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View Full Version : UPA have done it again!



poolgoogin
07-06-2003, 06:45 AM
First things first,Tony Robles and Buddy Hall have declined invites to Cardiff.So those spots should go to the next USA players on the UPA points list.John Ditoro at 29 and Teddy Garrahan at 44 have been given the invites.
I wonder if the following players were asked to go,Frankie Hernandez at number 30,Scott Frost at 34,Grady Matthews at 35,George Sansouci at 43 and others in between that I haven't mentioned.
If they were all asked and turned it down,then that is fair.If not then the tour is corrupt.If anyone knows the answer please let me know.
Also there is a rumor in Cardiff that the number one player on the UPA tour Corey Deuel has been banned from the UPA and also NOT been given an invite.
What is going on with the UPA?
If anyone can shed some light on this matter please reply,because every player in the qualifiers here at Cardiff is confused.
Thank you.

Voodoo Daddy
07-06-2003, 09:31 AM
John DiToro got a spot? He taught me 9-Ball 21 years ago, we traveled together for years...great shotmaker. I wanna get down on him as a darkhorse!! I always said he is one of the best players on the planet with a full-time job!!! GOOOOOOOOOO JOHN /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Kato
07-06-2003, 12:48 PM
You might wanna call John and see if it's for real. He would know right?

Kato

Alfie
07-06-2003, 03:33 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote poolgoogin:</font><hr> If anyone can shed some light on this matter please reply,because every player in the qualifiers here at Cardiff is confused.<hr /></blockquote>I doubt this is true. What difference would it make to them?

You're just being a fecal matter stirrer, IMO.

poolgoogin
07-07-2003, 05:28 AM
Further update for anyone that cares about men's professional pool.John Ditoro has declined his invitation and it now goes to the amazingly talented and household name Bill Ferguson the number 47th ranked player on the UPA tour.

Voodoo Daddy
07-07-2003, 05:40 AM
"Boston" Bill Ferguson is another Florida Tour perenial. He can play...household name or not!!

bolo
07-07-2003, 10:21 AM
How does this thing work. Lets be honest, I know and have played Bill Ferguson, he only plays about my speed. I don't think he ever even won a Fla Tour tournament. There are a zillion better players that could be sent to represent the US, this is silly. No offense to Mr. Ferguson, he is a nice guy, but really. Ditoro is the same deal, good local player, but are they kidding. Send some top players, like I said I don't know how it works.

Steve Lipsky
07-07-2003, 10:36 AM
I understand some of the complaints about who's not going, but let's try to keep talk of the players that are going in a respectful tone.

I don't know Bill Ferguson or John Ditoro (although he declined the invite), but I don't think they deserve to see their names used as punchlines. Those who received the later invites are now looking to do themselves, their poolrooms, and their country proud. Let's root them on and let that be that.

It's cool to ask about where the other players are, but let's be respectful about it.

- Steve

Nostroke
07-07-2003, 10:49 AM
The word is that Corey wont sign that UPA contract that has been spoken of here before. i suppose some of the others that have been bypassed may not have signed it as well. Does anyone know for sure?

Ken
07-07-2003, 11:31 AM
I don't know about Corey but the "revised" contract is being circulated along with a reminder that "dues are now past due".

There seems to be nothing very objectionable about the contract. There is no "boycott" provision just a requirement that players not attend an event in "conflict with the UPA". Exactly how that is defined I don't know but the usual meaning of that phrase would mean a conflict involving dates. The Dragon may define that differently, however. It's possible that any promoter who doesn't sign up for sanctioning would be "in conflict with the UPA". Who knows?

It seems to be a step in the right direction but is still somewhat unclear. Maybe that's what their "General Counsel" had in mind. I, for one, have decided not to "reap the benefits of being a UPA member".
KenCT

Irish
07-07-2003, 01:11 PM
Charlie of course wont come here and make a post to clear up truely important stuff, he is busy spamming boards with his pool school website advertising. The UPA is a joke, someone please create a "real" North American/Worldwide pool association and tour that know what they are doing.

cueball1950
07-07-2003, 09:17 PM
As i have stated in another post. Mr Williams is much to busy to come here personally and answer posts directed towards him and about the UPA. So maybe Mr Alvarez, who answers his personal emails can come here and explain the selection process for Cardiff Mr Williams has used. We as a whole have direcred several questions to Mr Williams and have yet to see any relevant replies from him . Maybe if he came here and answered a few he would not get bashed so much. So Mr Williams, Please come here and answer some simple questions without hiding behind the saying. "It is up to the Board" or "it is the Boards policy" or whatever and stop hiding behind Mr Alvarez and answer the questions YOURSELF. Point blank. Do the right thing. You want people to respect you and the UPA, yet you cannot take the time to answer questions posed to you..nuff said.............................mike

Harold Acosta
07-07-2003, 11:42 PM
I don't think that Frankie would have turned the invite down, but then I don't know that for sure.

I found this at the UPA website but didn't do much other research. Maybe this could explain the decision of the UPA board.
__________________________________________________ _______

POINT SYSTEM BREAKDOWN

The Calendar Year Ranking determines who gets invited to invitational events. For example, when the WPA asks for the top 10 US players, we use the Calendar Year Rankings which are current for the players who are doing well that current year, while the seeding rankings may not accurately show who is performing well. This will also determine accurately the Player of the Year.

Many of the international events asks for rankings 90 days prior. In the event that the calendar year rankings are only 1 to 2 events into the year, we shall go by the Seeding Rankings. If there are at least 3 UPA events prior, we shall use the Calendar Year Rankings.
__________________________________________________ ________

In my opinion, Charlie Williams is doing his best to get the UPA running as a Pro Tour should. It is not easy dealing with players, sponsors, public opinion, sanctioning, tour schedules, seedings, book-keeping, etc., but someone has to do the job. I know, I'm the Puerto Rico Federation President and we are already running into some walls.

