highsea
07-05-2003, 04:41 PM
Apologies to the board. I'm better now...

Tomorrow's just a pill away....

-CM &lt;~~~gonna go play some pool now.

rackmup
07-05-2003, 04:46 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr>Been practicing my stroke and Scott says I have improved on that. Will continue practicing that to keep the improvement I currently have and hope that it will keep getting better.
<font color="red">This is a good idea. Remember the old adage: "Practice makes Perfect.</font color>

Have an idea I wanted to run by experienced people to see what you think?
<font color="red">Uh-Oh...Should have quit while you were ahead.</font color>

You know those short easy ones that even good people miss and it takes down their game?
<font color="red">No, but please...continue.</font color>

Would it be a good idea to practice a lot on those short easy cuts so I wont miss something easy in a match?
<font color="red">No. Absolutely not. Practice will only help you in the areas of demonstrated weakness. Of course, if it is your desire to make the majority of those "short easy cuts", then practice will help you.</font color>


Any other ideas for practice for a person like me without much table time but wants to get better would be appreciated.
<font color="red">Off the top of my head...more table time.</font color>

I practice only 1-2 hours a day so would be like to be practicing things that will be of maximum benefit.
<font color="red">Jeez woman! A lot of us would kill to have what you call "not much table time."</font color>

Thanks in advance.
<font color="red">Thanks is appreciated but a warning would be better.</font color>

Sorry if this is redundant.
<font color="red">Absolutely not. Repeat after me:
"Sorry if this is redundant."
"Sorry if this is redundant."
"Sorry if this is redundant."</font color>

Regards,

Ken (just teasin' /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif)

Laura<hr /></blockquote>

Billy
07-05-2003, 05:00 PM
more meaningful pool, less meaningful posting

there's no substitute for actual play

imo

bluewolf
07-06-2003, 05:59 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bolo:</font><hr> Do you have a notebook that you keep on your practice sessions? It is a good idea to make notes to yourself and do it in a structured way. It may sound silly but I saw a guy in the poolroom take his game from nothing to an amazing level for the amount he had time to play, through carefully structured practice. <hr /></blockquote>

Just wanted to say thankyou very much for your notebook idea. I will do that.

bw

bluewolf
07-06-2003, 06:22 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote highsea:</font><hr> What did Scott suggest you do when you asked him these same questions? Surely you ask him while he was there.

Laura, you just had a session with Scott Lee TWO days ago!

I'm sorry, but why in the h*ll are you asking the board what you should be practicing?

Didn't he tell you what you should be practicing?

-CM &lt;~~~speechless. It took me 5 minutes to come up with these 4 sentences. My head is spinning around......gonna wig out....need...valium... <hr /></blockquote>

Lots of good suggestions, than in typical ccb fashion, things gone 'south'. Some of you think it is fun to take potshots at me, but I can take that.

What about the new people who are reading? Lots of them have totally shut up. Are you guys trying to drive them off? Use your brains, what message are you sending them, trying to send them?

No matter what I hear here, I will be going nowhere. If I get two good suggestions and x insults, I have still gotten something. But the new people here, some of them are not so resilient.

BTW, I am 99% sure that scott would tell me to get knowlege from whereever I can get it. And yes, scott gave me drills for improving my draw and some stuff on position. I will be able to get this better when I get his tape.

In the meantime, I am going to practice. Just asking for ideas.

Is your enjoyment of taking digs at me so great that you you have forgotten, do not care about the sl3,sl4 new people here, who are hoping to get knowlege? How can they read your mind, and know or not know whether they would get this same treatment?

Once again, thanks for all sincere suggestions. And Tom b, your suggestion of more competition was superb and well noted, taken to the bank and a done deal. Thanks friend.

Laura

OnePocketChamp
07-06-2003, 07:00 AM
I believe it would be a waste of practice time to focus alot on the short "no brainer" easy shots. The reason, in my opinion, for missing these shots is a breakdown in focus or shot conscientration. For this reason, you should establish a reoccurring pre-shot routine and use this routine <font color="red"> for every shot you shoot during practice and in a real match. </font color> Get very comfortable with this routine and it will improve your game.

bluewolf
07-06-2003, 07:50 AM
START(
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%KJ7P7%LJ7N2%MK7Q3%NJ7Q9%OJ7M0%Po1I3%Wo4E7%Xo5I0%[t2C4%\p2D8
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http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/9egg/

This is an easy short shot. I can get this high percent with centerball or inside english. I rarely can pot this with outside english. This is one shot I am working on, to be able to get this in with oe.

Based in part on scotts drills, I am working on making all short shots with cb,ie, oe, and also top, bottom, center with these. To pot a ball only with cb or oe is not enough to achieve good cueball control.I learned this from reading here from very good players. So this is something I am trying to learn too.

Also, this teaches me where the cb goes after the pot. Scott also encouraged me to learn based on the tangent line, where the ball should go on all types of hits, so that I can tell if I hit the cb correctly.

Scott is pushing me to better pool and especially better shape and I want to practice all of that.It is not potting that separates levels of players, but imo more so shape.

Other than taking a 80-90% shot to a 90+% shot,scott is also working with me on predicting and achieving cueball controll with simple drills.

Might not have worded my previous post well, but figure all suggestions from a player who is advanced above me have merit.

Laura

eg8r
07-06-2003, 09:28 AM
I think any newbies reading the board can get all the information they want. First off, they should start with a simple search. This would probably help you out also.

[ QUOTE ]
BTW, I am 99% sure that scott would tell me to get knowlege from whereever I can get it. And yes, scott gave me drills for improving my draw and some stuff on position. I will be able to get this better when I get his tape.

In the meantime, I am going to practice. Just asking for ideas. <hr /></blockquote> I will ask again, what ideas did Scott give you while he was there? Surely you asked him these types of questions while he was there. I guess you just did not ask these questions.

eg8r

rackmup
07-06-2003, 09:45 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr> What about the new people who are reading? Lots of them have totally shut up. Are you guys trying to drive them off? Use your brains, what message are you sending them, trying to send them?
<hr /></blockquote>

You can look at this two ways. First, you can look at it the way Laura is looking at it; that we are a bunch of scary, mean people who do nothing but goad each other, scaring off new posters or:

Let's say the CCB Forum is a Pool Hall. A guy who has just taken up the game saunters in with a couple of his newbie buddies and begin to bang balls.

On the table next to them are...let's say, myself, eg8r, Kato and OPC. The woofing is thick but we know it's all in good fun. The newbies are at first intimidated (calling me an "a**hole" and the other three "loud" in a tone only they can hear.)

But, after coming into the pool room for the next five straight days and seeing us there each day, they must surmize we are "regulars" and "that is just the way those guys are."

It's no different here. If a new poster walks into the middle of some of our serious bantering and immediately draws the wrong conclusion, well...that's their bad.

How many times has a new poster introduced him or herself like this:

"Hi...I'm new here but have been lurking for several months and I'd like to ask a question..."

They rarely form an immediate "bad opinion" as they have actually been here for awhile, learned about the different personalities and come to accept them. They don't have to like them but at least they know the "dominant" personalities on the board.

If the remarks made here "hurt" someone, one has to question how they react in a typical pool hall (excluding the "All-Christian-Worship-Service-Before-Every-Tournament-No-Smoking-No-Alcohol-No-Woofing-Zen-Pool-Hall) where the competitive, opinionated banter is as bad or perhaps even worse than it gets here.

Thin Skin? Give up pool and take up quilting. I've never heard any woofing at any of the quilting bees I've attended.

Regards,

Ken (What? You didn't know I could quilt? Let me tell you about the time "Grandma Strickland" and I went toe-to-toe in the US pen Quilting Championship...)

Steve Lipsky
07-06-2003, 11:18 AM
Laura, re the shot you described in your previous post, where you were having trouble playing this with outside english: Have you spent any amount of time practicing this shot?