Your post should have been toned down a little, specially your words about the Tour being corrupt. Charlie at least came forward with organizing another Pro Tour. He should have some credit for that.

Just my honest opinion.

Harold Acosta

Irish
07-08-2003, 12:26 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Harold Acosta:</font><hr> I don't think that Frankie would have turned the invite down, but then I don't know that for sure.

I found this at the UPA website but didn't do much other research. Maybe this could explain the decision of the UPA board.
__________________________________________________ _______

POINT SYSTEM BREAKDOWN

The Calendar Year Ranking determines who gets invited to invitational events. For example, when the WPA asks for the top 10 US players, we use the Calendar Year Rankings which are current for the players who are doing well that current year, while the seeding rankings may not accurately show who is performing well. This will also determine accurately the Player of the Year.

Many of the international events asks for rankings 90 days prior. In the event that the calendar year rankings are only 1 to 2 events into the year, we shall go by the Seeding Rankings. If there are at least 3 UPA events prior, we shall use the Calendar Year Rankings.
__________________________________________________ ________

In my opinion, Charlie Williams is doing his best to get the UPA running as a Pro Tour should. It is not easy dealing with players, sponsors, public opinion, sanctioning, tour schedules, seedings, book-keeping, etc., but someone has to do the job. I know, I'm the Puerto Rico Federation President and we are already running into some walls.

Your post should have been toned down a little, specially your words about the Tour being corrupt. Charlie at least came forward with organizing another Pro Tour. He should have some credit for that.

Just my honest opinion.

Harold Acosta
<hr /></blockquote>

Yeah that must be it, look at this powerhouse season by Ditoro

http://www.azbilliards.com/thepros/2000showplayer2003.cfm?playernum=82

But not too worry he declined and now the world has to face this animal who is chewing up the pro scene.

http://www.azbilliards.com/thepros/2000showplayer2003.cfm?playernum=365

$100 already this year. God forbid someone has to face him in the first round, almost not fair.

Looks like good pics to me. Must be tough being Charlie, struggleing through a lobotomy and having to run a pro tour at the same time! Seriously it may be tough running a tour but I doubt you are working that hard if you are comming up with this kind of crap, either you suck at what you do or you are corrupt as hell. Keep up the shitty work Mr. Williams.

PS: if ole Bill there falls through I know this barber who hangs out at my local pub, he shoots real good, even with a bar stick. He runs 4 or 5 balls quite consistently in 8-ball, I have even seen him run 2 tables out from the break since I have known him! He would be an awesome choice for ya for the WPC in Cardiff!

George Comerford
07-08-2003, 05:23 AM
IMHO.......The UPA is a JOKE. To much politics not enough hustle to make it work. Bad choices abound in every news bit I see related to the UPA. I`ve talked to several pro`s to see what they think about the UPA and they pretty much all say the same thing "It`s going to get worse before it gets better". I think I`ve seen enough of what`s going on to know that for the people involved in running the UPA it`s all about 2 things, dictator type control and money.
I totally believe that men`s pool will not go anywhere without a strong governing body. Unfortunately from what I`ve seen and heard the UPA isn`t the answer. For anyone who thinks men`s pool is in the dark ages right now I say to you "You ain`t seen nothing yet".

George

Steve Lipsky
07-08-2003, 07:43 AM
Just a note about AZBilliards... they don't post (or, to be more accurate, don't have access to) all tournament winnings. The tri-state tour in the northeast is never listed, so maybe others aren't either.

Additionally, judging a player's speed by his listed winnings can be deceiving. Examples of players who haven't exactly burned it up on the AZ Winnings List are Jason Kirkwood, Steve Knight, and Amar Kang - and that's just on the "K" page. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

- Steve

Irish
07-08-2003, 01:50 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Steve Lipsky:</font><hr> Just a note about AZBilliards... they don't post (or, to be more accurate, don't have access to) all tournament winnings. The tri-state tour in the northeast is never listed, so maybe others aren't either.

Additionally, judging a player's speed by his listed winnings can be deceiving. Examples of players who haven't exactly burned it up on the AZ Winnings List are Jason Kirkwood, Steve Knight, and Amar Kang - and that's just on the "K" page. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

- Steve <hr /></blockquote>

Yeah but those UPA tournaments and UPA sanctioned events should be listed or else Charlie is not doing his job. The AZbilliards site just leaves a person even more dumbfounded on how these two were invited to go to Cardiff. Where are all the UPA events? This is a governing body that has brought next to nothing to the game in the way of their own tournaments. They do nothing but sanction events and try to destroy other events. They should quit worrying about what other people are doing and worry about putting on some tournaments of their own. Honestly the UPA is completely pointless at this point in time. I hope they are gone by this time next year so some truely good tour/governing body that gets things done in a fair manner and can move this sport ahead can come along.

Keith McCready
07-08-2003, 05:55 PM
Tournament play is tough, but head-to-head combat with Amar is a hard nut to crack. Winnings don't necessarily reflect a shooter's talent. Can't tell you how many times I end up the bride's maid.

Earthquake

poolgoogin
07-09-2003, 12:52 PM
A further update from Cardiff.Today we are told that Corey Deuel signed a revised UPA contract and is now playing.This is the word going around the qualifiers.
If this is the case then that brings up the question about the other players that the UPA failed to invite to Cardiff because they would not sign the original contract.Would they also be allowed to sign a revised contract and also be eligible for Cardiff.
This would only seem fair,how can they do it for Corey and not for their other members.That would mean no invites for Teddy Garahan and Bill Ferguson,instead they would go to players that are higher ranked and willing to sign the revised contract.
I see major problems ahead.