10 minutes of intelligent practice should solve this. Where is the object ball hitting? I'm assuming you are undercutting it?

Have you ever intentionally aimed at a ball (one you have trouble with) in a spot where your mind thought was wrong? It seems as though your mind doesn't "see" this shot correctly; you must practice it by overcutting it to the point where you are positive you will miss it. It will go in, you will be flabbergasted, and you have begun the process of retraining your aim on that shot.

I think this is what Fran was referring to in her Life Before CCB thread. Have you played this shot 200 times before asking this question? I can't see that you have, and are still missing it, but I will take your word if you tell me it is so.

- Steve

Qtec
07-06-2003, 11:22 AM
Laura , youre right . I,ve heard that the guy doesnt know what end of a cue he should chalk ! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Hang in there ,

Q

bluewolf
07-06-2003, 11:47 AM
Steve,

When I was fist beginning pool, I was under the very false opinion that I should be able to get all the short ones in, they were all easy. I did not realize or look at cuts. It was short=easy, long=hard. Sounds stupid. I kept missing this one and beating myself up over it.

After a couple of more months and a little better I guess at pool, I started practicing it again, realizing that it was not as easy as some of the other short ones, this time without beating myself up. I got it in with ie first and tried it the other ways but at first could only get it in that way. My sl7 husband gave me a logical reason for this and I kept practicing. Then next came centerball. Still not good at oe, but if someone says I just need to discover for myself the right overcut spot, I will find it.

Dont know how many times I have tried this shot. Dont count.The shot itself, lots of time. the oe part, time over days. Getting it more often but it is definately harder for me than cb or ie. Eventually it wont be, but i still wonder why, the physics.I am just stubborn and keep doing it still like to know why a thing is so, even if I have to figure that out for myself.

I do very much believe in practice, but logical explanations of why one way is harder, or the whys, the physics, benefit from those too. This is how it is. Once I have the shot, I have gone through all the stages of difficulty. In the end, I will not just have the shot, I will have the why and the physics.

I feel that I have my answer. Find the overcut spot.That is fine for now. Once I have the shot, I will findout the why. Thanks

Laura

highsea
07-06-2003, 01:00 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> Laura , youre right . I,ve heard that the guy doesnt know what end of a cue he should chalk ! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Hang in there ,
Q <hr /></blockquote>

I have a "Bonzai" cue. It doesn't use chalk. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

-CM

highsea
07-06-2003, 02:05 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr>Lots of good suggestions, than in typical ccb fashion, things gone 'south'. Some of you think it is fun to take potshots at me, but I can take that.

What about the new people who are reading? Lots of them have totally shut up. Are you guys trying to drive them off? Use your brains, what message are you sending them, trying to send them?

No matter what I hear here, I will be going nowhere. If I get two good suggestions and x insults, I have still gotten something. But the new people here, some of them are not so resilient.

BTW, I am 99% sure that scott would tell me to get knowlege from whereever I can get it. And yes, scott gave me drills for improving my draw and some stuff on position. I will be able to get this better when I get his tape.

In the meantime, I am going to practice. Just asking for ideas.

Is your enjoyment of taking digs at me so great that you you have forgotten, do not care about the sl3,sl4 new people here, who are hoping to get knowlege? How can they read your mind, and know or not know whether they would get this same treatment?

Once again, thanks for all sincere suggestions. And Tom b, your suggestion of more competition was superb and well noted, taken to the bank and a done deal. Thanks friend.

Laura <hr /></blockquote>

Laura, I am sorry I hurt your feelings. I sincerely doubt my post drove away any new people.

My point was simply this. You had a lesson two days before you posted your request for practice advice from experts.

You asked if you should be practicing a certain shot, and then made a general request for things to practice to improve your game.

The best possible advice anyone can give you, is for you to work on the things Scott suggested during your session. He was there, he watched you shoot, he's a pro. His advice is what you should be focusing on right now.

-CM